Diablo® III

One question for ur dev team

90 Pandaren Monk
10355
01/18/2013 06:43 PMPosted by Ryaskybird


POE, Torchlight 2 and also Diablo 2 had much faster development for his age.


None of those have the quality that Diablo 3 has.

And certainly TL2 doesn't have the staying power. We shall see about PoE.

PFFFAHAHAHAAA wait... you're serious?

D2 is still considered the King of ARPGs over a decade later. That's with D3 on the scene.

TL2 has taken a fair chunk of D3's community due to D3 being part of the franchise in name and story only. TL2 is more of a sequel to D2 than D3 is.

POE is bringing some innovative ideas to the genre. That those ideas are actually turning out to be popular proves its quality.

Don't be a blind fanboi.
Reply Quote
Plenty of examples like Gnomoria, Minecraft, and other alpha-funded games. I am a game developer but i don't think you need to be one to know the last patch is not the result of the hard work of the full Diablo 3 development team. Compared to previous patches it is really small. And objectively as a developer, even with Q&A and everything else, knowing how (not) pleased most players are, i would expect WAY MORE from the most powerful game development company in the world.

So don't ask if they are working slow or fast. Just ask : how many people are still coding on this game ? Maybe some thing happened in those months preventing the team to be fully productive (like xmas, director change, future system rewriting planning...). But maybe 3/4 of the devs are working on the add-on, and maybe every good feature is built in the addon code instead of the patches.

Anyway, we could all excuse delay and lack of game content if it was for the excellence of it. But it is not the case. In fact, Blizzard game-design choices were strange at first, and now they are completly stupid. Every gamedesign book tell you a lot of things they still seem to not see. Sometimes they say they have their reasons (sometimes they change mind quickly too), sometimes it just doesn't make sense.

Like the non linearity of some costs or the total lack of balance in almost every aspect of the game (just look at the "feeling" of the basic challenges : time vs reward, difficulty vs reward, cost vs reward) > did the experience seemed smooth and perfectly balanced to you ? Far from it. And today, as a gamedesigner and as a very long time player none of the decisions they made for last patch made sense or they failed to design/finish them properly. (i played all diablos, all mods, addons, and so on).

I liked Diablo 3 and the first patches, but clearly now the shared feeling is that fixes are not going fast enough. The gamedesign lack of consistency fixes i mean. Player are waiting a major and total rehaul of the crafting system, the end of the useless/stupid affixes, really usable builds, choice-involving itemization, synergies between skills,builds and items...

All has already been said. Given the expectations of most player and the development of the last 3 months, i think most players will start to loose faith if blizzard does not fix the game design quite soon.


Thank you for opening up my eyes, those two games mentioned have way better graphics than this game. They also no doubt need the absolute best gaming PC's to play them.

Thank you Mr guru of game design. I see now it is real easy to design a game. It only should take 10 minutes to have a fully functional perfect bug free game. So the fixes should only take seconds to do. New content should come from Blizz once every hour. I mean it is super easy to do.

Also get rid of the current synergy in the game and give the only real synergy where you have it like D2. You spend points into one skill it boost another. Because that is the only synergy that works. There is no synergy in the skills right, although I wonder how players can have a perma WotB build. Oh well maybe that is an illusion.

We can camp at Blizz until they make all of the bugs fixes within the next two hours after my post. I mean they are real easy to fix right. Back to reality.

Oh and themed builds you can have a shaker barbarian. Where he uses Earthquake and Seismic Slam. I have my Indiana Jones build that I am having fun with right now.

Then you have my monk and wizard where I cleared inferno with them using the same build you see now. So I have no doubt that there are many other builds that are viable in inferno. Build diversity will keep on going up. Can they handle MP10 who knows they might with the right gear. Can they compete with the absolute best builds in the game. Of course not but I do not care about that.

Viability means, IMO, a build that can be used to beat the game. Or in this game's case clear inferno. I will try other builds as I think of them and see if they can clear inferno. Might even get a DH and a WD up into inferno and try some different builds with them to see what works and what does not work.

Btw there is one more barbarian build that I could try if I wanted to. An old build that I scraped because I knew it would not work when the game was released. But now it might work. I call it my Ancient Crawler build.

Look Mr game designer you only can say what you said if you truly have worked on a game with the size and scope of this game. That also includes, since it seems you did not grasp it earlier. The video and the audio of this game as well. When you have seen just how hard some bugs and known issues are to fix and to code for. Then come back and tell me what it is like.

Now if you really want someone I trust more than you is Brother Laz he is working for Path of Exile. He is designing the unique gear for that game and he says it is not easy to do. So I trust him more than you.
Reply Quote
85 Undead Priest
5025
Anything you don't know how to do seems easy.

And actually, when it comes to game development, making the decisions takes more time and effort than implementing those decisions -- not to say that implementation is quick and easy either, but it would go a whole lot faster if you magically knew what to do.

Or, if you're a small developer, you just do things at random, and hope the collateral damage is minimal, and your (small, but devoted) playerbase will overlook your mistakes. Blizzard doesn't have that luxury, not any more. Anything they do affects millions of people, and no matter what do, a substantial number of people will be ragingly upset, and come to the forums to yell and scream.

Yes, they've gotten too big for their own good, and possibly too big for their development methodology. The last thing they need to do is throw more people at the problem, however. They probably need to trim and reorganize, because they have too much bureaucracy. A million voices yelling at them doesn't really help get things done either.
Reply Quote
I find it hilarious when children and out-of-touch adults like to chime in with how long certain things should take to implement without having any personal experience whatsoever. Designing anything worthwhile takes skill, money, and patience. I find it entirely believable that many of the original team has moved on to other projects within Blizzard (Jay was simply the only visible one).

Diablo III receives less attention than Starcraft II because there's no e-sport component to it and thus less advertising revenue and marketing possibilities beyond the initial purchase. Further, both Diablo III and Starcraft II receive far less attention than World of Warcraft because there's no subscription fees associated with those games. The amount of money that can be used towards maintaining a game is a function of many things that Diablo III just doesn't have.

So, it's no surprise that these relatively small patches takes months to achieve compared to World of Warcraft's absolutely massive game-changing patches every 2-3 months. The development budget and financial incentive to add new content to Diablo III is a fraction of other games within Blizzard's studios.
Edited by aro#1702 on 1/19/2013 7:19 AM PST
Reply Quote
What if I told you I'm a dev for another popular company and gave you the facts about game development? Well, OP is correct. Most of the time is spent wasting it because if we fixed everything as fast as we could our jobs would be gone after a few months instead of riding the dog and pony show for years.

Blizzard reply by Vaeflare is just idling nonsense. He's not a part of the production or development team -- he's a customer representative that replies on forums and sits at a desk much like a call rep you get when you dial a 1-800 # for help.

Regardless, this isn't anything new. Welcome to the way the world works.
Reply Quote
hmmm. i am hardly a "nobody", and it's hardly up to you to decide on my qualifications

except, you don't know anything written in my resume, yet you readily comment things like "bachelor degree" - if you're interested so much, i have a master degree and post-education. i'm professional consultant hired by companies that have troubles in they regular work

you don't know my previous experiences on work on blizzard games, my programming background - let's just say i was a country champion in programming - anyway, i don't feel any more need to defend myself to "nobody's" - who exactly are you? did you ever even worked anywhere, let alone large projects with high value and high responsibility?

nobody told everything can be solved in 1-2 days - even serious analysis will take approximately a month. point is, as far as i can judge (and it IS my job), it has never been done, or some things wouldn't have happened

it is a FREE offer done by accomplished professional, so i don't feel like having to defend my credentials - especially to "kkim84" and "monsta" types. matter is closed as far as i am concerned - i really have to do more important stuff than answering some unfinished student flaming


Post your qualifications then. Which game developer do you work for? Which games have you worked on?
Reply Quote
One statement I’ve seen over and over on these forums and elsewhere are proposals for “easy” fixes and overarching assumptions about how long implementation for a variety of changes “should” take.

The reality is, game development is a hugely iterative and time-consuming process, with many people involved along the way. Design takes time, Coding takes time, art takes time, QA takes time: you name it. There are also multiple steps in the pipeline for each and every proposed change and bug fix, no matter how minor, and what issues are being worked on in what order and by who can and do change as new matters arise. Sometimes extra testing is also needed for bugs that come back broken and need to be retested, because we didn't want them to go live with a bad fix.

While there may indeed be a list of known issues and bugs that run alongside some patches, for every one you are aware of, there can be dozens or hundreds being worked on behind-the-scenes that you likely never be aware of. We do things just as quickly as we can, but even then, it’s a process that takes time.


STOP IT....PLEASE get them to stop concentrating on the stupid little bugs. FIX THE GAME! There are much much bigger issues and being a person who has stopped playing but is here with big hopes that this game will turn around, I feel like some of the big issues being brought up are being ignored. If I am wrong please set the record straight.
Reply Quote
really though, they couldnt get diablo 3 right after 10 years. why bother taking a few months for a patch. we all know it's going to be garbage and need a ton of fixes any way, so you may as well just release it up front
Reply Quote
Marvel Heroes is looking well, and PoE is also very fun, I bought into their beta, and their open beta starts soon.

RIOT games may have a community of D-bags, but the company itself is pretty stellar and they deliver high quality (FUN) patches that make me want to play it personally and that my friends is how you make money... Be good to the customer, and they will be good to you.
Reply Quote
While the development of this game did take a long time, I dont understand why players are not more understanding of just how complex coding can be. Even a seemingly simple fix can have far reaching effects on the game and must be tested extensively. We would not be happy if Blizz was just throwing changes in without proper testing. The amount of bugs we would see would be far greater. I am not defending the game itself but the Change Management process they go through. Even when they do go through this process they dont catch everything because of the number of variables and the fact they are human like you and I.
Reply Quote
Anything you don't know how to do seems easy.

And actually, when it comes to game development, making the decisions takes more time and effort than implementing those decisions -- not to say that implementation is quick and easy either, but it would go a whole lot faster if you magically knew what to do.

Or, if you're a small developer, you just do things at random, and hope the collateral damage is minimal, and your (small, but devoted) playerbase will overlook your mistakes. Blizzard doesn't have that luxury, not any more. Anything they do affects millions of people, and no matter what do, a substantial number of people will be ragingly upset, and come to the forums to yell and scream.

Yes, they've gotten too big for their own good, and possibly too big for their development methodology. The last thing they need to do is throw more people at the problem, however. They probably need to trim and reorganize, because they have too much bureaucracy. A million voices yelling at them doesn't really help get things done either.


You can't tell me that millions of players screaming for a feature isn't a giant RED FLAG to do something... if these guys weren't spoonfed "paragon" hell, that wouldn't even be a feature.... and how many others have been ripped from the community... which is fine, but don't then shun the community as if they are all wackjobs.
Reply Quote
01/19/2013 04:41 AMPosted by kkim84
Since there are SO many professionals who thinks they can do a better job, why don't you all geniuses join up Blizzard and make the corrections yourself? Apply for Blizzard and let's see how many smart mouths can actually get in. I don't want to hear no excuses.
I can do a better job. But you didn't read my post. They want someone who has shipped various AAA games, 5 year experience with bachelors or higher. They set the bar so high that only veterans in the game industry can apply and there's very very few individuals with those credentials can actually apply. The people with those credentials are tied up in other projects.

Eric and Max Schaefer (designers of Diablo 1/2) are with Runic Games, and they own the studio so they aren't going anywhere.

David Brevik is currently President and CEO of Gazillion Entertainment so he isn't going anywhere.

Paul Hellquist is currently doing Borderlands 2, an ongoing project, so he isn't going anywhere.

Okay, so they can't hire me as the Game Director of Diablo 3, but they could hire me as a Creative Strategist (as they did Robert Bowling). Blizzard has previously created similar opportunities such as the one made for Rob Pardo (as Rob was just the guild leader of an Everquest guild back then) and he went on to design WoW.

At this point, in my mind, rests the ground and framework to PVP as well as solutions to the game's itemization, endgame and various other QoL fixes that are badly needed in the game.

Here is the thing. Most of my ideas have been used and with exception to the BoA craftables (the BoA wasn't my design, that was Blizzard's spin) everything has resonated positively with the fanbase and most people love the change. Of course, Blizzard put their own spin on it but the concept is the same.

The problem is, I can't keep doing this. It takes up an enormous amount of time. I know they want people to provide feedback to improve the game, but personally I cannot continue to do Blizzard's work for them. I'm unemployed, currently looking for work and that time is best spent going out to interviews, applying and searching.

Doing this for free is just crazy. Blizzard employs what they consider professionals and they can't get the job done, so they have to rely on their playerbase to do it for them. I'm in a very tough spot right now, developing some heart problems on the brink of emergency and I don't have any money to go. The last thing I have on my mind right now is doing free work for a game that they should have gotten right on the first place.

As far as games go. There are other games for me to play that are better. Borderlands 2, TL2, Skyrim, Path of Exile, League of Legends, Black Ops 2, so on and so forth. I have no shortage of games, so I don't need Diablo 3 either. There's no motivation for me to want D3 to succeed at this point.
Reply Quote
01/19/2013 05:24 AMPosted by Snakefist
hmmm. i am hardly a "nobody", and it's hardly up to you to decide on my qualifications

I never said you were a nobody. I'm just saying that what Blizzard is asking is of different qualifications and field of work than you do. I'm just going by what you said and going by what Blizzard is asking for.

If you really think you're qualified than I'm qualified too. You do analyst work but mine is more towards the realm of what Blizzard needs right now (game design, direction, etc). That is why I made the comment. Why do you feel that Blizzard needs what you are offering and why should that take precedence over someone who understands games and what people find fun? Because you have a degree and have worked on multimillion dollar projects and I haven't?

Blizzard said that they needed someone who shipped AAA games (various), have over 5 years relevant inside the game industry and someone who has at least a bachelors (but prefer more). That's who they are asking for. Neither me or you are it homie.
Edited by speedforce#1637 on 1/19/2013 9:25 AM PST
Reply Quote
01/18/2013 06:13 PMPosted by Xort
The reality is, game development is a hugely iterative and time-consuming process, with many people involved along the way. Design takes time, Coding takes time, art takes time, QA takes time: you name it.


So the many years of development before release wasn't enough...?


How about the achievement bugs? How long does it take to get rid of the Everybody Loves Shen conversation, or remove the champion fallen cur, etc.? You've had several months to do that now, QA's said "we'd done all we can do on out end" at least twice over the last 4 months and still no word from the programmers.

And please don't say they're busy coding the PvP that's not coming out....
Reply Quote
Now if you really want someone I trust more than you is Brother Laz he is working for Path of Exile. He is designing the unique gear for that game and he says it is not easy to do. So I trust him more than you.
I direct you to read OneRaven's post, a few lines up actually
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592583030?page=7#133

Paz used to be a nobody as well. Used to be a regular gamer like you and I, until he went to work on making addons for D2. He was hired on specifically for that knowledge over on Path of Exile. This is the kind of opportunity I'm looking for.

My game log reads 1,218 hours on D3. I've recommended the best and most popular ideas for D3 and I have many more floating around my head. According to people here, I'm a nobody. Apparently it's the nobodies that are shaping the future of D3.

Read Lord of the Rings. It was Hobbits that shaped the fortunes of all. In the book, they were the nobodies of that world.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]