Diablo® III

Stone of Jordan question.

I've never really been a fan of this ring, but I can see the benefit of cold damage, elite damage and resource cost reduction on Hammer of the Ancients. Most of the upgrades to my gear would cost a bil plus at this point, so I might as well focus on something else for the time being.

What should I shoot for minimums on rings? 6% cold damage, is -4 to resource cost on Hammer good enough or do I need the full 5?
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If you're using it for HOTA, then you don't really need to get +cold damage. As for what -fury you should go for, it's not an exact science. Technically if you crit every time and have -5 then you can just tape your HOTA keybind down but in reality you don't need 100% crit or a lot of -fury cost. If you're hitting more than one target it's pretty much always going to be rage positive in the long run, and if you're using bash-punish or frenzy-maniac then you'll get some fury refreshing those every few hammers as well.

IMO, take a look at what you can afford. If you're going to use the SOJ for WW as well then cold damage is a solid idea, but it will be expensive. IIRC 6% cold 30% elite -5 HOTA rings are 200m or so, maybe more. That goes down quite a bit if you don't need the cold damage.
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Well I got one regardless. Seems like a pretty good one too.

5% cold damage
29% elite damage
14 Max fury
-5 Hammer of the Ancients

I tried MP10 Ghom and wasn't overly impressed with using HoTA build. Still feels like he took awhile to kill. And I tried the same ring with WW and killed him faster. Maybe my Main hand is holding back Hammer of the Ancients somewhat. Finding a better one is proving to be rather difficult though.

Edit: Also the price of rings with stats like these seem to have gone up quite a lot from that. I payed a bit more than I would have liked for this, but at least I have a good one as an option now if I want to use it.
Edited by Darkinsanity#1468 on 1/9/2013 1:12 AM PST
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If you're using it for HOTA, then you don't really need to get +cold damage. As for what -fury you should go for, it's not an exact science. Technically if you crit every time and have -5 then you can just tape your HOTA keybind down but in reality you don't need 100% crit or a lot of -fury cost. If you're hitting more than one target it's pretty much always going to be rage positive in the long run, and if you're using bash-punish or frenzy-maniac then you'll get some fury refreshing those every few hammers as well.

IMO, take a look at what you can afford. If you're going to use the SOJ for WW as well then cold damage is a solid idea, but it will be expensive. IIRC 6% cold 30% elite -5 HOTA rings are 200m or so, maybe more. That goes down quite a bit if you don't need the cold damage.


6% cold, 30% elites -5HOTA only 200mil. NO way. Assuming you can even find one, that ring will be 600 700 mil starting.
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There are several Cold SOJ version that are bank for Barbs

Hota Cold SOJ, WW Cold SOJ, and Cold Weapon Throw SOJ.

any one of the three above with 6% Cold, 30%, -5 will be be hundreds of millions even tittering on close to a billion. If you find anyone one of the rings for 200 mil, I would buy it just to flip it.

If you are lucky 200 million will get you -5/-6 cold, elite 26 to 27, and -4 thru -5 fury. 200 million. Lastly, if you plan on using Hota build with WW then Cold is definitely worth it.
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I'm still wondering why the HoTA build isn't working great for me. I guess it really is my main hand, finding a higher damage one with similar stats seems practically impossible though. My hits with HoTA range from 600-800 but that must be mostly my Echoing Fury, and then in between I get some hits for 100-200k. That must be what is slowing me down.

It took over a minute to kill Ghom on MP10, and so far my WW build is still better.

Edit: Guess I'd have to give up some crit damage on my other weapon, but getting a 1200+ dps weapon has to at least more than make up for loss of some crit damage.
Edited by Darkinsanity#1468 on 1/9/2013 11:50 AM PST
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01/09/2013 11:48 AMPosted by Darkinsanity
My hits with HoTA range from 600-800 but that must be mostly my Echoing Fury, and then in between I get some hits for 100-200k.


That really surprises me... I don't understand how that can be possible. I don't see hits under 200k even with my dagger OH, and my MH hits for 600k-1.1 mil. Obviously I am not close to you in gear. Are you using Bash - Punish? It helps a lot.
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01/09/2013 12:58 PMPosted by VeePow
My hits with HoTA range from 600-800 but that must be mostly my Echoing Fury, and then in between I get some hits for 100-200k.


That really surprises me... I don't understand how that can be possible. I don't see hits under 200k even with my dagger OH, and my MH hits for 600k-1.1 mil. Obviously I am not close to you in gear. Are you using Bash - Punish? It helps a lot.


Haha it surprised me too, shouldn't be possible specially with the Stone of Jordan's 29% extra damage. I'll have to do it again to see later today, but it definitely felt like Ghom took much longer than he should have. I do lose quite a bit of paper dps by switching to the Stone of Jordan, I lose a bit less if I switch out the right ring though. It goes from 275k to about 230k or so.
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The damage range on your EF is pretty low, 900 top end is holding back your HOTA damage considerably.
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Ahh that makes a bit more sense. I never really noticed that on a weapon or how it would effect things. I got that Echoing Fury for 600 mil. Hmm guess I should upgrade both weapons then...that's going to be fairly expensive.

Edit: Looking at other Echoing Fury weapons they go over a thousand but not much more than that, does that really make that much of a difference?
Edited by Darkinsanity#1468 on 1/9/2013 5:40 PM PST
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After some more testing I am able to do quite a bit of damage using the HoTA build. Killed MP10 Ghom in about a minute using Overpower with Killing spree instead of Warcry and Impunity. Not sure if I would be able to use it yet do solo MP10 ubers yet though, not with the HoTA build anyways. I'm fairly sure I can with my WW build.

So I'm not really sure where my next upgrades should be. I guess though it's expensive upgrading both my main hand and my Echoing Fury is a direction I can go. I would like more hp too, but pretty hard to get any good upgrades there.
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Dark - out of curiosity how much did you pay for that soj? You should be criting much higher than 600-800 (i am already at 700-1.1m with lower paper dps. Your echoing is solid actually when criting think its more the offhand that is pulling it back for hota due to low weapon dmg
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Lol it was fairly expensive. Just over a bil, and yeah I was kinda wondering my self if that was really that big a deal with the Echoing Fury. I guess I could upgrade at some point but I agree that the non-echoing fury weapon is holding me back.
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Lol Ok, i bought mine at ard 360m which is -1 hota short. I bought it in a rush also cos i was eager to try a hota/ww build so i thought i might have overpaid. Your echoing is good, I am actually trying to find a similar one to replace my existing but it's so exx ;). Check d3rawr, an echoing with both crit and soc would give higher hammer crits which is what you want when hammering at full fury
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To put it in perspective. Weapon dmg + CD are very important for hota. With a SOJ my crits are between 1mil and 1.5mil with an attack speed over 2.2aps

Edit: to be clear that is against elites
Edited by Crypter#1856 on 1/9/2013 7:46 PM PST
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they def. come in handy!
i have a lowball cold soj im willing to sell..

5% cold
15 max fury
elite damage 22%
bash damage 7%

currently sitting on my dh if u want to view http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Morph-6680/hero/18870841

will sell / or trade for a comparable cold, frenzy or ww version..
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Can someone explain to me the benefits of the SOJ? I mean, I found one today and decided to ID it and take a chance. Came out with the following:

5% Fire
+13 Fury
+23% Elites
+6% Frenzy Dmg

So...just an avg. roll for a fire SOJ. I use frenzy as my main fury boost, so that was helpful. With all the added fire, I decided to switch from REND to WhirlWind and go with Volcanic Eruption. I'm not certain whether the ring is helping that attack or not, but I assume so.

So, I go out and start hitting stuff. Keep in mind, I'm also using FireWalkers and leaving a trail of fire. My sword has NO Fire dmg, so I decided to buy a cheap Axe of Sankis with 800 DPS and (Vs. 1200+ for my sword) and see what happens. Wasn't expecting much.

GEEZUS! I'm like a ball of inferno walking around! Walked into act 1 Weeping Hallow and started using WW and there were burning parts of demons hanging all over trees, houses, fences...it looked pretty spectacular. That low DPS was actually holding up quite nicely with all the bonuses. Wonder what a good one of those would do.

So, I put my sword back on and still getting flaming body parts all over the place just using Frenzy! My sword has no fire dmg and Frenzy isn't a fire attack? Not sure what's up with that. The stone just makes whatever you hold graphically do that kind of dmg?

Anyway, still trying to figure out the best use of this ring and weapon. I can tell you with bloodthirst active and WW/Volcano skill you can just sit and spin through elites with full health always. Its like looking at a miniature ball of sun erupting.
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While Stones of Jordan are great (the damage from one of these is absolutely fantastic against elites), the notion of having HOTA up all the time is largely a myth with just -5 Reduction. You just can't pull that off since the proc coefficient on HOTA->Smash is .8. So even with a -5 Reduction, 15 Fury Generated by Into the Fray, and 100% Critical Chance you will still lose fury since 20% of the time because HOTA won't proc Into the Fray.

With that said, a SOJ is still good enough that you can drop your primary fury generator and rely on say Run like the Wind. The point is that you still have to have some fury generation of some sort if you are just using a -5 Reduction SOJ. More HOTA reduction and passive fury generation is needed to truly go infinite.
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The elemental damage portion of SOJ is poorly worded. It ADDS 6% of your current weapon damage as fire. Meaning if you swing for 1000 weapon damage, it will at 60 fire damage. This only goes off the physical portion of your weapon damage though, so if you have a weapon that's 300-500 phys and then 200-600 cold, it only applies to the 300-500.

Also, Axe of Sankis only buffs actual fire SKILLS, so it won't change your SOJ's fire damage. But yes, the elemental damage from SOJ is very noticeable, on my cold SOJ there's constantly ice shards flying everywhere and mobs tinted blue.

Ahh that makes a bit more sense. I never really noticed that on a weapon or how it would effect things. I got that Echoing Fury for 600 mil. Hmm guess I should upgrade both weapons then...that's going to be fairly expensive.

Edit: Looking at other Echoing Fury weapons they go over a thousand but not much more than that, does that really make that much of a difference?


The issue is the speed of EF. It ranged from 1.41 (lowest APS no AS bonus) to 1.55 (or so, with .25 APS bonus and IAS on the weapon). While the dps is very high the actual damage range will not be as high, and the damage range is what HOTA is figured off of.

For example, my MH is a 1.2 APS 1130 dps mace. My mace has a higher damage range than a 1300 dps EF, just because it's slower.
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While Stones of Jordan are great (the damage from one of these is absolutely fantastic against elites), the notion of having HOTA up all the time is largely a myth with just -5 Reduction. You just can't pull that off since the proc coefficient on HOTA->Smash is .8. So even with a -5 Reduction, 15 Fury Generated by Into the Fray, and 100% Critical Chance you will still lose fury since 20% of the time because HOTA won't proc Into the Fray.

That is assuming you have a single, stationary target that isn't attacking you at all. In reality, into the fray is far from your only source of fury 99% of the time.
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