Diablo® III

Fixit #4 - Reworked MP levels

So Droth has been putting a few models up (and copping some heat for doing it), and while I might not agree with everything he has to say, I really do support strongly his attempts to try and propose fixes for the current MP system. So, here goes my proposal.

1) The Current Issue (Pre-Data)

In the current system (for Inferno), mob health scales higher at a dramatically faster rate than damage, XP, MF/GF and Bonus items.

The results in the following issues:

a) MP10 is not significantly harder than MP0 for any character with reasonably good gear.
b) MP10 is significantly less efficient for any character with less than stellar gear (500k DPS or less).
c) The current system favours a strategy leaning towards semi-glass cannon builds, due to relatively low mob damage combined with extremely high mob health.
d) The current system strongly favours grinding Paragon levels at very low levels of MP. This is in fact my chief criticism of the current system.

2) The Data

Since I know from Droths threads that failure to present real data will see some people dismiss this idea out of hand, here is my very real data. The following table lists the results of 70 timed Vault of Assassin runs I conducted.

In each run an exactly duplicated route was taken, from a duplicated initial starting position making a counter-clockwise track around the dungeon until ending up at the original start position. During all runs, no loot was taken, and no equipment was changed from first run to last. Each run was timed.

The particulars of what class of character I was using or what it's DPS were are irrelevant (though for those that insist upon it, it was my Barb) since different classes or gear will affect the absolute numbers only, but not to any significant degree the relative values arrived at, for any character with less than 500k DPS (around that point there will be changes due to the lower MP levels being significantly over-killed).

Monster Power Level / XP (in millions) gained per hour:

MP0 / 26.588
MP2 / 28.110
MP3 / 32.921
MP4 / 24.729
MP5 / 21.580
MP6 / 20.371
MP8 / 17.774

Note, that you can actually see an increasing gain here from previous MP levels for MP2 and MP3. This was due to my Barbs DPS being sufficiently high that the very lowest MP levels resulted in over-klll of mobs, and also due to Barb mechanics some fury starvation, as well as a preponderant amount of time spent running through the map rather than killing.

With any character, similar results will obtain, namely that the very lowest levels of MP (and the breakpoint will vary depending on the characters DPS) will result in some efficiency lost until an MP level high enough is selected that balances killing time and transit time through the zone.

3) The Current Issue (Post-Data)

So, what's wrong with these results? Well, what's wrong with them is that my Barb could comfortably and safely play in MP10, it just wasn't very efficient.

MP10 ought to be harder than it is. My character which was then only marginally decently equipped (and even now is no danger of breaking into the top ranks of Barbs), had already achieved a point where MP10 was no longer challenging (in the sense that death was a likely outcome of any encounter), it was just merely tedious and boring (due to the extreme mob health scaling, of which more shortly).

The other issue of course is that as you can see from the results table, efficiency fell away rapidly in higher MP levels. Since the rate of XP gain can be considered to hold over time to a relatively stable relationship with mob kills and therefore loot drops we can see therefore that less XP generally means, all else being equal, less loot (the bonus item factors in the MP system notwithstanding).

Hence, everyone continues to farm low levels of MP for XP, and even at Paragon 100, where the XP gain would no longer be a factor people still tend to keep to relatively low levels of MP settings.

4) My Proposed Solution - The Numbers

Adjust the values for mob health and damage so that they scale more appropriately to make the higher levels of Monster Power simultaneously more rewarding and more challenging.

The current scaling for mob health and damage and experience is as follows (I've normalised all numbers to four digits to try and line the tables up a little better):

    MP setting::: MP1 / MP2 / MP3 / MP4 / MP5 / MP6 / MP7 / MP8 / MP9 / MP10
    Mob health::: 0150 / 0225 / 0326 / 0457 / 0629 / 0895 / 1253 / /1755 / 2457 / 3439
    Mob damage: 0114 / 0130 / 0148 / 0169 / 0193 / 0220 / 0250 / 0285 / 0325 / 0371
    Experience::: 0010 / 0020 / 0030 / 0045 / 0060 / 0075 / 0095 / 0115 / 0135 / 0160


My proposed values would be:

    MP setting::: MP1 / MP2 / MP3 / MP4 / MP5 / MP6 / MP7 / MP8 / MP9 / MP10
    Mob health::: 0125 / 0167 / 0213 / 0278 / 0364 / 0498 / 0676 / 0927 / 1278 / 1769
    Mob damage: 0121 / 0145 / 0172 / 0203 / 0239 / 0280 / 0325 / 0378 / 0438 / 0507
    Experience::: 0015 / 0030 / 0045 / 0067 / 0090 / 0112 / 0142 / 0172 / 0202 / 0240


5) My Proposed Solution - The Effects

Mob health increases 50% slower in each successive MP level, with the proposed MP10 level being roughly equivalent to the current MP8 level.

Mob damage increases 50% faster in each successive MP level, with the current MP10 level being equivalent to only MP8 in this proposed system.

XP gained increases 50% faster in each successive MP level, with MP10 level bonus experience being equivalent to only MP8 in this proposed system.

Thus, higher levels of MP become much more rewarding, much more efficient, but also more challenging than they currently are.

TLDR - just read section 5.

Edit: This has become a little moot now since the release of 1.07 patch notes indicating a change to XP levels, but I would still advocate a change in the mob health scaling.
Edited by Hawkeye#1335 on 1/19/2013 7:19 PM PST
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Wonder if 1.07's higher xp for higher MP lvls will equalize the xp grind. I know right now on MP10 the elites take foreverr to kill- but it doesn't feel too hard just.. time consuming.
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01/21/2013 03:03 AMPosted by Omeed
Wonder if 1.07's higher xp for higher MP lvls will equalize the xp grind. I know right now on MP10 the elites take foreverr to kill- but it doesn't feel too hard just.. time consuming.


Yeah, time consuming it is (short of 500k+ DPS), which is why I proposed back when I made this post that not only should the XP be increased - which Blizzard has now done (and indeed by far more than I was suggesting), but that Mob Health be decreased as well.

The numbers I put in would just about halve mob health at MP10, and the reason I still think this is a good idea is that what hasn't killed you in say the first 10 seconds isn't likely to ever kill you no matter how long you take to kill it.

That said, using the data I gathered and posted, the new XP rates in 1.07 mean you are far better off to grind higher MP levels than was ever the case prior to this patch.

==============================================
Hawkeyes Fixit Proposal Posts
==============================================


End-game content: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7708411109#1
More meaningful polls: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7593742081?page=1#0
Tradable Upgradable BOA Scrolls: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592401379?page=1#0
Reworked MP levels: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592580633?page=1#0
Improved Crafting timers: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7709281044#1
Edited by Hawkeye#1335 on 1/21/2013 3:52 AM PST
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01/21/2013 03:03 AMPosted by Omeed
Wonder if 1.07's higher xp for higher MP lvls will equalize the xp grind. I know right now on MP10 the elites take foreverr to kill- but it doesn't feel too hard just.. time consuming.


I actually DON'T want the XP grind to be equalized between MP levels. I actually think it should be left alone, so that low MP is more effective for levelling, and high MP is more effective for hellfire (which is used for said levelling).

I feel like the XP buffs will make it pointless to do low level XP runs or high level Hellfire (since hellfire is hugely nerfed by 1.07), pushing people towards the middle, which, despite its seemingly good intentions, will hurt build diversity.

I think the people's need for better rewards at higher MP levels could have been addressed in other ways (crafting comes to mind).
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01/21/2013 04:18 AMPosted by Delfius
I actually DON'T want the XP grind to be equalized between MP levels. I actually think it should be left alone, so that low MP is more effective for levelling, and high MP is more effective for hellfire (which is used for said levelling).


I can understand your desire for some reason to set varying levels of Monster Power, but (with all due respect and courtesy) how would you counter the argument that face-rolling content in order to boost leveling speed is a very boring way to level paragon more quickly.

The current system (pre-1.07) means that for leveling efficiency you're forced into such a low level of MP setting that the content is completely trivial and not even remotely challenging.
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