Diablo® III

Seven Years in Sanctuary

Wow. I stomached about 20 pages worth of this hate fest before throwing up in my mouth a little. Seeing as I had German barbecue yesterday, I'm slightly traumatized now.

What gets me is not the hating on Jay, Blizzard or D3. There are fine, justified subjective reasons for not liking any of them, indeed even intensely disliking them. What does get me, however, is the commentary and analysis offered by total idiots, most of whom will never - never - be offered a job at any games company, let alone Blizzard. At best you people would be qualified to be the QA department water boys or something, eliciting little bouts of laughter from the dev team when mentioning your various "ideas" (though in your heads you're all probably more like Will in that Good Will Hunting movie - a yet-to-be-discovered misunderstood genius; 'tis the American way I suppose).

Here's the thing: there's an inverse correlation between the likelihood that you'll bash Jay's role on the D3 project, and your understanding of the games development process. Even if you dislike the game, but are not a total bumbling idiot, you will at most settle for saying "game was !@#$, but good luck in the future", or something to that effect. The more detail you add in your analysis about Jay's role (and in some cases the game itself, some of you really are clueless), the less you know what you're talking about. Even other team members don't have the full picture.

Let's start by talking facts. By any objective standard of measurement, Diablo 3 is a good game. Just looking at its aggregated scores with reviewers, it's done better than most games. The sheer polish of things, the look-and-feel of the game, the accessibility... it's all very, very competent handiwork. If you're so much of a hater that you don't even acknowledge that, then the joke's on you. Some will then proceed to say that they don't care about all of that, because they take issue with something else. Well that is by definition a pet issue, and if you don't understand how little your one piece of anecdotal evidence means to the universe, the joke is once again on you. Now, I mention this stuff just to remind people how many games out there are god-awfully terrible, and how many good games - games that you probably like better than you claim to like D3 - don't even get their basics right, or at least not as right as the D3 team did. This matters, because some of you claim that Jay is somehow not good enough to do his job, but let me tell you that nobody in this industry would turn down an interview with Jay if he'd sent over a copy of D3 as a part of his job application. If you try to make the case that D3 is somehow an objectively bad game in general, considering where the average level of quality is in this industry, you are an absolute cretin.

As for the argument that it's simply not a very good Diablo game, I'm sure there are fine, debatable points there. But here comes the next problem with bashing Jay; he's not alone in this project. Sure, it makes logical sense that as Director he should be responsible, and this is indeed something that Blizzard more or less encourages by putting his face on the game in this fashion. The fact is, though, that games are large team efforts, and even outside the team there are loads of stakeholders that have one million opinions a day (and yes, that includes you ingrates). What someone like Jay has to do is to balance the interests of all the stakeholders, sometimes ticking strategic boxes that other people are forcing him to tick. It's not impossible that at some point, someone high above Jay's pay grade descended from Heaven and gave him a list of commandments, for example:

1.) We need to expand the user base. How can you increase accessibility and make the game less frightening and complex so that more people want to play?
2.) We need to jump on the micro-transaction train. Find some way to make that happen.
3.) Piracy is super-duper bad. We're going always-on with this one! Hey, it worked for Starcraft!
4.) (Etc.)

...and then he'd be expected to get all those boxes ticked in ways that these suits would feel happy with. And if you think that Jay doesn't care about the community, wait til' you hear what the bean counters think about you.

Oh, and let's not forget that the game passed through Blizzard's internal vetting process many times before launching; the rest of the company are behind Jay - making it even more dumb to single him out.

Get it? Like hell you do. If you take away one thing, just one thing from reading this, please take away that you don't get it. There are so many factors involved in the day-to-day of designing and building games that you don't get. There are almost as many political issues that you don't get - and that Blizzard will be even less likely to tell you about than the actual development woes. And every time you presume to comment on what Jay's qualities are, what he is personally responsible for, and how "easy" it would have been to do better than him, then you are once again making yourself the punchline of a joke that you simply don't have the mental facilities or the knowledge to understand. And, more importantly, you are too stupid and too arrogant to know that you don't understand it.

Good luck Jay. You've made a better game than 90% of us would, and a better Diablo than most.

Sincerely,

/A Creative Director on another very old and well-respected franchise
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01/21/2013 10:37 PMPosted by NeoDraven
don't even get me started ever since this games release its been a nightmare, vendors where never told the game was "Online To Play" so you had a huge chunk of players who don't have internet having to file for refunds or store credit.


Who doesn't have home internet access in 2012 (now 2013)? Furthermore, who has a computer capable of playing modern video games and does not have a home internet connection? That blows my mind.

I'm not a fan of the online-only DRM by any means. I'd like to play offline like everyone else, but I will always have an internet connection.
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01/21/2013 11:47 PMPosted by DoMiNaTioN


That's your, and blizzard problem. Stop thinking you're the best because of what blizzard has done in the past and because you pat each other on the back and say "we work for Blizzard WE MUST BE AWESOME". Like a bunch of Hollywood elites that give each other awards in lavish ceremonies to movies that bombed at the box office because they were "well done", while passing up the blockbusters.

Stop being obsessed with "your vision for the game" and fighting us and arguing with us every time we bring up an objection to something you did or propose. This may come as a shock, but we know what we like, better than you do. And you, and your blues, coming into the forums to "better explain your design philosophies" does not help. As if we are all bunch of idiots and the reason we don't like or agree with your design is because you didn't explain it well enough for us rubes.

You say Jay is awesome and one of the best. Well you know what, the Diablo community by in large, disagreed. Diablo was sold on D2 and blizzards reputation alone. And really, we should have all seen it coming that this game was nowhere near ready for release. Giving it away for free with the WoW annual pass? No leveling past 20 in the beta while claiming it was to preserve the story? All bad signs. But we trusted you.

Here is a huge tip. And you are not going to like it one bit. But you want all the diablo community who swore off you and blizzard to come back? Coupled with the redemption of the diablo series and a huge restoration of faith in blizzard? When, and ONLY when first expansion for diablo 3 is ready........release it for free. As a free upgrade to people who already had diablo 3 and as a free expansion for people who buy D3 new. No gimmicks, no strings, not bundled with whatever the 3rd installment of starcraft is going to be. Free.


I agree with you.


An expac to D3, fixing the game, including all the pre-designed-and-implemented-but -removed goodness, real itemization, etc, etc; being anything but free; would be the biggest insult ever.
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01/22/2013 12:13 AMPosted by Slappy
don't even get me started ever since this games release its been a nightmare, vendors where never told the game was "Online To Play" so you had a huge chunk of players who don't have internet having to file for refunds or store credit.


Who doesn't have home internet access in 2012 (now 2013)? Furthermore, who has a computer capable of playing modern video games and does not have a home internet connection? That blows my mind.

I'm not a fan of the online-only DRM by any means. I'd like to play offline like everyone else, but I will always have an internet connection.


Well, I have internet, but it isn't good. Furthermore there isn't anything I can do about it.

Thing is, I have recently been playing another, free, ARPG which is online-only. BUT, if I get a DC, my solo game is saved, my TP (remember being able to cast TPs that remain?) is saved, my progress is saved, my revealed map is saved, the dead mobs are still dead, my loot still lies on the floor. And in 2 clicks, I can reset them all while still in game.

In D3, I get a DC, all the above is gone (well the TP wouldn't exist in the first place).
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01/21/2013 11:35 PMPosted by Herethebeef
I’ve worked with many, many designers at Blizzard and Jay is one of the best.


That's your, and blizzard problem. Stop thinking you're the best because of what blizzard has done in the past and because you pat each other on the back and say "we work for Blizzard WE MUST BE AWESOME". Like a bunch of Hollywood elites that give each other awards in lavish ceremonies to movies that bombed at the box office because they were "well done", while passing up the blockbusters.

Stop being obsessed with "your vision for the game" and fighting us and arguing with us every time we bring up an objection to something you did or propose. This may come as a shock, but we know what we like, better than you do. And you, and your blues, coming into the forums to "better explain your design philosophies" does not help. As if we are all bunch of idiots and the reason we don't like or agree with your design is because you didn't explain it well enough for us rubes.

You say Jay is awesome and one of the best. Well you know what, the Diablo community by in large, disagreed. Diablo was sold on D2 and blizzards reputation alone. And really, we should have all seen it coming that this game was nowhere near ready for release. Giving it away for free with the WoW annual pass? No leveling past 20 in the beta while claiming it was to preserve the story? All bad signs. But we trusted you.

Here is a huge tip. And you are not going to like it one bit. But you want all the diablo community who swore off you and blizzard to come back? Coupled with the redemption of the diablo series and a huge restoration of faith in blizzard? When, and ONLY when first expansion for diablo 3 is ready........release it for free. As a free upgrade to people who already had diablo 3 and as a free expansion for people who buy D3 new. No gimmicks, no strings, not bundled with whatever the 3rd installment of starcraft is going to be. Free.


Well said. Get off your high horse Blizzard.
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how about a sticky for constructive suggestions ... anything else can be deleted ...

This would show us someone actually reads it as anything other than constructive suggestions gets removed...

This would be a start to showing us were not going unheard
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01/21/2013 07:48 PMPosted by Dtittyslap
BTW, there's a highly ranked post in this very thread that says, "shut down both AHs".


Look, Ive explained this to countless bafoons before you. So here we go again...

All the AH does is it speeds up the process called "trade" and it also protects you.

People will still trade even if there is no AH, all that will happen is trade will be alot more time consuming and tedious. And tedious is not something im looking for.

You think the AH is bad cos you cant controll yourself? Well im sorry to break it to you but people like you will be the first ones on the Black Market having your credit card stolen and charged for thousands.

The AH/RMAH is here for your own protection and to offer you speed service when trading. Having to search pupblic games for hours and hours just in the hopes of finding one item that semi resembles the one your looking for....its either that or go deal with the Black market scums..... AND YOU DARE TO SUGGEST THIS BE IMPLEMENTED??????????????
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90 Human Priest
6525
http://tardbunny.wordpress.com/2013/01/21/in-defense-of-jay-wilson-bullying-is-not-a-game/

Grow up kids.

Seriously, grow up.


Um ok. Obviously none of those guys has a business degree. Do they understand the term "sell out" or "cash grab"? If Jay wanted hugs and "awww shucks don't worry. You'll get it right next time. It doesn't matter that you took peoples' money and messed up a franchise. Here's a hug. Muah!" then he should not have been game director of a triple A franchise.

Also, an xpac fixing D3 means we shell out more money. Sometimes to get sh*t done you have to be a cold and prickly instead of a warm and fuzzy. Sorry. That's life.
Edited by Blunts#1199 on 1/22/2013 1:06 AM PST
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01/22/2013 12:34 AMPosted by Anuhart


Who doesn't have home internet access in 2012 (now 2013)? Furthermore, who has a computer capable of playing modern video games and does not have a home internet connection? That blows my mind.

I'm not a fan of the online-only DRM by any means. I'd like to play offline like everyone else, but I will always have an internet connection.


Well, I have internet, but it isn't good. Furthermore there isn't anything I can do about it.

Thing is, I have recently been playing another, free, ARPG which is online-only. BUT, if I get a DC, my solo game is saved, my TP (remember being able to cast TPs that remain?) is saved, my progress is saved, my revealed map is saved, the dead mobs are still dead, my loot still lies on the floor. And in 2 clicks, I can reset them all while still in game.

In D3, I get a DC, all the above is gone (well the TP wouldn't exist in the first place).


Path of Exile FTW
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01/22/2013 12:13 AMPosted by Eugenius
Here's the thing: there's an inverse correlation between the likelihood that you'll bash Jay's role on the D3 project, and your understanding of the games development process. Even if you dislike the game, but are not a total bumbling idiot, you will at most settle for saying "game was !@#$, but good luck in the future", or something to that effect. The more detail you add in your analysis about Jay's role (and in some cases the game itself, some of you really are clueless), the less you know what you're talking about. Even other team members don't have the full picture.


Quite a deal of irony here Eugenius (and not just in your profile name), that you should insult pretty much anyone not sharing your blind and uncritical view of the game, but that you should then indulge in exactly the same behaviour, thereby your own rules classifying yourself as one of the low intelligent types you have so much distaste for.
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The thing that blows me away is that since the release of the game I have seen nothing but insult after insult against Jay and the game, and now everyone is saying touchy feely stuff.

I love the game and don't really care who is in charge, just as long as it keeps moving forward.
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01/18/2013 05:12 PMPosted by Rob Pardo
I was ultimately responsible for the game we released and take full responsibility for the quality of the result.


Okay, okay, I get it, it's not Jay Wilson's fault the game is lacking decent content, good to know,
but you had nothing to do with the "F that loser" comment now did you? And that's why Jay Wilson got the arrow to the knee and deserved to leave the game's development
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From a Diablo 2 personal old player view, the evident sin in D3 have been the presumption. And probably the effort to experiment the RMHA and try to make it working, loosing contact with the heart of the game itself. Or maybe thinking to the new generation with a structure ready to console.

All Jay had to do, before to start planning this third chapter, was to look at Diablo with humility, and a sense of reverence and respect and then start to build it up from where it was. Because hundreds of thousands of loyal Diablo 2 players, that played this franchise for ages, can't all be wrong.

But sorry to say, it was evident Jay Wilson didn't valued Diablo 2 that much (he had his own personal view of the game that didn't meet the one of the majority of the old players). Not less it is evident, his arrogance, when he have despised the same creator as well (no hypocrisy please) thinking none could read him, and removing his words as soon as . The answers around the team in that thread also were not that great. To my old eyes they all looked a bit boyish, as the game.
He, they, them (no matter) thought, sinning of presumption, to be able to make Diablo 3 better from the scratch. But to me, he simple, was wrong.
Diablo 2 was like a cult movie, an unbeaten fantasy online rpg game for ages, much more complex and had more depth of what it appear to be. Alchemy and structure was much "mature" in many aspects then in Diablo 3. Look like Jay and the devs team played Diablo 2 with superficial eyes or not at all.

He could be the best game designer of the world, but he was not the right person to work on this franchise to me. And it's too late now, the damage is done. The core of Diablo 3 isn't true to the franchise.

I can't blame who hired him and toke some decisions behind him. I'm sure there are more people taking decision, I do blame more his evident presumption to think to know what would be better for the Diablo fans. In a few world, what he though was boring in Diablo 2, was exactly what let me have fun and enjoying playing this franchise. Cain included..
Edited by Kajuan#2923 on 1/22/2013 1:50 AM PST
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85 Tauren Shaman
6350
Yes yes Trolls are Trolls, and if you focus on them and their idiocy then you have 0 faith in anything your playerbase has to say. It seems time and Time again, no one can withstand the onslaught of pure stupidity and brush it aside in order to deal with real concerns.

I now have 0 faith in companies desire to publish a game for anything other than the purpose of huge sales. To Milk dry its consumers with DLCs, MicroTransactions, collectors editions full of meaningless fluff, the list goes on.

There is a widening disconnect between developers and their projected playerbase.
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........Jay's Gone!!!
!@#$ That Loser!!!!!

I hope things move in the right direction.......
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Thank you, Jay Wilson. You and your team made an awesome game with great gameplay depth, and I've had tons of fun playing it. Good luck with your future projects!
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01/22/2013 01:33 AMPosted by terenceloar
"Less thinking, more clicking"


Yes this is a disturbing trend i have noticed in their latest work. Trying to make the RolePG more like an action arcade game for drunk people.

So Rob i ask you this with all sincerity: Is this dumbing down of your games going well for you guys? Sales figures hitting targets?

Mop sold less in its first week than last expan sold on first day. Very bad indicator.

I have been playing Blizz games my entire life and this saddens me.

You guys have taken the wrong direcction with your games. You have removed layers of immersion. You have removed Character Development. You have removed subscribers and loyal fans.

Your killing your loyal audience while attempting to capture drunkards. Seriously i play D3 with only my mouse. And its a bad mouse.

The item system is poor and I cannot customise my toon in ANY way besides with said poor items.

Pls can you guys add detail and deapth to your games once again. Clearly this new path of capturing the drunkards is costing you guys millions of dollars and for that reason alone things should be changed with all due haste.

Ive spent 40k+ hours playing RPG games in my life, you should really trust me about the items. They need to be redone. And we need to be able to customise our heroes(Dont call them Nephs)

If for some reason you guys cant figure out an exciting item system I will be happy to do it for you. Simply contact me in game, give me an air ticket and ill be on my way.

And Rob, one last thing. Pls for your next director could you pls, and im begging here, get someone who LOVES RPGs. Jay was a fantastic RTS devloper but he really had no bussiness making a RPG.

There must have been thousands of RPG fanatics you could have chosen from. Why choose the RTS guy? Makes no sense to me sorry...
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And Rob, one last thing. Pls for your next director could you pls, and im begging here, get someone who LOVES RPGs. Jay was a fantastic RTS devloper but he really had no bussiness making a RPG.

There must have been thousands of RPG fanatics you could have chosen from. Why choose the RTS guy? Makes no sense to me sorry...


I think the core attribute for the job was to be able to do what you are told by the suits above you, take the backlash for those decisions, be a scapegoat and not let any real love for Diablo or ARPGs in general get in the way of it.

Sure, there are many developers out there with ARPG credentials, with love for Diablo, love and respect for the fans, who would put their heart and soul into creating the best ARPG ever and let no money grabbing, goose slaying, fast buck suits ruin their design.

But these guys are not the guys for a 2007+ ActiBlizzard game.
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