Diablo® III

AC/CoB/SB Build MP10 w/vid

You are comparing your 1 spec to all specs that use zombie bears in 1/6 skill-slot. This is a very bias post.

Zoltun WILL TELEPORT THE HELL AWAY FROM YOU WITHIN SECONDS AND LAUGH IN YOUR FACE. Unless of course you use hex. But then you are using hex purely for 1 of 6 uber bosses and it useless in all other fights i feel.


Your spec having 3 active dps/non-buff skills, will mean that you will always have 2/6 useless skills for all 6ubers.

For elite faming in mp10, there are pure bear builds or hybrid ones with eg.WoS, all of them work. You cant just claim a build that works for you and trash every other bear spec, calling them 'epic fail'.

In my opinion, i think frozen is the hardest affix when you are trapped with sw on cd.

Lastly, I dont think Windforce on scoundrel is a good choice for any bear spec.
Edited by eGGiSM#1482 on 12/17/2012 11:26 AM PST
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12/17/2012 11:25 AMPosted by eGGiSM
Your spec having 3 active dps/non-buff skills, will mean that you will always have 2/6 useless skills for all 6ubers.


you math is wrong, at any given time I am only NOT using 1 of those skills.

you can spam AC + SB simultaneously

or AC + Bats simultaneously

AC is a DoT. a DoT does dmg simultaneously as your other attack, hence you are stacking two attacks.

this is not the case with hex. nor is it the case with WoS + Bears.

and yeah, its useless other than zoltun, 20% dmg rune or not.

Yes, i am sure windforce is not optimal for bears. i use it cause its better with WoS and AC. sorry i forgot to switch to the burizo for bear run but come on, did that really matter?

no.

and i am not bashing all bear builds, just pointing out obvious flaws, and i am not even saying my build is like, amazing, or anything. it doesnt perform as well against trash BUT doesnt run into the problems I found using bears with those crazy affixes. personally i want ppl to take this build and tweak it and make it their own, nothing more.

i find it a happy medium of dmg and survivability.

again, just saying "bears does more dmg therefore = better."

is just about the most dumb/ignorant thing ive ever heard. but i suppose you disagree.

thats fine. im sure you 'never' die to the affix in that video.
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you math is wrong, at any given time I am only NOT using 1 of those skills.

you can spam AC + SB simultaneously

or AC + Bats simultaneously

AC is a DoT. a DoT does dmg simultaneously as your other attack, hence you are stacking two attacks.


You are correct that dot does dmg simultaneously, but i dont think you can cast any of the 2 skills(ac,sb,fb) simultaneously. Every SB u cast is the opportunity cost of not casting the other 2, you cant cast any 2 of those skills at the same time(hence attacks per second), and acid rain doesnt stack(blob does though).

im sure you 'never' die to the affix in that video.


No doubt I've died to every affix b4. I just find frozen the hardest, since if get caught its almost a guaranteed death at high MP-facetanking. You stop attacking and lose all your life-leech.
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12/17/2012 01:11 PMPosted by eGGiSM
You are correct that dot does dmg simultaneously, but i dont think you can cast any of the 2 skills(ac,sb,fb) simultaneously


yes, that is correct... kinda.

obvioulsy you cant cast those two at the same time, how anyone would argue that is foolish.

moreover,

this is why a 90k dps wiz does more dmg than any of us because any CD spell can be cast without taking up a 'attack turn' - see SW for instance or Horrify.

The inherent problem in our class is we have NOTHING that compares to the wizard for dmg cooldown spells, other than dogs and maaaybe SH - vengeful spirit.

for instance.

explosive blast - 300% weapon dmg, can be SPAMMED SIMULATANEOUSLY WHILE USING ATTACKS.

diamond skin - diamond shards - 210% weapon dmg, can be spammed simultaneously as well

oh yeah, and i almost forgot... lightning armor!!! 100% passive weapon dmg and does additional dmg IF you crit.

thats 600% weapon dmg NOT including ANY dps spell they can use...

and you wonder why i go on rants... those are all permanently not on CD because of CM btw.

anyways, back to what you said. the closest thing we have to this ability are our dots.

grasp, AC, wall, Haunt...

and yes, throwing down an AC and then spamming Bats makes way more sense than spamming WoS and then spamming bears, does it not (ignoring RoE mana build up of course)? the dmg does overlap in that case no matter how you want to spin it. sure i did a cast of AC instead of SB, so? what if i am not in RANGE with CoB (or bears), therefore wasting an attack turn all together.

if you play around with SB enough you would know the souls take time to hit target so in that time you can stack AC on top and not interrupt the flow of souls, for lack of a better term.

as far a dmg stacking goes for lob blob. it doesnt matter if it stacks or not, lob blob doesnt really 'stack' it just creates more blobs which 'can' do dmg - BUT you lose the pool that forms over the ground for that 3s. i find that skill is great for tanking but nothing beats the proc chance of AR rune, not by a longshot.

and thats something you will NEVER get with bears/SB - actually causing CC to occur.

ps- if you are dying to freeze affix you need a dot to be casted, like AC, JUST before being frozen so that you can return life over the duration you are forzen (or freeze them in return).

yet ANOTHER reason why AC is a valuable skill to have regardless of whether not you spam it 100% of time or not, I dont think it needs to be seen as a dps no buff skill, it has far more utility than pure dps.

i def like the discussion though, you bring up very valid points.
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SayGa, how much was your belt? :3
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I tried this build on MP8 with a life leech scorn, and used horrify, and mana spiders. I didn't have a freeze belt.

Basically, CoB is an in your face skill that is constantly channeled. If you move it stops.

You have to be up close and personal to use it, however I found the upside to it was that it uses a lot less mana than bears, and could generally kill things as quick as bears.

The downside is the spells radius, it is very close so you have to be 2 or 3 times as close to monsters to use it, so you get bashed on a lot more. Also it instantly stops, so if a monster can move you or stun you, your life leech ends. This is not the case with bears. Bears can be cast and will continue on their track until they vanish.

The Horrify without freeze is a complete waste of time. You use it to buff your armor, the monsters run away for a second or two and come back.

I really don't see why someone couldn't use the same described skill set and eliminate CoB and use bears. Bears would give you extra reach, you could still freeze things with AC, and you could use WoS for distant enemies or to go through walls.

I have no doubt the OP has adapted a play style to use CoB, and more power to him. But the same play style could be used for bears, whether or not some of the specific situations the OP describes benefit CoB I couldn't comment on, however I am sure an equal number of situations arise where bears perform better than CoB. That's how this game works, there is never one solution that always works.
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I think this thread just made LS Skorns alot more expensive... dammit! :(
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I had honestly never tried CoB before, so I gave it a test run. I found I could get pretty good sustain since they cost 2/3 what bears cost. The weakness I found is that the radius is deceptively small that you are actually hitting and it does take a second or two to really ramp up to speed. It does do a healthy amount of damage and appeared to crit pretty often. If they tweaked the radius of the spell it could be a real bruiser.

Also I'm sure a lot of people knew this, but I found that my gear, which is set up is for LoH, doesn't really proc off of CoB. You really do need LS to make it work, much like a bears build would.
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really?
omg...
LS skorn is really a much better buy than a Cere. knife. because it can be shared by a wiz in the same account.

12/17/2012 07:41 PMPosted by Mugel
I think this thread just made LS Skorns alot more expensive... dammit! :(
Edited by Luffy#1946 on 12/18/2012 12:56 PM PST
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Ran a version of this with Medusa/VQ instead of SB/RoE. Very viable, although can be a pain getting the timing/AS right to run well, and given the punch SB can pack, SayGa's build is just easier to run.

Is def worthwhile using an SoS instead of the Helm for your Zuni set - replace with Visage - if you try this as a 1 hander/mojo setup, although the difference in LS at high MP levels is pretty massive, and the mana trickier to manage.

edit. CoB is not a Best on Ground build, saying it rules or sucks is a moot point. It's viable, it works, you will have stellar moments with it, and others you wish Bears were around. But it's solid, fun, and with practice can really dish out the hurt. If you've found a way to save 3 seconds on a MP10 Uber pack with bears, great for you. Use that. But don't dismiss CoB out of hand.
Edited by manvan#1853 on 12/19/2012 9:24 PM PST
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I know you had to make a last ditch effort to glorify the lifesteal skorn but its just not that great. Its getting out performed by 0dog and can't run bears as well as a knife.


Please elaborate with evidence. Have you run bears with skorn before at mp10? You might not like it, but that doesn't make it inferior.

I am seriously sicked of people posting and claiming their build/gear-choices are the best. It is all about preferences and playstyle. I myself have played and experienced with 1.2k int/ls/os EF and 1k int/os Sickle(i prefer black dmg). Imo they are all awesome. At the end, I settled myself using a ls skorn, since I do not want to skip/kite RD mobs in mp10. It worked for me and I cashed out my 1h weapons; but you don't see me going around saying 2h skorn is superior and is the way to go. It is not.

What I want to say is, every spec/gear has its place. You can promote what you think is the best for you , but don't go around thrashing others with unproven claims.
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Imp - I really have nothing more to say to you, and in all honestly wtf are you talking about?

my mobility has nothing to do with my death in the bears video and you know it. it has more to do with the fact I DO MORE DMG THAN YOU WITH SAME BEARS (I crit for 800k per bear and you crit for 400k - do the MATH, son.

also realize different enemies have different levels of HL and RD. something you SHOULD know, but fail to mention, cause you have no interest in NOT being an a-hole.

succubus are far more deadly than archers, just so you know.

I mean, I could show you me killing 3 hulking phasebeasts with RD and healthlink twice as fast as you and it would mean nothing cause frankly you clearly do not have an open mind.

garg is terrible btw, and BBV is JUST AS WORTHLESS. the fact you use GI on MP is a joke as well. you just dont have anything better to use on your passives, do you? you def arent using PtV...

and no need to insult AC, like I have said 400 times before (in this post), AC is not meant for the dmg, its meant for the cc, life returns, and yes, to SOME degree, the stacking dmg.

its also way better than garg buddy, hate to be the one to tell you that.

you are clearly incapable of seeing that bats @ 330% weapon dmg + AC (300% dot), being sustained over a longer time IS comparable to the dmg output of bears (since your ENTIRE arguement is built around hitting 1 target with all 3 bears - and critting on all of them).

thats fine, frankly i dont care. i also said before this isnt meant as direct comparison to bears btw, but some douche (much like how you are acting now) decided to tell me "gear is all that matters, and that bears are 100% better in EVERY way".

well clearly i debunct that. oh wait, no i didnt, cause i am using a skorn with 5.9% LS, right?

and just for the record, your awesome micro... is nothing special.

so do me a favor, before you crown yourself the 'man',

go find an elite with RD frozen waller. the affixes in that vid are a joke btw, and so are the enemy type, nice try though. why dont you go to same areas as me?

and your little cute rant about skorn being a joke its laughable. you could have avoided sounding like a moron there buts its fine, i will give you the pass since you have never even used one before that was any good.

At the end of the day, a skilled bear user will always be getting more out of their dps. Acid cloud dmg overlap is a joke. 150 poison dmg over 3 seconds is pitiful.
236% x3 hitting 3 targets(a perfect bear cast on a 3pack elite) is something to strive for.


1) you give yourself way too much credit as a 'skilled bear user'. frankly bears are the quintesential non-skill skill. good to know after 6 months of this game being out you still dont get that. thats why every (noob or otherwise) player uses it right - cause its takes so much 'skill' to just use one skill and only that skill.

child please... grow some chesthair before you make yourself out to be the most interesting man on the planet.

and yet you do that (hit all 3 targets) successfully, like, ONCE in that video. most of your time is spent running around getting in range, hitting only 1 target with one bear per attack. and your perfect bear cast is a pipe dream - any waller type will smoke you if you back yourself into a wall/corner and get trapped with some form of arcane beams in the mix.

you think cause i see one elite pack being killed that I will give you ANY creedence to your claims? no, no i wont.

I know you had to make a last ditch effort to glorify the lifesteal skorn but its just not that great. Its getting out performed by 0dog and can't run bears as well as a knife.


seriously that is the most pathetic statement of all time. that was not the intent of my thread and you know it. thanks again for being a total douche, good to know. honestly, my respect-o-meter for you just sunk to an extremely low level, and its not because what you say is true/false.

well played. merry christmas. see you in pvp.

ps- when i do kill you with SB, Haunt and AC, just for funzies, you will understand how powerful a skorn can be... and hopefully you will realize no matter how fast you attack (based on your IAS) you cannot avoid a 22yard AOE that freezes you simultaneously.

we will then see what good all that sick nastly bear micro you have been practicing for months does for you then.
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12/19/2012 06:46 PMPosted by ImpKing
i find it a happy medium of dmg and survivability.again, just saying "bears does more dmg therefore = better."is just about the most dumb/ignorant thing ive ever heard. but i suppose you disagree. thats fine. im sure you 'never' die to the affix in that video.


Dude, it is easy to find a medium between dmg and survivability. Your build isn't impressive because there are many combinations of skills that achieve this. A good mp10 build is one that is an effective use of your time.

The whole problem with this comparison with bears is that you are using the "tortoise" weapon. And the result is that the "slow and steady" build works better. Why wouldn't it?

With a knife, it is the opposite. I can caste bears without being a sitting duck. I can easily take on every type of affix without dying. Here is a clip from last night of easily killing an extra health reflect dmg pack on mp10.
http://www.twitch.tv/microfastsc2/c/1787049
Notice how fast I'm moving while attacking.
Its the same type of thing with waller, mortar, whatever you wanna say is hard with bears.

At the end of the day, a skilled bear user will always be getting more out of their dps. Acid cloud dmg overlap is a joke. 150 poison dmg over 3 seconds is pitiful.
236% x3 hitting 3 targets(a perfect bear cast on a 3pack elite) is something to strive for.
On the Ghom ubers, I can hold a spot where I am hitting both bosses with 3 all bears from each attack, not running out of bears. MIllions of dps.
For mp10 farming, the best you can sometimes hope for is lining up 2 bears to hit several elites. Still this is very good dmg.

I know you had to make a last ditch effort to glorify the lifesteal skorn but its just not that great. Its getting out performed by 0dog and can't run bears as well as a knife.


Hes sharing a fairly original build for peoples reference, not sure where the hate is from. But sure go troll speed ahead, its the internet after all.
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strange build
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SayGa View profile

Imp - I really have nothing more to say to you, and in all honestly wtf are you talking about?

my mobility has nothing to do with my death in the bears video and you know it. it has more to do with the fact I DO MORE DMG THAN YOU WITH SAME BEARS (I crit for 800k per bear and you crit for 400k - do the MATH, son.


all i got to say with this... damn, he put you in your place. bc yeah there is pretty simple math... your bears suck, his dont, ie reflect hurts alot more. im not one to normally bash but imp you've been nothing but arrogant and now it just bit you in the !@#
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@imp - i checked out the MP10 solo vid it was pretty sick. nice job. i will try to make a vid of all 3 too, but i am not sure if i can upload a 2 hr video to youtube, but i will try.

in either case perhaps we can then judge how much faster bears farm, as I am sure its faster, the question is... by how much, that's all.

btw, see how easy it is to not insult ppl and create a healthy discussion/comparison? your micro in the vid IS very good btw.

i still think that hex is the ONLY reason you can kill zoltun btw, you might disagree on that but after watching that fight he is always teleporting away from you unless you hexed him. and i think its funny you are runninig away kiting with mana spiders lol

good show though, i tip my cap to you.
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btw Sayga... let my barrow your Skorn XD
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I tried this build yesterday on 6 mp 9/10 uber games. Not exactly SayGa setup but something close.
1. This build is a very "diehard" build. Overall I died only twice and that's due to my stupid mistakes (like stepping on the center of laser beam).
2. CoB Crits are very high and is so much fun to use. With LS skorn, CoB rocks! No oom problem. No firebat soj needed. No wonder those Soj are so damn cheap! (damn..I totally wasted 500k gold on a 6/24/-10 firebat soj).
3. I dont have a freeze belt and AC is not very useful for me. For Uber games, I put in a Hex for obvious reasons. For farming I can use rabid dog with bad medicine instead, or dog sacifice with circle of life. (I heard Jungle Fortitude may not be working. Hopefully they got Bad med. working as expected....)
4. This build, without any dog and bear gear, is not expensive at all. The hard part is to avoid those overpriced LS Skorn and look for a cheap one. My skorn, around 90mil, is way cheaper than a comparable Manajuma C knife. Skorn price dropped quite abit lately. My friend even threw me a 1100 dps LS skorn for free...
Edited by Luffy#1946 on 12/20/2012 12:50 PM PST
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2. CoB Crits are very high and is so much fun to use. With LS skorn, CoB rocks! No oom problem. No firebat soj needed.


+1

i really want those points to resonate with ppl.

its not about using my EXACT build, rather just TRYING new things can make the game seem a lot fresher than its been, for me at least.

in addition, it gives you some perspective which is a plus as well.

@Luffy, yeah ditch AC, the build I listed in this thread actually came as a result of a lot of beta testing for 1.0.5.

it originally started out as a spirit build (not bats - just SB and AC) i used Mass Confusion instead of bats but found myself dying to hulking phasebeast elites too often and needed a solid close range skill to complement SB, AC with LS just doesn't get it done imo.

so yes bears was obvious choice, but that's why i decided to try the other melee skills (a lot of bat runes, Zombie wall/charger runes, etc. in the end i found that CoB just LASTED SO MUCH LONGER and you could sustain the dmg just standing there and facetanking.

i have no doubt bears does more dmg and is fantastic in a lot of ways, but my gut is telling me there are buffs coming down the pipeline and i dont like having to use a SoJ for MANA REDUCTION, when i can get one with SB dmg, use PTV, and crit for 1.3m with ONE (of 4) souls of SB (while still using bats for longer (even with PtV) because of RoE).
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