Diablo® III

Is there any point to farming higher mp?

01/01/2013 05:52 PMPosted by KillerElite
It simply is not possible to run archon faster than blizzard. Of course you should be able to run those 3 areas in around 8 minutes. It is a waste if you hit a highly populated area with 0 stacks. Core takes less than a minute to run and will give you anywhere from 1-4 stacks. Tower level 1 is the same. I pre purchased all my gear and spent all of my paragon levels farming low mp and timed every single run to work out what is the most efficient build. With archon you are forced to stop to attack and with blizzard you cast a snow storm and keep running. My average archon exp after many many many runs was 60m exp/hour. My average blizzard exp/hour is 70m. I don't know why you insist my runs are too slow. I am interested in seeing one of these videos you are using as a comparison. I would like to run the same route using blizzard and see what the results are. Please link one.


I ddint say that its possible for archon to be faster than Blizz, I said your run times are too slow for a blizz spec (which should be faster than archon but it isnt).

Post #41, I already linked one. The dude in the vid did core and tower1 before he hit the 3 areas I mentioned, thats 5 areas in under 8 mins, btw he only has 300k dps.
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01/04/2013 11:56 PMPosted by Shandlar
You don't need to hit monsters to trigger DF. If you hit 1 monster and 4 barrels, DF is triggered. Much less pressure.


Wow, that changes everything lol. All those 8x table rooms in keeps can be used to re-up deep freeze? You really got me thinking now... Deep freeze gives me like 16.7% boost to paper dps atm, but 15% more cc means more CM, likely meaning a higher multiplier as well. Even a very small multiplier increase would quickly mean at least a 5% higher bonus than bone chill.

Boozer doing the MP7 run so fast is probably proof enough tbh. I'm still going to be disceplined and wait for a large enough sample size of my current set up though before changing anything.


Shandlar,

I remember asking you why bone chill over deep freeze and you said it was no contest. I was so confused since you didn't explain the reasoning. I fell in love with deep freeze every since the first time I used it. And people that I advise to use it, love it as well.

Bone chill wins hands down for DPS. But in terms of just "usability" deep freeze is DPS/AP regen/CD regens all in 1. Especially with the highly condensed areas we choose to farm in. It is basically up 90% of the time.

Please test @ your leisure. It is awesome.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-6wqqZfdKw

And this guy only has 300k dps. Even a good WD (the slowest class in D3) can do alkaizer in 8 mins.

Alkazier runs dont include skycrown, but since Ximae skipped crater2 I reckon the clear times should be similar, maybe add a minute to that but 9mins is still much faster than 30mins.


I have been in the forum all weekend using my iphone since I was not near my computer and I just went back to look at the video that you linked. This guy skipped a lot of map areas. No wonder he did it in 8 minutes. I did chuckle a bit to myself when the second person who commented on the youtube video told him that a blizzard build was faster. Nice try but that video does not prove anything.


What exactly did he skip? Thats the alkaizer route that everyone runs for XP.

He didnt clear keeps2 but its impossible to do that when you hit a dead end, backtracking is just stupid because you are walking around killing nothing backtracking so there is really no benefit in doing that.
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It is curently 6:39 EST and in about 2.2 hours this video should finish uploading and I will be at work by then.

http://youtu.be/sGEgMuLb6_M

Youtube is really messed up sometimes. It should not take anywhere near that amount of time to upload 1.8GB.

Anyway, it shows the 7 areas that I normally clear being completed in 14 minutes which you apparently think is too long, tasteofdeath. I know that exp earned is relative to the gear you have on but the video shows me earning 19m exp in 14 minutes. Without taking into account id time and game load time, that is 81m exp an hour best case scenario. I don't see how you can think that an archon build can run this any faster. As I said before, this build is for exp only since some monsters die off screen and I know it is a bit off topic but I feel like I need to defend myself from your comments.

BTW, I did not skip any map areas and I even died once from one of those little green exploding buggers. My fastest time for this run was 13 minutes and my typical time is 15 minutes. 15 minutes is only because I tend to go a bit slower so too many monsters don't die off screen.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4lbONr9MTE

80m/hr is typical for MP0 archon, you need to go back and read my posts again, I never said that archon is better than Blizzard for xp, I said somehow you are not doing it any faster than an archon spec'ed for xp runs on MP0 with your blizz spec.
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Shandlar,

I remember asking you why bone chill over deep freeze and you said it was no contest. I was so confused since you didn't explain the reasoning. I fell in love with deep freeze every since the first time I used it. And people that I advise to use it, love it as well.

Bone chill wins hands down for DPS. But in terms of just "usability" deep freeze is DPS/AP regen/CD regens all in 1. Especially with the highly condensed areas we choose to farm in. It is basically up 90% of the time.

Please test @ your leisure. It is awesome.


I admit last time I tested it was using my old int/str duncraig and my crap WH. Before my CD rings too. Means I was 186 CD. It really didn't occur to me until right now when novice made me put it into my dps calc that 15% CC is actually more than 15% paper dps now that I'm running 359% CD.

Definitely a bit of a facepalm moment. Obviously a 17% paper dps boost AND a sheet multiplier boost by upping my CM triggers by a massive amount will exceed a flat 15% boost if you can keep deep freeze up. I'll see how easy that is, but shouldn't be too bad.

Edit: The more I think about this the more certain I am that I'm going to have to eat crow. There's just not going to be any downside to deep freze. 12 seconds is enough to kill anything except extra health yellows in MP8, and even then its only 16 or 18 seconds. Means at worst those will be a push and die at the same speed.

Champions on the other hand are going to melt, and the increase in DPS should be easily offset by a huge increase in diamond shards uptime against RD. I have been considerably obtuse lol.
Edited by Shandlar#1961 on 1/5/2013 12:41 AM PST
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Guess i'll direct this to this thread here.

Just did "Alkazier" run on MP7:

Core - Tower Damned 1 - Tower cursed 1 - Arreat 2 - Keeps 2 - Korsik - Rakkis

Unofficial Time = 14 mins

Not 100% clear, but did not go out of my way to kill things. Did not stop to loot much. Died once.

I'm uploading a video as we speak. Update on it later :)


O_O

14 mins is really fast for that route on MP7.
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O_O

14 mins is really fast for that route on MP7.


Thats what I was thinking. If he got 40 elites and 1000 total kills from such a run I'd be willing to buy him a gold medal. That would be well in excess of my 4 legends/hour goal.
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Exactly what I was thinking all along. I've been its biggest advocator (DF that is) but noone seemed to use it at all.

Totally didn't understand, didn't see too much downside. Thought I was out of my mind. But it was working for me always.

In regards to the MP7 run I did today, I honest didn't do anything overly different. Sometimes I take extra time to clear everything in K2. But in this run I back tracked once cause I wanted more packs.

I'd say total elites would be close to 40, but I didn't keep track so no way of knowing unless counting manually.

I found 2 legendaries on the run. 1 2H staff and a mempo (rolled STR sold for 4m) so pretty good run !
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boozor: it does make sense in higher mp levels, deep freeze is the next best thing for us cm/ww or cm/sns seeing how groups don't die as fast and how df can be almost perma up there. hell this thread made me want to use DF. always been a cold snap lover @_@

btw boozor, i missed both chant force, the ones i showed you. the 95m one disappeared. prolly owner took it down or something. the one up for bid, i missed out due to not waking up. current one in line is priced by its funny owner at 300m lulz
Edited by pichapiegal on 1/5/2013 12:56 AM PST
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Deep Freeze was terrible last time I tried it. It boosts my sheet dps 13% and I kill way slower. It's not even close to bone chill. Maybe the more crit damage you have the better your results will be.
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DF is also for defense, higher Crit = faster CDs, it's a sweet balanced skill, I never though of going back to BC since I started using DF. It allows you to run higher MP than what you actually can.
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@ Picha - Sorry about the forces' its ok, they will pop up again. Now you know the line... 95m is buy buy buy :)

01/05/2013 01:16 AMPosted by LordSandwich
Deep Freeze was terrible last time I tried it. It boosts my sheet dps 13% and I kill way slower. It's not even close to bone chill. Maybe the more crit damage you have the better your results will be.


What it lacks in DPS perhaps, it makes up in utility. OFC bone chill will win hands down 100% of the time DF is not activated. But if DF is activated. And it is a lot of the time. Having 79.5% CC in my case is ridiculously GOOD.
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Your making me want to run glass cannon =(...

I dont think I have the crit chance for it. 2.77 and 62.5 isn't going to be a strong enough freeze without evo if i'm using bone chill...hmmm

I just need a new source. 10-12k more dps and another 9k from paragon. I wanna find a pathing/MP combination and get enough dps to do said pathing/mp combination for a full 4 legendaries an hour average.

Going to be tough, but I'll find it.

You should try Scrondel Hysteria 10%+ dmg 3 second elapse with a 2 second cooldown after. Mine has a cold soj and chance to freeze ammy. At a worst case its 6% more dmg on average but if you have gaps in battle it can be more because your cooldown will be spent on deadtime. Helps to apply coldblood also. I hit 303k with that and deep freeze now. I think i hit 360k with my sword not counting the energy twister buff nor my 14 elite. Anyways. mp10 is great for gg groups. I am getting better performance with monks, barbs groups on mp10 then solo mp5-8. For instance with a barb resist/armor shout i can run like 900 loh mp10 everywhere and only switch on life leech dagger for reflect dmg. When we have 2 monks, 1 can run attack speed mantra and bam i am in the 2.5 breakpoint.

People have figured out its better to run a2, rakkis, k2 over and over for exp (no core, no td1, no field). Your exp bonus gear > stacking nv for exp bonus

Edit: removed bad run idea.
Edited by RulerEric#1854 on 1/5/2013 5:04 PM PST
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It is curently 6:39 EST and in about 2.2 hours this video should finish uploading and I will be at work by then.

http://youtu.be/sGEgMuLb6_M

Youtube is really messed up sometimes. It should not take anywhere near that amount of time to upload 1.8GB.

Anyway, it shows the 7 areas that I normally clear being completed in 14 minutes which you apparently think is too long, tasteofdeath. I know that exp earned is relative to the gear you have on but the video shows me earning 19m exp in 14 minutes. Without taking into account id time and game load time, that is 81m exp an hour best case scenario. I don't see how you can think that an archon build can run this any faster. As I said before, this build is for exp only since some monsters die off screen and I know it is a bit off topic but I feel like I need to defend myself from your comments.

BTW, I did not skip any map areas and I even died once from one of those little green exploding buggers. My fastest time for this run was 13 minutes and my typical time is 15 minutes. 15 minutes is only because I tend to go a bit slower so too many monsters don't die off screen.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4lbONr9MTE

80m/hr is typical for MP0 archon, you need to go back and read my posts again, I never said that archon is better than Blizzard for xp, I said somehow you are not doing it any faster than an archon spec'ed for xp runs on MP0 with your blizz spec.


Not sure if I would say that 80m exp/hour is typical but he did do a super fast run. I might give that a try with a cain set. I have about 1.8 paragon levels to go to hit the mf cap.
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@tasteofdeath, what we mean with skipping areas is that he did little clearing of some maps, which is simply not routing them correctly. like not doing the square in keeps 2 or not going to the deadend on crater2 and then respawining backwards. that is as efficent xp wise, no backtrackinrg, but makes for longer runs which is better for loot.

when i have time ill do some more mp8 runs whith my new dps, woohoo im at 157k now!
Edited by ximae#1789 on 1/5/2013 6:10 AM PST
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Very interesting.....I run the sb/bliz specs from time to time...It's def a nice change up, even though I can easy mp 3 in archon and have to switch to mp1 for sb/bliz......
I'd really like to know how you guys are clearing the high mp runs so fast though....I run sns with 147k dps and it takes me at least 10 minutes longer to do mp 7 than what it takes you guys!!!
Edited by Vikesfan353#1980 on 1/5/2013 10:55 AM PST
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01/05/2013 01:43 AMPosted by Boozor
Having 79.5% CC in my case is ridiculously GOOD.


FINALLY! Some recognition for Deep Freeze!

I've loved this rune ever since Booz turned me onto it. Having played around with it back in my old CM/prism armor days.. I probably buffed to like 55% crit chance and always thought it was pretty awesome, but did not outweigh Bone Chill for me back then. Now however, at 3.01 APS and 61% base crit chance.. Deep Freeze is out of control. 3.01 APS with 76% critical hit chance and 230k DPS (buffed) for 95% of my farming run is unparalled. Literally allows me to fly through Act III runs on the higher MP's... especially if I'm solo. Solo with my freeze scoundrel it gets a little disgusting at 79% critical hit chance. Flying man, flying through those mobs.. elites or not. Like Shandlar said:

01/05/2013 12:33 AMPosted by Shandlar
12 seconds is enough to kill anything except extra health yellows in MP8, and even then its only 16 or 18 seconds.


Basically sums it up. Deep freeze and high crit % = cruise control bro. It's like if you could farm inside a Cadillac Escalade instead of in a Ford Escort. Which would you choose? Just try it for yourself at 3 APS/60CC%.. you won't be disappointed :D
Edited by Trayen#1284 on 1/5/2013 11:39 AM PST
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lol what a bunch of noobs.;p

https://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6397860167?page=2

Only time to use Bone Chill is ubers or group/team farming and only one of you need it, preferably one with lowest DPS.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 1/5/2013 1:41 PM PST
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Man deep freeze does absolutely nothing for me. I dont find it to be utilitarian at all. Do you permafreeze yellows with it? When I put on Lacuni Prowlers and hit a frenzy shrine, I still dont permafreeze yellows. Even if I could permafreeze them, I dont think it would have much impact on my farming. I dont spend more than a few seconds chasing them around and a single yellow is never a threat to kill me. Blues on the other hand are practically always locked down for me with 2.5 attack speed.

I find that teleport has far more utility. It's almost impossible to die with it. You can instantly be in an optimal position for freeze. I dont think I'll be able to drop it until I get max movement speed.
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@LordSandwich: I might kindly point on that you're at 2.51aps, while everyone else discussing this is at 2.73+aps. And that's a huge difference! You can't really permafreeze yellows at 2.51aps without using Cold Snap.
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