Diablo® III

Votekick PK Solution

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Lilly is deh bestest! =D
Thats what it was then.... I was in a game with poopofdoom when I was vote kicked or something. Right after bannering into combat
I like how she dodged the stalker sucking up to her lol.
01/09/2013 08:15 PMPosted by MasterJay
I like how she dodged the stalker sucking up to her lol.


Confused as there were several posts praising her as to who this one singular "stalker" is.
01/09/2013 06:28 PMPosted by Lylirra
Lylirra, is a disconnect (whether it be server side or client side) a risk that "might be beyond your immediate control" and something that you choose not to intervene in? I think a simple auto-pause feature a la Starcraft would be a simple, unexploitable feature to avoid a DC death?


In general, yes. Disconnections are one of those variables that you'll need to assume is a risk when playing Hardcore. Even so, I've already passed along [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592639780?page=3#59"]this post[/url] by Norc to our developers for their consideration (it's pretty similar to your feedback). :)

I agree Blizzard can't take responsibility for HC DCs. They're outside of anyone's control. However, that doesn't mean I think the current way of handling DCs is as good as it could be for the sake of the players' best interest, while maintaining balance of potential exploitability.

On the topic of HC and its problems (well, the biggest one is being ignored by devs at this stage!), I've written a bit of my thoughts of the biggest problem at the moment (DCs), and some things that we were promised ages ago that are nowhere to be seen (and haven't been heard of since.)

PROBLEM #1
The state of disconnects.

Currently, disconnect detection is abysmal. It can take up to a minute for the server to recognize someone as having DC'd; myself I've tried desperately, on many occasions, to save my disconnected friends as soon as I noticed, but they would remain for what seems like an eternity, only to DC half a minute after their incredibly slow and idle death.

SUGGESTION(S):
Improve DC detection. Games like War3 react significantly faster to player disconnects than this game, and it should be the same.

In party-games, add an option to allow Multiplayer Pause, where any partymember can Pause like normal. This has to be *optional* so strangers can't abuse it.

If possible, combining the two would provide a potential solution for singleplayer DCs, as well. With faster DC detection, have a Force-Pause activate upon DC and storing the current gamestate. Then upon relog, have selecting different quests/chapters/etc. unavailable, and only allow Resume Game, which would put you in the stored state. To prevent massive amounts of required data, or potentially permanently stored data, only allow games to be stored and resumed for up to 30 minutes after the disconnect. If it's not resumed within then, then have the server automatically resume the game with a 10 sec disconnect timer.

In this manner, the potential abuse will be significantly limited, and it would actually IMPROVE one aspect of the DC function that can currently be abused, which is leaping to corners in a bossfight and disconnecting, as you cannot TP or run away. By storing the states, this would no longer be an option, thus reducing current exploitation.

UNMET PROMISE #1
@Diablo Will hardcore characters be more powerful than normal ?

@Spectrusv No intent, no. But they'll definitely have more prestige and flashy things to show off for being so awesome.

This was posted a significant time ago. The game has been out 8+ months now, and there's still no more 'flashy things.'

SUGGESTION:
Add Hardcore-specific cosmetic items and dyes. Add more Hardcore-specific Banner art (what happened to the Misc. Treasure chests/skulls at the base of the banner?!) Add more Hardcore achievements. Give HC players different colors in chat and on friendlist, like in D2.

In closing, I'm not even sure if this will be read or considered. But hopefully some day these things will be implemented, as I genuinely believe it would improve the quality of life for HC players significantly to not have a DC be such a massive guillotine.
Edited by BERSERKER#1596 on 1/9/2013 8:42 PM PST
I understand Hardcore is play at your own risk deal, but with that it comes expectations of service.

Disconnect is outside of anyone's control, no argument there.
Game lags on high end game rigs (and by high end I mean SLI graphics card, 16 gigs of memory, SSD with a 50mb down and 20mb up internet connection), that is on Blizzard.
Game mechanics not working properly, for example Witch Doctor's Spirit Vessel not triggering and caused the player's character to die. Events of these nature are all on blizzard. You want to taunt players with "this is hardcore, play at your own risk" then screw you that's all I have to say. If it's your fault and your just shrugging off all responsibility and telling me tough luck? yeah screw you. Not even going to sugar coat it.

Like alot of the players, I can accept my own incompetence and not expect any sympathy. When it's Blizzard's fault? I expect a reasonable compensation. We pay for the play at your own risk game, we expect a certain level of experience for that "play at your own risk" condition; if you can't comply with that, how are we suppose to say well they did what they could? We just can't.
nice,everytime a blue posts, the value of brimstone go up
No one has to play HC. If you can't deal with disconnects, don't play. I would've said "if you had an unstable connection" don't play... but I have one and I STILL play :)

EDIT: auto-pause in multiplayer is lame. You might have noticed, people really like to get it done in this game.
Edited by pTTr#1911 on 1/10/2013 12:17 AM PST
Why not have the BS sell all the items that you had on when you died in hardcore for sell at a reaonable price when you get to the same lvl you died, as long as it is the same class. All the stats should be the same and IDK if gems you had in the items could be included maybe have the jeweler sell the ones you had back to you. Getting the items for sell one time would help make DC and Lag Spike on HC less frustrating. Or if the Roll system and drops on Hardcore worked a lot better you could just get the items with good stats within a reasonable amount of time. The Grind on HC should be a lot different than the one on SC, because sometimes you have to get a certain lvl or have a certain kind of stats or build or stats to progress or you will die.
Hardcore is hardcore, why do people want concessions?
01/07/2013 10:10 PMPosted by Lylirra
Why not just go to option and set no public game display so nobody random joins your game? FIXED, . . . smart.


Ehhh. While the advice "don't play in Hardcore public games" may be valid in a number of situations, we recognize that this is a legitimate issue for Hardcore players and want to address it ASAP -- ideally in a way that doesn't impact co-op play (or impacts it as minimally as possible).

Right now, we're looking to remove the 10-second movement lockout whenever a Vote Kick is passed from both Hardcore and Normal modes. While we realize this solution may allow players to exploit the Vote Kick function to avoid death, it's not a very reliable survival technique and we feel that it's a better alternative than players losing a character they've invested a lot of time into due to griefing. We'll definitely be keeping on an eye on this, though, and will consider other solutions if necessary.

I don't know yet if this is something that can be addressed via hotfix; it may be a fix that we need to implement with a client-side patch. We're still working out the details, and I'll provide an update once there's any more info to share.


I'm honestly not sure why you'd worry about a group of "friends" playing and using it to kick a near dead friend/member. It would still require timing.

Whatever the solution is its better than having random players exploit this bug to grief/kill others.

You are losing players and you seem worried about "exploit" to save friends.

There are tons of cases I can point out you should worry about.

Hardcore has been neglected in-comparison to the wrapper softcore/rmah3/profit.

I won't say more, but it is very displeasing.
01/09/2013 05:07 PMPosted by Lylirra
Ehhh. While we all really absolutely LOVE Blizz holding our hands throughout the entire game we dont have to !@#$ing play it anymore. Goodbye and good luck with your fail game.


Ooh. You did that thing where you use words I've used, but do it in a way that's intended to be really sarcastic and maybe even a little mean-spirited. That's cute.

Anyway. Yes, playing a Hardcore character is more or less done "at your own risk," with the acknowledgment that the character may die for a variety of reasons (some of which might be beyond your immediate control). And yes, for us to be able to maintain a feature like Hardcore we have to take a hard line about doing everything we can not to intervene in these characters' fates.

Game design isn't always black-and-white, though, and we reserve the right to make exceptions if we feel it will benefit the health of the game. This is one of those situations.


I'm sorry you got stuck on D3 duty Ly. I think the game was a huge let down even though I don't really post here. However, I know alot of people who feel that way are vocal and brash.

Try not to become bitter like some people have due to the negative feedback though, I know some people have went that way and it's sad to see.
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01/09/2013 05:07 PMPosted by Lylirra
Ehhh. While we all really absolutely LOVE Blizz holding our hands throughout the entire game we dont have to !@#$ing play it anymore. Goodbye and good luck with your fail game.


Ooh. You did that thing where you use words I've used, but do it in a way that's intended to be really sarcastic and maybe even a little mean-spirited. That's cute.

Anyway. Yes, playing a Hardcore character is more or less done "at your own risk," with the acknowledgment that the character may die for a variety of reasons (some of which might be beyond your immediate control). And yes, for us to be able to maintain a feature like Hardcore we have to take a hard line about doing everything we can not to intervene in these characters' fates.

Game design isn't always black-and-white, though, and we reserve the right to make exceptions if we feel it will benefit the health of the game. This is one of those situations.


I'm all for reasonable solutions to help with the DC issue, though I am fortunate in that I've earned all of my deaths like a man. With a mace or axe in my hand generally. What i don't like, however, is when you allow somebody in hardcore to rollback an account EVER for any reason.

Please stick to your stated policy. If a hardcore player dies due to DC/bad play/their cat/God/Alien invasion/hacked acct/etc etc et...let him stay dead. Forever. We all read the warning when we create a HC character, why in the world would you ever allow somebody to circumvent that rule?
01/06/2013 06:39 PMPosted by Thorsten
Perhaps just 60 seconds to leave the game, the idea is there. No need for the losing control of your character. One minute should be more than enough for you to find a safe spot and tp...


Unfortunately it may not give them enough time in a boss fight like Belial or Diablo...
01/09/2013 06:28 PMPosted by Lylirra
Lylirra, is a disconnect (whether it be server side or client side) a risk that "might be beyond your immediate control" and something that you choose not to intervene in? I think a simple auto-pause feature a la Starcraft would be a simple, unexploitable feature to avoid a DC death?


In general, yes. Disconnections are one of those variables that you'll need to assume is a risk when playing Hardcore. Even so, I've already passed along [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592639780?page=3#59"]this post[/url] by Norc to our developers for their consideration (it's pretty similar to your feedback). :)


I really didn't want to hear Blizzard state that disconnects are something HC characters 'need to assume is a risk'. :(

The way DC's are detected and dealt with is horrible for HC characters. Up to 50 seconds of not being able to control your character is a guaranteed death in a lot of situations. Even if it was a max of 10 seconds to detect a DC then 10 seconds for the timer it will still be an almost certain death with arcane/desecrate or a big group of mobs.

For single player, an auto-pause until reconnect with fast DC detection is the only solution I've come across that solves the issue and is unexploitable.

I'd prefer the shortest time out possible for DC detection (1-2 secs). I'd much prefer the pause screen to pop up occasionally during lag spikes than be left doing nothing while mobs hit me for ages.

The feature could be made optional (or adjustable) to avoid annoying that don't want/need the feature.
Edited by Elzilcho#1874 on 1/10/2013 8:32 PM PST
01/10/2013 12:39 PMPosted by Bryanw1995


Ooh. You did that thing where you use words I've used, but do it in a way that's intended to be really sarcastic and maybe even a little mean-spirited. That's cute.

Anyway. Yes, playing a Hardcore character is more or less done "at your own risk," with the acknowledgment that the character may die for a variety of reasons (some of which might be beyond your immediate control). And yes, for us to be able to maintain a feature like Hardcore we have to take a hard line about doing everything we can not to intervene in these characters' fates.

Game design isn't always black-and-white, though, and we reserve the right to make exceptions if we feel it will benefit the health of the game. This is one of those situations.


I'm all for reasonable solutions to help with the DC issue, though I am fortunate in that I've earned all of my deaths like a man. With a mace or axe in my hand generally. What i don't like, however, is when you allow somebody in hardcore to rollback an account EVER for any reason.

Please stick to your stated policy. If a hardcore player dies due to DC/bad play/their cat/God/Alien invasion/hacked acct/etc etc et...let him stay dead. Forever. We all read the warning when we create a HC character, why in the world would you ever allow somebody to circumvent that rule?


Co-sign. 1000000000x.

hardcore IS HARDCORE.

Disconnections suck, I've died to them - I don't care. Deal with it.
Posts: 4,125
Co-sign. 1000000000x.

hardcore IS HARDCORE.

Disconnections suck, I've died to them - I don't care. Deal with it.


Agreed--It sucks but Hardcore loses its meaning when people start making request to have rollbacks.
Aye. While it's perfectly reasonable to ask Blizzard to check their server stability (while hopefully such people asking KNOW it can just as much be their end) there is NO alteration needed to hardcore or for hardcores sake.

EDIT: Why DO people wanna play hardcore without the odds stacked against them? Game is easier than it used to be already...
Edited by pTTr#1911 on 1/11/2013 2:38 AM PST
01/11/2013 02:35 AMPosted by pTTr
While it's perfectly reasonable to ask Blizzard to check their server stability (while hopefully such people asking KNOW it can just as much be their end) there is NO alteration needed to hardcore or for hardcores sake.


They do have to check server stability indeed and ensure that this disconnection time out is 10 seconds maximum, not 30 sec or 60 sec...

I realy think that this timer could be reduced in hardcore, down to 5 sec maybe. If you're about to die you won't be able to exploit anything and when a DC occurs it may increase drastically your chances of staying alive. Can't help myself thinking that in D2 you could escape almost immediatly and nobody ever complained - and nobody was "immortal".

01/11/2013 02:35 AMPosted by pTTr
EDIT: Why DO people wanna play hardcore without the odds stacked against them? Game is easier than it used to be already...


Game is not easier, you just play at a too low MP level.
When your barb will have hundreds of hours you might change your mind when dying to a DC.

01/09/2013 08:37 PMPosted by BERSERKER
@Spectrusv No intent, no. But they'll definitely have more prestige and flashy things to show off for being so awesome.


+1 for the unmet promise.
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