Diablo® III

"Finder Bonus" - solution to AH woes?

I don't claim credit for this idea - it's from someone else in the thread: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7415513636 . But I think the idea has enough merit that it deserves its own thread.

Completely different idea - how about a "finder bonus." Every item that drops has its affixes boosted (edit for this thread: or some other bonus, eg. additional affix) until you sell it. Once sold/traded to another account, the finder bonus permanently vanishes.

I don't know how much the finder bonus is - maybe each affix roll is boosted 10% (edit for this thread: or maybe an additional affix)? The idea would be to make it pretty possible to find upgrades over AH gear, since a less-than-perfect roll WITH finder bonus would often-enough be better than a perfect roll WITHOUT finder bonus. Can probably do some math to pick a good bonus amount.

The most godly players would have finder-bonus gear; you couldn't reach the very top just by buying on AH, because for any AH item, a self-found equivalent would be better due to the bonus.


(Note: I'm in favour of this idea in principle, but I think a random extra finder's affix on a certain percentage of found items would make things more interesting. A flat 10% bonus as originally suggested is pretty bland in comparison.)

I think this idea addresses a number of currently perceived problems:
- The idea that you are "forced" to go to the AH to get upgrades.
- People wanting a "self found" mode with better drops.
- People being able to real-money buy the best gear in the game without any effort (or buy gold for same).

Imagine, for example, that every rare and legendary/set spawned with an additional random affix, that disappeared as soon as it was traded / vendored / dropped / AHed. (The "finder" affix would have its own colour, so you'd know which one it was). This would have the following benefits:
- Better drops, without shifting the economy to match.
- More likely to find your own upgrades competitive to what is available on the AH.
- "Self found" advocates are happy, because their gear will be more competitive with that of AH users.
- AH users are happy, as due to the capriciousness of the RNG, the optimal gearing path will still be to use the AH most of the time. This will not make self found "better", it will just narrow the gap. Good items will still be sellable (if the "finder affix" is trash, you won't be losing anything by selling).
- The absolute best gear in the game _must_ be self found. Items in the AH cannot be the best possible. RMAH tycoons are not happy, as they can not just buy their way to the best items in the game (does anyone want to make this group happy?).

(Possible modification: allow the finder's affix to be preserved when items are traded unidentified.
Benefit: revitalised interest in the "unid-ed item" market (particularly legendaries), and face-to-face trading.)

I humbly forward this suggestion as worthy of the consideration of devs/designers.
Edited by Dogf#1248 on 12/30/2012 8:09 PM PST
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Totally get where you're coming from & support this idea 100%, OP

Great idea.
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Could the same be applied to crafted items? maybe a crafted bonus that disappears upon trading would help crafting get to level of usefulness it needs to be at
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Have the finder of the item get the 15% gold tax voided :D

Tax the flippers.
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Have the finder of the item get the 15% gold tax voided :D

Tax the flippers.


Liking this!
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Without shifting the economy? Really? People complain of struggling to sell stuff. Now those items need to be at least 10% better to be able to sell on AH. Harder for everyone.

AH users happy? Now if you want to buy an upgrade, it pretty much has to be BiS, simple GiS items, won't really be an upgrade will they. Now after spending 100's of millions my items won't be as good relatively as they would have been before this upgrade.

"Finding your own upgrades". Greatest fallacy ever. Sure, you might find ONE upgrade. Once you've found that upgrade, you'll be back in the same boat as before, without the option of turning to the AH.

Real money users? No one cares about them? How about every player who has sold an item or gold. How about the countless players who've spent money on getting an edge. Lastly, how about blizz, it's got to be a pretty good idea for them to consider losing their cut of the money spent, and sorry, but this isn't it.

What is the deal with people wanting to find their own upgrades? Make a new char, and make it using only the items you find (can be across all the chars on your account). You'll be finding upgrades, daily for weeks. Problem solved. Problem is, someone plays barb, spends a ton on gear, and then complains about not finding upgrades. All this system would do would create a system where you may perhaps find 1 or 2 upgrades and from that point, you won't find any more, nor would you be able to buy them.
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Without shifting the economy? Really? People complain of struggling to sell stuff. Now those items need to be at least 10% better to be able to sell on AH. Harder for everyone.

AH users happy? Now if you want to buy an upgrade, it pretty much has to be BiS, simple GiS items, won't really be an upgrade will they. Now after spending 100's of millions my items won't be as good relatively as they would have been before this upgrade.

"Finding your own upgrades". Greatest fallacy ever. Sure, you might find ONE upgrade. Once you've found that upgrade, you'll be back in the same boat as before, without the option of turning to the AH.

Real money users? No one cares about them? How about every player who has sold an item or gold. How about the countless players who've spent money on getting an edge. Lastly, how about blizz, it's got to be a pretty good idea for them to consider losing their cut of the money spent, and sorry, but this isn't it.

What is the deal with people wanting to find their own upgrades? Make a new char, and make it using only the items you find (can be across all the chars on your account). You'll be finding upgrades, daily for weeks. Problem solved. Problem is, someone plays barb, spends a ton on gear, and then complains about not finding upgrades. All this system would do would create a system where you may perhaps find 1 or 2 upgrades and from that point, you won't find any more, nor would you be able to buy them.


Perfect!
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12/23/2012 07:59 PMPosted by MarlboroRED
I seriously don't understand the obsession with "finding your own upgrades"

Wow, has the AH become so ingrained that this question is non-ironic?

Isn't finding upgrades by killing monsters the whole point of a hack & slash ARPG?

Anyway, I can think of a few reasons:
- You might not want to pay other players for items.
- You might think that participating in the AH is benefiting / empowering botters.
- You might realise that every time you buy an item off the AH, you're potentially skipping a bunch of drops that would have otherwise been upgrades. Your 5 hour wait until the next upgrade for that slot has suddenly jumped to 500 hours.
- You might consider being able to acquire gear suitable for facerolling the entire game (at MP0) with a few clicks and chump change to be kind of invalid. Replace MP0 with MP1, 2, 3, etc. as the game ages.
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People who want to find their own upgrades can do it just fine, AH or not. You can play this game without ever using the AH; nobody is forcing you to eat that apple on the table if you don't want to.

What baffles me are the requests for "AH-free option" and "Finder's Bonus". So if you don't want something, you have to deprive everyone else who do? Make some sense.

By the way, the loot drops in this game are perfectly fine, unless what you're striving for is perfection in every slot, every affix. You want that without using the AH, then you better play more than what you're doing.
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12/23/2012 10:59 PMPosted by Dogf
I seriously don't understand the obsession with "finding your own upgrades"

Wow, has the AH become so ingrained that this question is non-ironic?

Isn't finding upgrades by killing monsters the whole point of a hack & slash ARPG?



No. The point is finding LOOT by killing monsters. No one said you would be completely self sufficient. If everyone was, there'd be no item economy.

The idea is you find an item, it's a nice item but it's not for you. So, you take this item and you trade it (via the AH in D3, peer to peer in D2) for something useful for you.

That was always the point in Diablo.
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Great idea.

Could be a standalone stat that disappears once listed on the AH. This could be taken from the wide assortment of current stats, for example:

+6% cold damage
+25% gold find
+15% versus elites

These types of stats could put an item 'over the top' as it were, in making them viable to wear once - and would make for a wide/new diversification of loot. Every item would feel unique.
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Wow, has the AH become so ingrained that this question is non-ironic?

Isn't finding upgrades by killing monsters the whole point of a hack & slash ARPG?

Anyway, I can think of a few reasons:
- You might not want to pay other players for items.
- You might think that participating in the AH is benefiting / empowering botters.
- You might realise that every time you buy an item off the AH, you're potentially skipping a bunch of drops that would have otherwise been upgrades. Your 5 hour wait until the next upgrade for that slot has suddenly jumped to 500 hours.
- You might consider being able to acquire gear suitable for facerolling the entire game (at MP0) with a few clicks and chump change to be kind of invalid. Replace MP0 with MP1, 2, 3, etc. as the game ages.


Everything said here = correct.

The only ones who'll tell you differently, are the AH vendors/flippers.
Edited by Otis#1467 on 12/23/2012 11:44 PM PST
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Great idea.

Could be a standalone stat that disappears once listed on the AH. This could be taken from the wide assortment of current stats, for example:

+6% cold damage
+25% gold find
+15% versus elites

These types of stats could put an item 'over the top' as it were, in making them viable to wear once - and would make for a wide/new diversification of loot. Every item would feel unique.


Nice!
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Wow, has the AH become so ingrained that this question is non-ironic?

Isn't finding upgrades by killing monsters the whole point of a hack & slash ARPG?

Anyway, I can think of a few reasons:
- You might not want to pay other players for items.
- You might think that participating in the AH is benefiting / empowering botters.
- You might realise that every time you buy an item off the AH, you're potentially skipping a bunch of drops that would have otherwise been upgrades. Your 5 hour wait until the next upgrade for that slot has suddenly jumped to 500 hours.
- You might consider being able to acquire gear suitable for facerolling the entire game (at MP0) with a few clicks and chump change to be kind of invalid. Replace MP0 with MP1, 2, 3, etc. as the game ages.


Everything said here = correct.

The only ones who'll tell you differently, are the AH vendors/flippers.


This was the case in Diablo 2 as well. The ONLY difference is you had to do it via peer to peer. They've streamlined the process in Diablo 3 and made it hassle free.

You have the option of playing completely self found if you wish (like I do in HC) just like you could in Diablo 2 if you wanted. You could avoid trading entirely and just play by yourself.

Willpower. Thats all it takes.
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Everything said here = correct.

The only ones who'll tell you differently, are the AH vendors/flippers.


This was the case in Diablo 2 as well. The ONLY difference is you had to do it via peer to peer. They've streamlined the process in Diablo 3 and made it hassle free.

You have the option of playing completely self found if you wish (like I do in HC) just like you could in Diablo 2 if you wanted. You could avoid trading entirely and just play by yourself.

Willpower. Thats all it takes.


True enough. I do it that way, so it's completely possible. The game needs some serious TLC and some interesting additions to keep more players interested though.

What could it hurt to add something new and optional?
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This is actually reasonable as long as the bonuses are not extreme, maybe 5% more DPS, 10% more armor.

Properties are hard, 7.7 pickup radius? The game engine may not be able to handle that without massive recoding.

A far better suggestion than Bind on Equip or its variation at any rate.
Edited by Wtflag#1258 on 12/24/2012 12:08 AM PST
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Why does everyone keep pushing the argument that Diablo has always been about trading items when D1 and D2 were perfectly well beatable with self-found gear? In over a decade of playing Diablo games, I had not had to trade, EVER, before hitting the Belial brick wall. It seems to me this whole MMORPG generation will never know the true virtues of a real hack-and-slash.

The OP's suggestion certainly has merit, as well as some of the comments on the thread. I'd like to throw in one more - personalized items. Give Haedrig the skill to custom fit an item just for your hero, giving it an overall 5%-10% bonus to all stats, or an extra random stat, or maxing one stat, but either way rendering it unusable to anyone else in Sanctuary. Once per item, of course.

Then, when it comes to upgrades, you will then have a choice: boost it now, but then pay full premium for the upgrade; or wait up and save for the upgrade, but get at least some of your gold back on the sale. Personally, I've found that by the time I save for an upgrade, the item I have has already devalued into oblivion (I farmed for 200 hours with a 200k Manticore, FFS!) I would rather just boost the item once and use the extra stats until I can save up.
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