Diablo® III

One question for ur dev team

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Sarcasm is the language of fools..

Many of the biggest decisions and "inventions/breakthroughs" have been made by NOBODIES that started with a dream of doing something in their garage... the problem with America is we are so concerned with what initials fall after our names rather than who is actually brilliant and has a creative fire. And some of the guys on here, including myself, given the means could create masterworks with the tools available to these people... again, another Blizzard Pole Smoker... GTFO. I'm a bigger fanboy than you, but I'm not blind...


But when you are thrusted into a job like Jay's without any experience at making design decisions. No experience at doing the job of making sure everything that is one the plate gets done. When you are in the coder's position and have to code for the game. Making new content or fixing bugs. Then you would say holy crap I did not know it was really that difficult to do job x. That is the way it is for those who are armchair programmers and think that fixing things and making new things for a game like this is duck soup.

Doing this for free is just crazy. Blizzard employs what they consider professionals and they can't get the job done, so they have to rely on their playerbase to do it for them. I'm in a very tough spot right now, developing some heart problems on the brink of emergency and I don't have any money to go. The last thing I have on my mind right now is doing free work for a game that they should have gotten right on the first place.


I have a news flash for you, D2 only became a great and awesome game because of the player base. Blizz North could not have truly done it on their own. So it was a team effort. The same is true here for this game. It takes the efforts of others like you and me to give what ideas we can when we can. Whether or not they ever get used or not. Or even worse at times they might even go unnoticed. But still the effort is worth. When some change comes along that you and others had made the suggestion. You fee that you had helped make the game better due to your voice.
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I find it hilarious when children and out-of-touch adults like to chime in with how long certain things should take to implement without having any personal experience whatsoever. Designing anything worthwhile takes skill, money, and patience. I find it entirely believable that many of the original team has moved on to other projects within Blizzard (Jay was simply the only visible one).

Diablo III receives less attention than Starcraft II because there's no e-sport component to it and thus less advertising revenue and marketing possibilities beyond the initial purchase. Further, both Diablo III and Starcraft II receive far less attention than World of Warcraft because there's no subscription fees associated with those games. The amount of money that can be used towards maintaining a game is a function of many things that Diablo III just doesn't have.

So, it's no surprise that these relatively small patches takes months to achieve compared to World of Warcraft's absolutely massive game-changing patches every 2-3 months. The development budget and financial incentive to add new content to Diablo III is a fraction of other games within Blizzard's studios.

I love it when people give the second biggest gaming company in the world wayyyy too much slack.
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Sarcasm is the language of fools..

Many of the biggest decisions and "inventions/breakthroughs" have been made by NOBODIES that started with a dream of doing something in their garage... the problem with America is we are so concerned with what initials fall after our names rather than who is actually brilliant and has a creative fire. And some of the guys on here, including myself, given the means could create masterworks with the tools available to these people... again, another Blizzard Pole Smoker... GTFO. I'm a bigger fanboy than you, but I'm not blind...

But when you are thrusted into a job like Jay's without any experience at making design decisions. No experience at doing the job of making sure everything that is one the plate gets done. When you are in the coder's position and have to code for the game. Making new content or fixing bugs. Then you would say holy crap I did not know it was really that difficult to do job x. That is the way it is for those who are armchair programmers and think that fixing things and making new things for a game like this is duck soup.

Doing this for free is just crazy. Blizzard employs what they consider professionals and they can't get the job done, so they have to rely on their playerbase to do it for them. I'm in a very tough spot right now, developing some heart problems on the brink of emergency and I don't have any money to go. The last thing I have on my mind right now is doing free work for a game that they should have gotten right on the first place.

I have a news flash for you, D2 only became a great and awesome game because of the player base. Blizz North could not have truly done it on their own. So it was a team effort. The same is true here for this game. It takes the efforts of others like you and me to give what ideas we can when we can. Whether or not they ever get used or not. Or even worse at times they might even go unnoticed. But still the effort is worth. When some change comes along that you and others had made the suggestion. You fee that you had helped make the game better due to your voice.


Started out in college with the aspiration of being a Computer Engineer... before wanting to do less typing and more creating... I never found numbers and formulas engaging... I switched to a more creative career... and this is exactly what Blizz needs now more than ever. Creative people.
Edited by TheOneRaven#1565 on 1/19/2013 2:09 PM PST
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One statement I’ve seen over and over on these forums and elsewhere are proposals for “easy” fixes and overarching assumptions about how long implementation for a variety of changes “should” take.

The reality is, game development is a hugely iterative and time-consuming process, with many people (US as beta tessters, pay us for that i saw u serch testers u already have them) involved along the way. Design takes time, Coding takes time, art takes time, QA takes time: you name it (There are impormtant things with high priorytet and more importmant things with higher priorytet). There are also multiple steps in the pipeline for each and every proposed change and bug fix, no matter how minor, and what issues are being worked on in what order and by who can and do change as new matters arise. Sometimes extra testing is also needed for bugs that come back broken and need to be retested, because we didn't want them to go live with a bad fix.


Blizzard is rich company, u have alot of employes and when i saw this duel mode u added i just coldnt belive that duels made Blizzard. These from D2 on open map were 100x better, i no say this because i play DH, but even more fun was with mele hero to chase someone and block that dh arrows near walls houses or caves.

This is how i see duels:

1. Add big map like this when u leave tristram on d2 or d3 these are good and problem is solved.
2. Barb could use spears vs range hero but add one rune with fast spears that fly fast or they are chaseing eneamy a little.
3. Monk have already good skills for bigger map
4. Ranged hero are good
5. Some switch to add % hp like that evryone use alone but to apply changes ppl need open some window and accpet because if there will be always dislay comunicate ppl will troll with that later with agresivly way of beg for more hp spam to accept.
6. Add score board
7. Time for duel
8. Match makeing
9. Ranked stats that shows who won the most games and for won games ppl get +1 to win and for lost games -1 win and evryone starts from rateing 10. It will be funny when ppl will lose games nad they will have rateing lower then 0 maybe then they will realize they need farm no that other chars are too op.
10. Add something that info ppl in normal game who have how good rating.
Edited by Mikstry#2230 on 1/19/2013 2:32 PM PST
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Not one of us is saying this is EASY for "us" but it certainly should be for you guys... you are supposed to have some of the best talent (in this field) in the world... I think that about sums it up.
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diablo 3: 12years


What? Rofl, why are you even talking? You have no !@#$ing idea.
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it seems like there's too much red tape. Give the creative people more autonomy.
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01/19/2013 01:26 PMPosted by TeslianShock
They explicitly say on the POE website that they have been working on it for 6 years, and it still isn't completely finished. How is that much faster?
They're an indie game studio developing a game that looks and sounds like a big budget title. If they had the staff of the bigger companies, I doubt it'd take 6 years.
But still the effort is worth. When some change comes along that you and others had made the suggestion. You fee that you had helped make the game better due to your voice.
That's true, but I've come to a point where I can't spend that time anymore. I literally have to move onto other things for my own well being. Maybe somewhere down the line, I'll have some more time to spend on the game and forums. I'll definitely keep an eye on the updates and see what kind of stuff Blizzard integrates into their game from fan feedback.
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One statement I’ve seen over and over on these forums and elsewhere are proposals for “easy” fixes and overarching assumptions about how long implementation for a variety of changes “should” take.

The reality is, game development is a hugely iterative and time-consuming process, with many people involved along the way. Design takes time, Coding takes time, art takes time, QA takes time: you name it. There are also multiple steps in the pipeline for each and every proposed change and bug fix, no matter how minor, and what issues are being worked on in what order and by who can and do change as new matters arise. Sometimes extra testing is also needed for bugs that come back broken and need to be retested, because we didn't want them to go live with a bad fix.

While there may indeed be a list of known issues and bugs that run alongside some patches, for every one you are aware of, there can be dozens or hundreds being worked on behind-the-scenes that you likely never be aware of. We do things just as quickly as we can, but even then, it’s a process that takes time.


Wow this comment kindly pissed me off. I have no respect for this team at all anymore. Why don't you man up and admit you have lazy people or people that don't know what the hell your doing. This is a disgrace to game developers in general.
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01/18/2013 06:43 PMPosted by Ryaskybird


POE, Torchlight 2 and also Diablo 2 had much faster development for his age.


None of those have the quality that Diablo 3 has.

And certainly TL2 doesn't have the staying power. We shall see about PoE.


can't speak for poe/tl2 but diablo2 was far superior to d3 in terms of modular, stable, extensible design.

the hallmark of any amazing pc game has always been how much the gaming community modified, extended, fixed, and adjusting the game to keep it ever more interesting.

I have seen none of that for d3. if this game didn't share the name of the predecessor it probably would go unnoticed in the annals of game history. it certainly didn't innovate in any large capacity or extend the experience of d2 as d2 did to d1.

d2 is in another tier of gaming history and design from d3. sure d3 is modern hardware and graphics but the mood, theme, and scale of d2 makes d3 pale in comparison.

the simple fact I can run 16 copies of d2 on one machine, in tandem, without them crashing, is one of the primary reasons d2 was so amazing.

i can't even run a single instance for 4 hours in d3 in hardcore without the gpu faulting and freezing my machine during reflush.

if nothing else, diablo2's faults favored the gamer. diablo3's faults punish the gamer. that is the real tale of how strong a game is.
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01/19/2013 09:24 AMPosted by speedforce
hmmm. i am hardly a "nobody", and it's hardly up to you to decide on my qualifications

I never said you were a nobody. I'm just saying that what Blizzard is asking is of different qualifications and field of work than you do. I'm just going by what you said and going by what Blizzard is asking for.

If you really think you're qualified than I'm qualified too. You do analyst work but mine is more towards the realm of what Blizzard needs right now (game design, direction, etc). That is why I made the comment. Why do you feel that Blizzard needs what you are offering and why should that take precedence over someone who understands games and what people find fun? Because you have a degree and have worked on multimillion dollar projects and I haven't?

Blizzard said that they needed someone who shipped AAA games (various), have over 5 years relevant inside the game industry and someone who has at least a bachelors (but prefer more). That's who they are asking for. Neither me or you are it homie.


i know i've said i'm trough with posting in this thread and i'm expecting next answer from blizzard, but since you're only polite and seemingly knowledgeable person posting, i'll make an exception - after all it is saturday, so i have some spare time.

firstly, believe or not, i applied for a job several days ago, before whole 'jay incident', so i definitely don't look upon myself as a new lead developer, or even developer as such. my goal in submitting resume for job was chiefly to be taken more seriously.

secondly, i don't think my degree qualifies me as a designer (in fact, my personal opinion is that none does). my job history was listed because everyone can start a project, but not everyone can finish it - so it is kind of proof of that ability. being a very analytical person (helpful if you're analyst, somewhat less when you're coordinator or consultant), i analyze game since it got out. i outlined many solutions to some degree already.

thirdly, game theory is a passion of mine (no formal education, though). i think i know quite a bit about it, and surely enough to fix some pressing matters in game. believe or not, most industry projects are similarly organized, and with similar problems.

fourthly, i believe that blizzard needs help for obvious reasons - game doesn't function well. why am i the person who can provide it? well, i believe that i am and furthermore i offer to do it for free - i cannot see any reason why should i be declined. i think i have experience and knowledge necessary for the task, and if i'm wrong, there is nothing easier than discarding report entirely.

fifthly, i believe that at least some people will follow with their own reports, but i'm not seeking any "developer fame" - fact is that i very rarely take any credit for participating in game-related projects (mods or maps, never full games). all my solutions are designed to be cost/time effective (both in cost and man-power), to minimize unavoidable testing time and to utilize existing used or unused resources, rather than creating need for additional work. furthermore, as i would do it for free, the competition is welcome. but i do believe that quality of my work will surpass others, and if not - even better.

sixthly, when i said my professional advice is to seek 3rd party help, i wasn't necessarily talked about myself - clearly blizzard internal solving doesn't function well enough, and community is many voices in discord (some of which completely wrong, but very loud) - so, some kind of mediating is needed. of course, it is easiest to do nothing but sit and wait and criticize and insult everyone on forums, but i'm not kind of person which minds getting "hands dirty" and doing some actual work for the game i love to play.

lastly, i never said that i'm better than you, or if you're qualified for job or not - i don't know you and cannot make such a claim. degree or job history have nothing to do with it (degree is even listed as 'plus' not necessity). i am sorry if i offended you, believe me i know something about how it feels, but it's another story....

if i get positive response from blizzard (no way i'm doing month or more data-crunching, mathematical modeling, etc without blizzard approval), i can offer you to comment the report, or even participate with critique or suggestions or writing parts of it - if you prove worthy, you may be a coauthor (i already said i don't know you, so some caution is... necessary) - i already said that i don't seek fame.
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None of those have the quality that Diablo 3 has.

And certainly TL2 doesn't have the staying power. We shall see about PoE.

can't speak for poe/tl2 but diablo2 was far superior to d3 in terms of modular, stable, extensible design.

I can speak for TL2. TL2 doesn't have the staying power because there's no motivation beyond the first run through. It all comes down to the player and what he/she WANTS to get out of it. The depth is certainly there, the items and such are there, but the player has to be motivated enough to get that stuff b/c similar to D3, it requires a ton of farming to get to where you need to be.

At least in D3, if you get a top tier roll/item, it's worth money and that's enticing enough for players to come back. If it wasn't for that, I doubt anybody would stay just for the game itself since there are better games out there.
firstly, believe or not, i applied for a job several days ago, before whole 'jay incident', so i definitely don't look upon myself as a new lead developer, or even developer as such. my goal in submitting resume for job was chiefly to be taken more seriously.
Ah, I understand a lot better now. I mistook the context your post since we are still fresh off of Jay leaving and the director position being posted up.
secondly, i don't think my degree qualifies me as a designer (in fact, my personal opinion is that none does).
I agree, I think the big problem is that there are a lack of available courses at accredited institutions. There are vocational schools that offer them, but are they to be taken seriously? Or is the degree worth something once you really get out there? My brother fell into that trap and my dad is still paying for it to this day.
lastly, i never said that i'm better than you, or if you're qualified for job or not
I don't take offense to it at all. That's not how I interpreted the post. I simply wanted to make the point that none of us were qualified (in blizzard's eyes) for the job. But that was in the context of the designer position which you said you didn't apply for, so disregard what I said lol
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Well this is one of the douchiest things I've ever read. Congratz on being an !@#$%^- op. Hey guys why aren't you perfect and doing everything for me right when I want it. Just be glad the devs update this game.
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01/18/2013 07:12 PMPosted by vexorian


You are of course, referring to D3 at launch? :p

edit: i r gud wit engrish
Launch was 8 months ago. Get over it.

For that matter, if TL2 or PoE would ever have as many users in their servers as back when D3 was released, their puny servers would melt.


Man, you are exactly right; d3 has some of the biggest whiners, loudest trolls, and some of the most "assuming" player base i've seen; its incredible, most of these whiners as i called them make me LOL with their supposed statements the "feel" is true, but in reality couldn't be further from it.
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Sense when did all these D3 players becomes game developers? Most of you sound like idiots when talking about Diablo 3 and the employees of Blizard. If you don't have anything good to say don't say anything at all. No one tells you how to do your job, or how long it should take.(Besides maybe your boss) ;-)
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01/19/2013 03:52 PMPosted by speedforce
I can speak for TL2. TL2 doesn't have the staying power because there's no motivation beyond the first run through. It all comes down to the player and what he/she WANTS to get out of it. The depth is certainly there, the items and such are there, but the player has to be motivated enough to get that stuff b/c similar to D3, it requires a ton of farming to get to where you need to be.


TL2 has far more staying power than D3 could ever hope to have at the moment. A complete overhaul of the item system is needed in D3.
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One statement I’ve seen over and over on these forums and elsewhere are proposals for “easy” fixes and overarching assumptions about how long implementation for a variety of changes “should” take.

The reality is, game development is a hugely iterative and time-consuming process, with many people involved along the way. Design takes time, Coding takes time, art takes time, QA takes time: you name it. There are also multiple steps in the pipeline for each and every proposed change and bug fix, no matter how minor, and what issues are being worked on in what order and by who can and do change as new matters arise. Sometimes extra testing is also needed for bugs that come back broken and need to be retested, because we didn't want them to go live with a bad fix.

While there may indeed be a list of known issues and bugs that run alongside some patches, for every one you are aware of, there can be dozens or hundreds being worked on behind-the-scenes that you likely never be aware of. We do things just as quickly as we can, but even then, it’s a process that takes time.


I worked on d2. This was a big problem at the time too. We didn't invest in process enough, and it sounds like that lesson wasn't learned. D2 could have (easily) been finished in half the time if we had invested more in process earlier on.
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01/18/2013 06:16 PMPosted by DoomBringer


So the many years of development before release wasn't enough...?


...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJxCdh1Ps48
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