Diablo® III

Don't confine duel areas!

I dont understand why so much time was wasted to create new maps for duelling which have no purpose other than for duels, which they state are just for fun, no reward, no added benefit...

Also spurred from here http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592801389 it is extremely difficult to meet or find people to duel and make friends.

They should spend less time making maps where people dont want to duel and more time fixing other issues.

The area where ubers spawn would give more than a good enough place for duels.

Sk/Mag: big hole in the middle
Ghom/Rak: 4 pillars to block LoS
SB/Kulle: huge area

Most other boss spawn locations are prime too:
Azmodan: big arena with 4 pillars
Butcher: cage fight with flames!
Diablo: nice round area with 2 impassible barriers complete with health shrines
Mag: same theme - circular area, pillars and impassable pits.
you get the idea

As well, if it were left to free roaming FFA, you could turn it into a survivor mode or manhunt game while exploring maps we never go to anyways due to lack of good farming.
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01/14/2013 02:28 PMPosted by Astynax
I dont understand why so much time was wasted to create new maps for duelling which have no purpose other than for duels, which they state are just for fun, no reward, no added benefit...


The reason you don't understand it is because it wasn't. These maps were created back when there was a plan for more than dueling. Better to get some use out of them then let them go to complete waste.
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Why are you complaining when you haven't even seen what they have planned?
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01/14/2013 02:28 PMPosted by Astynax
I dont understand why so much time was wasted to create new maps for duelling which have no purpose other than for duels, which they state are just for fun, no reward, no added benefit...


The world that you play through normally wasn't designed for player vs. player combat, so it doesn’t translate well to dueling. There are just too many variables that could wreak havoc during a duel: non-PvP friendly geometry, events, scripted sequences, monsters, level-up effects, portals, etc.

For example: What if someone duels a player while they have Leah (or another hireling) as a follower? What if someone accidentally clicks on an NPC and opens up a dialogue window or a vendor screen? What happens when someone transitions through a portal or to a new zone? Sure, we could try to make accommodations for dueling to assist with each and every of these situations, but not only would those changes require a significant time and resource investment, they'd also have to be flawlessly integrated into the main game world. It's a lot of work for a feature that not a lot of players will see or really take advantage of.

Thematically, we agree – it’d would be cool if players could fight wherever they wanted. But having an environment that actually supports PvP combat, was specifically designed for that purpose, and doesn’t interfere with the rest of the world is much more important when it comes to how the actual gameplay feels. This is one of the main reasons why we created a separate zone for dueling.

The reason you don't understand it is because it wasn't. These maps were created back when there was a plan for more than dueling. Better to get some use out of them then let them go to complete waste.


Not exactly. The Scorched Chapel is an entirely new map, not one we retrofitted or otherwise re-purposed. (Also, just to clarify: there's only 1 dueling map, but it features 4 different areas.)

As for why we didn't use any of the maps we previously designed for Team Deathmatch? Similar to our concerns with the normal game world, those maps weren't designed for non-team based play. It might not seem all that different, and you might be thinking "Who cares! It supports PvP combat, so just let us use those maps!", but many of the design elements (like where barriers and lanes are located, and their respective lengths) aren't quite right for a 4-person Free-For-All and would ultimately make the experience not-so great.

In other words, level design is a little more intricate then you might think. :)

01/08/2013 01:19 AMPosted by Duff66
2. Is it going to be like WoW where you right click someone's portrait and select "duel"?


There aren't any plans for it, and here's why:

One of the big goals with the current design for dueling (in terms of where it exists and how you get there) is to limit opportunities for griefing. By having a separate map that can only be accessed by speaking with an NPC, we're able to give players a means to beat each other up, but without a way to really harass anyone.

We definitely considered the right-click > duel option, but there's a downside to it. If we allowed players to just initiate duels by right-clicking on a player's portrait or in the Friends List, that feature could and probably would be used to grief people by pulling them into duels at arbitrary moments. Heck, even if this system required that the invited player interact with some sort of confirmation dialogue before a duel could be begin, someone still could theoretically spam the bejeebus out of the invite system and use the dialogue feature to interrupt other players’ demon slaying fun time. =/

We've heavily talked about adding NPCs in each Act hub, rather than just having the one in New Tristram to give players more flexibility, and there is/will be a dedicated PvP channel to help would-be duelers find other willing participants. Even so, we'll be paying close attention to your feedback from the PTR, so please let us know about your experiences and what you feel could be improved.
Edited by Lylirra on 1/15/2013 10:57 PM PST
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Lyrlirra, I wonder if one possible way to have world-based dueling would be if you guys ever made a free-roam mode... ie no quests or scripted events, can go to any act, just has monsters and bosses to farm, and presumably open world dueling. Well, just a thought. Probably much more complex than my quick pondering, though presumably it would be similar to Act 1 on the last quest "Return to New Tristram".

Edit: also regarding "Right-click->duel", are you guys considering any way IN a game to be able to organize (teams)? Or is it pretty set in stone that it's FFA only?

Also, I hate to say it (like the OP), but it would be nice to have some way to join or match or find PvP games outside of chat channels.
Edited by Onetwo#1132 on 1/15/2013 7:37 PM PST
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The dueling is great.

That is coming from one of the harshest critics out there.
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01/15/2013 07:27 PMPosted by Lylirra
I dont understand why so much time was wasted to create new maps for duelling which have no purpose other than for duels, which they state are just for fun, no reward, no added benefit...


The world that you play through normally wasn't designed for player vs. player combat, so it doesn’t translate well to dueling. There are just too many variables that could wreak havoc during a duel: non-PvP friendly geometry, events, scripted sequences, monsters, level-up effects, portals, etc.

For example: What if someone duels a player while they have Leah (or another hireling) as a follower? What if someone accidentally clicks on an NPC and opens up a dialogue window or a vendor screen? What happens when someone transitions through a portal or to a new zone? Sure, we could try to make accommodations for dueling to assist with each and every of these situations, but not only would those changes require a significant time and resource investment, they'd also have to be flawlessly integrated into the main game world. It's a lot of work for a feature that a lot of players simply won't see or really take advantage of.

Thematically, we agree – it’d would be cool if players could fight wherever they wanted. But having an environment that actually supports PvP combat, was specifically designed for that purpose, and doesn’t interfere with the rest of the world is much more important when it comes to how the actual gameplay feels. This is one of the main reasons why we created a separate zone for dueling.

The reason you don't understand it is because it wasn't. These maps were created back when there was a plan for more than dueling. Better to get some use out of them then let them go to complete waste.


Not exactly. The Scorched Chapel is an entirely new map, not one we retrofitted or otherwise re-purposed. (Also, just to clarify: there's only 1 dueling map, but it features 4 different areas.)

As for why we didn't use any of the maps we previously designed for Team Deathmatch? Similar to our concerns with the normal game world, those maps weren't designed for non-team based play. It might not seem all that different, and you might be thinking "Who cares! It supports PvP combat, so just let us use those maps!", but many of the design elements (like where barriers and lanes are located, and their respective lengths) aren't quite right for a 4-person Free-For-All and would ultimately make the experience not-so great.

In other words, level design is a little more intricate then it might seem. :)

01/08/2013 01:19 AMPosted by Duff66
2. Is it going to be like WoW where you right click someone's portrait and select "duel"?


There aren't any plans for it, and here's why:

One of the big goals with the current design for dueling (in terms of where it exists and how you get there) is to limit opportunities for griefing. By having a separate map that can only be accessed by speaking with an NPC, we're able to give players a means to beat each other up, but without a way to really harass anyone.

We definitely considered the right-click > duel option, but there's definitely a downside to it. If we allowed players to just initiate duels by right-clicking on a player's portrait or in the Friends List, that feature could and probably would be used to grief people by pulling them into duels at arbitrary moments. Heck, even if this system required that the invited player interact with some sort of confirmation dialogue before a duel could be begin, someone still could theoretically spam the heck out of the invite system and use the dialogue feature to interrupt other players’ demon slaying fun time. =/

We've heavily talked about adding NPCs in each Act hub, rather than just having the one in New Tristram to give players more flexibility, and there is/will be a dedicated PvP channel to help would-be duelers find other willing participants. Even so, we'll be paying close attention to your feedback from the PTR, so please let us know about your experiences and what you feel could be improved.


/dnd

would fix the duel request spam griefing.
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Lylirra, why the developers made the world SO PVP UNFRIENDLY if dueling was something people were going to ask?

I don't understand...

01/15/2013 07:27 PMPosted by Lylirra
The world that you play through normally wasn't designed for player vs. player combat, so it doesn’t translate well to dueling. There are just too many variables that could wreak havoc during a duel: non-PvP friendly geometry, events, scripted sequences, monsters, level-up effects, portals, etc.
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/dnd

would fix the duel request spam griefing.


Why should a player have to keep a DND status up (potentially at all times) just to avoid possible griefing? =/
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Lylirra, why the developers made the world SO PVP UNFRIENDLY if dueling was something people were going to ask?

I don't understand...


Because we had no plans to implement dueling in Diablo III during that stage of the development process.
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well other than the pace of the duels so far I like the concept and the zone :) +1

I wonder would the game feel crowded with 8 players? originally the game was designed for 8 correct? also any way to assign teams in the zone? 2v2?
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Why there is the error 84?
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So just to get this clear, their will be no other way to find people to duel other than the channel you guys will create?
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Just an idea, maybe you could put the request in an insignificant area and small enough that the request won't bother the player even if spammed.
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Lylirra. Why didnt you start with same debuff as in Diablo 2 1/6 of total damage only in PVP? And change things from there rather than starting without debuff?
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01/15/2013 07:44 PMPosted by BlooDDemOn
Just an idea, maybe you could put the request in an insignificant area and small enough that the request won't bother the player even if spammed.


That's certainly something I can pass on. :)
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Honestly I have no complaints other than the length of the duel. If we had a 80-90% damage debuff across the board it would be awesome.

Oh, and a scoreboard would be nice.
Edited by roo483#1266 on 1/15/2013 7:51 PM PST
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thank you!
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01/15/2013 07:41 PMPosted by Ganimedes
So just to get this clear, their will be no other way to find people to duel other than the channel you guys will create?


Not presently. If you have any suggestions, now's the time to provide them!
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