Diablo® III

The real problem with 1.07 crafting

85 Undead Priest
5025
First off, it's a poor assumption that everyone who plays a game has played since launch, or that changes to the game should only be for those kind of players, rather than new players.

It should be obvious that the new BoA crafted items are intended to appeal primarily to players who absolutely refuse to use the AH. Blizzard has said as much. People arguing or complaining that the recipes are useless, particularly compared to items available on the AH, are not the intended audience. And it's a good thing they think the items are useless, because otherwise they would feel compelled to acquire them, and be upset that they have to farm for them themselves, rather than just purchase them on the AH.

However, since the items have the potential to be BiS, even better than things that currently drop, it gives those people who already have current BiS gear something to do, regardless of how they acquired it. It requires them to play the game (rather than just the AH), because Demonic Essences are BoA, but also allows them to use the AH to shortcut the other, substantial costs.
Edited by DashLektrik#1704 on 1/31/2013 8:20 AM PST
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the biggest problem with crafting that its simply offers no profit for anyone. This does not promote the need to want to craft, at least for me. Even if I would get good item, i'm now stuck with this amazing item.

crafting costs must be reduced greatly if they want low budget players to try crafting another then farming. I understand they want gold sinks in the game but from the current plans they offering, i don't believe they know what they're doing.

For example un-socket gems costs 5m, how silly is this seriously? no serious thought went into something like that, its just a gem. Its already bound to our account, we can't trade it or sell it - hell we own it and we end up paying for it over and over everytime we change sockets? seriously no thought went into this.

Same idea applies with crafting, the bounded items is such huge punishment the crafting costs must be reduced if they want to offer players with low budgets to start crafting. Since they can't trade it or sell it, whats the problem seriously?
Edited by Krak#1139 on 1/31/2013 8:55 AM PST
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It's simply come too late. This would have been GREAT in the early days to make it easier to jump into Inferno [...]


They had to get rid of Jay first. Give them a chance.

It looks promising, tbh.

...off to go play Path of Exile.
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just hope they suck, because its BOA, if its easy crafting good maybe even "gozu" or "bis" then the only point of this game (farming) is even more damaged.
For most slots are already few legendary BIS, like vile ward, or mempo, good luck to find better than those with rare quality item, lol.
Currently gloves and amulets can be quite awesome, worthy and useful, if this BOA crap creates very good rolls there's almost nothing left to pick up except legedary and a few rares..

I wont even waste my time to craft any BOA crap, i was ok with hellfire (even tho BOA already sucked here), but this goes to far in in wrong direction...
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is like lottery if u hit it u are happy and become a millionaire

u sure will be happy if u win the lottery every time

but it wont be fun anymore

and ur prize will be less valuable

then u will start to compare between prize money, 201 dex vs 200, 201 will win and will worth 1B gold -_- (the 200 dex one will worth 1m)

.................
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I farm everything, and as of now I am pretty sure that salvaging is an awful waste of time AND money.

I think that one in 5 rares can be sold for at least 100k, that alone makes salvaging a great way to throw money. Picking up blues can really make your farming sesions take longer and have less benefits.


What it really depends on is how much time you have to spend on things, and how FAST you want to accomplish certain goals.

For one thing, most of the characters I use are using ONLY self-found gear...so right there, you want to talk about waste of time? I'm not getting to MP10 or killing ubers solo nearly as fast as half the people on this forum. Because I'm doing it myself, the hard way. The way Diablo 2 fans would be playing Diablo 2 right now, quite frankly, because that game doesn't have an AH.

I bought Diablo 3 with the complete assumption that I'd be playing it for over 1000+ hours. You say it's a waste of money because salvaging could destroy an item that could go for 100k? Believe me, I know. I miraculously sold a 600 DPS, LOH, IAS dagger w/socket for about 600k on Auction the other day. Guess what. What do I need hundreds of millions/billions of gold for, if I'm not buying every piece of gear I wear?

Most of my money, aside from incredibly lowballed Auctions, is from vending. I go out and farm, I pick up a heap of blues and yellows. I vend all the blues (which, in Inferno, can actually net me a decent amount if I don't die...10 at 1k each, that's 10 grand). Then I split the yellows in half, salvage the lower priced and vend the higher priced to guarantee myself more rare materials. Does it take a while to max my materials? Sure, but that's the point...I'm not in a rush.

You say it's a waste of time, but again, I bought this game because I wanted a game to put 1000+ hours into. Most people bought a game to put 1000+ hours into, they go buy all the amazing gear (they should be finding) on the AH, and then cry because they're not finding good upgrades out in the world. Uh, well, derp? What did you think was going to happen? You were going to buy epic gear in the AH and then just find something else amazing out in the field? Damn near impossible. Me? I use pretty much all self-found gear (aside from my Wizard), and I find either upgrades or close to it practically all the time. Imagine that.

@Cardinal, you're an idiot. I'm not talking about making money, but everything has relative value. In order for this to be useful it has to be at LEAST equivalent to spending that gold on the AH. Saying "I never buy materials so they don't cost me anything" is absolutely idiotic since if you're using them, you NOT selling them. So they either cost you gold to buy or cost you gold that you didn't get by selling.


As for the OP's post here, keep in mind one thing...the way this game is designed, you can have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of gear pieces in one single session. Vexorian over there saying even PICKING UP blues is a waste of time AND money. But I don't see it that way. If something drops for me, after killing monsters, that's something I can use. Vexorian sees picking up blues as wasteful, because you can sell ONE rare on Auction for 100k and just buy the materials you need. When fact is, if I invest the time (which I've already said, I'm plenty willing to do), if I have a ton of blues I don't need, I can get the 100k AND materials AND I don't have to spend anything.

You say at the end, Zoid, that those items I salvage either cost me the gold to buy them or the gold I would get from selling, but that's kinda the nice thing about the RNG. I see some item with average to below average rolls, I'm fine with salvaging it. Because rolls like that are pretty likely to come up again, either on a piece for the same gear slot, or something like it. I look at everything I pick up, and while some people may see that as a waste of time, since I use only self-found gear on any characters other than my Wizard, I find upgrades pretty often.

Obviously, buying all your stuff from the AH means just about everything that drops is either vendor trash or Auction worthy. Me? I like building my characters from the ground up, not customizing every single thing via the AH, which really just leads you to the same gear sets that every other class has. Check peoples' profiles. It's madness seeing the same legs, the same sets, in the exact same places. It's all cookie cutter.

My self-found geared characters are making it to MP10 without the help of the AH, and it may take me another year, another two. I've been playing Diablo 1 since high school...trust me...I've got plenty of time. Only thing that'll stop me is Blizzard shutting the servers down, and I highly doubt that's happening any time soon.
Edited by CardinalMDM#1269 on 1/31/2013 10:24 AM PST
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01/31/2013 08:18 AMPosted by Javrius
It should be obvious that the new BoA crafted items are intended to appeal primarily to players who absolutely refuse to use the AH.


They are forced back into to using the ah they have to buy gold as it would take months to get gold to craft these self farmed. So how does that appeal to the players that are not using it?

01/31/2013 08:18 AMPosted by Javrius
However, since the items have the potential to be BiS, even better than things that currently drop, it gives those people who already have current BiS gear something to do, regardless of how they acquired it. It requires them to play the game (rather than just the AH), because Demonic Essences are BoA, but also allows them to use the AH to shortcut the other, substantial costs.


The amount of gold that it is going to take to achieve BIS rolls/combo is going to be ludicrously high. Again back to the above issues.
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Can you math geniuses tell me what are odds of

Razor spikes

220 int
160 STR
6 crit
70+ AR
200+ Armor affix

I need to see if it's worth trying to replace my 60m gold rares. Must cost less than 60m total cos u cant sell any of them.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 1/31/2013 1:15 PM PST
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01/30/2013 07:18 AMPosted by CardinalMDM
Um, why are people buying crafting materials, when farming can get them for you for free?


free?

You do realise that you can sell mats for gold and thus the gold cost has to be considered

another big issue with the new crafting stuff is the fact its accound bound. So if you already have 1 account bound amulet, the new ones you craft MUST be better or else they are wasted money aswell. (unless you hit the jackpot and roll an amulet that would be good for all clases due to 5near perfect mods)
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The probability is much more complicated than that as you could roll a godly amulet with 5 or even 4 affixes (if trifecta) worth way more than 20 mil (for rare equivalent)

I would like to have seen one "kicker" though for each piece beyond main stat. For example, gloves could have mainstat and 7-9 ASI. Ammy could have mainstat and 7-10 CC, etc.
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01/30/2013 10:32 PMPosted by Grimiku
I think there's a decent amount of players who will benefit from these new recipes, especially since the recent update to the PTR increases the core stat range for most of the pieces. You can read more about recent PTR changes right [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/8414570/Public_Test_Realm_--_Patch_107_Notes_Updated_130-1_30_2013"]here [/url]and please let us know what you think about the [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/8414570/Public_Test_Realm_--_Patch_107_Notes_Updated_130-1_30_2013#crafting "]crafting [/url]updates.


The only people that MIGHT benefit from it are people with 5 billion gold to waste on randomly rolled gear they have to pay for, just like with normal gear. There. Is. No. Difference.

That, or Mat Cauthon. Are YOU Mat Cauthon?
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I listed all the possible affixes that people would consider useful. Now we'll have mainstat always, that's a given. The trouble comes from the other stats. There are 30 total possible affixes that can roll on an amulet. Out of those, in order to get a truly great amulet, you need all 6 to at least roll one of the useful affixes. The probability of this happening is
(10/30)*(9/30)*(8/30)*(7/30)*(6/30)=about a .1% chance, or 1 in 1000.


The math is obviously wrong.
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Crafting in general needs to be changed.

The best way to do it is to add punitive affix selections to the crafter during the crafting process.

Amulet?

First affix is obligatory and costs nothing more than the base cost of crafting.

Every affix selected past that point increases the base cost of crafting.

And so on and so forth. So for someone selecting a full 6 affixes, the cost of crafting the amulet should be in the millions. The values should still be random though. So you may select all 6 but get a very mediocre item.

I believe weapons and armor should work on the same principle.


good idea!
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The probability is much more complicated than that as you could roll a godly amulet with 5 or even 4 affixes (if trifecta) worth way more than 20 mil (for rare equivalent)

I would like to have seen one "kicker" though for each piece beyond main stat. For example, gloves could have mainstat and 7-9 ASI. Ammy could have mainstat and 7-10 CC, etc.


agree with having another "kicker" stat, if you remember crafting in D2, and even runewords, most items you made had more than one primary stat type that was guaranteed, though the amount was random. other stat rolls were random. the crafting items we are getting next patch only have one main stat roll and 5 random ones. As has been said many times, that is just too random and the chances are far too small to likely be worth it. If the crafted items chosen had a combination of 3-5 potential modifiers of which 2-3 were guaranteed to be chosen, in combination with a few totally random modifiers, people would be more likely to want to craft. Using this method in D2, some of the best gloves/boots/rings/amulets you could possibly get were the ones you crafted after many many tries.

Crafting as it is in D3 will surely help some people, but unfortunately it seems only poor players will have much desire to use it, and they generally do not have the resources to craft over and over until something good comes. The rich who can afford to blow gold and mats, really have little to gain considering their chances, and will be far more content with getting exactly what they pay for through trade or AH.

If crafting is supposed to be a gold sink, it should give more incentive to all players with more predictable stats, so the actual investment is worthy of what generally is created. The crafted items will generally likely be upgrades for the poor who cannot afford to craft hundreds of times, and will give incentive to the rich who can afford to craft forever, hoping to get a slightly better version of what they currently use.

Some people will surely get lucky, but as of now the crafted items probably will not be good enough to change the crafting world. Just consider how hellfire rings turned out, main stat, exp bonus, fireball proc, randoms. Not many people have a hellfire ring that actually competes with a good rare or legendary in terms of power, it generally is something people gimp themselves with to level faster, or follower trash. We will have a similar situation with the new crafted items if all we get for sure is primary stat choice.
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BoA gear...another brilliant idea ported to a Diablo game from WoW.
Seriously, you guys and your devs need to stop rehashing WoW mechanics and putting them into Diablo.
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Decrease the gold needed... i think craft gears is waste gold :S. The blacksmith is your friend and he can do his job for less gold ;)

And now the items 61, 62 will be crap and nobody will craft them :S.
Edited by Athlas#1426 on 1/31/2013 3:35 PM PST
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you have to keep in mind Blizzard is very wary of anything that jeopardizes the AH, they're worried will start bot/farming hellfires to make quick millions, so they make these very decent craftables "bind to account"

we all know the AH is the only way they're making money off this game, like they would introduce anything that would destroy the AH, think again.

all I want is a guaranteed brim off of crap hellfires and other BOA gear. is that too much to ask?
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Life steal would be a pretty cool stat to have on ammys....
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01/30/2013 10:32 PMPosted by Grimiku
I think there's a decent amount of players who will benefit from these new recipes, especially since the recent update to the PTR increases the core stat range for most of the pieces. You can read more about recent PTR changes right [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/8414570/Public_Test_Realm_--_Patch_107_Notes_Updated_130-1_30_2013"]here [/url]and please let us know what you think about the [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/8414570/Public_Test_Realm_--_Patch_107_Notes_Updated_130-1_30_2013#crafting "]crafting [/url]updates.


The price to craft these amulets needs to be lowered DRASTICALLY. As it stands now, the odds make it almost impossible to get your money's worth. Crafting is supposed to be something that feels good because you made it yourself. There is nothing special about a crafting system that encourages players to spend their gold on something that is guaranteed to benefit them (GAH).

This is the only important factor that players need to observe:

The amount of gold you will have to spend on crafting in order to obtain an item of a specified value will ALWAYS exceed the gold you can spend to get an item with the same value on the AH. This is the ONLY reason that the crafting system does not work and will continue to fail.

There is absolutely no reason for a player to gamble all their money away when they could take that very same money and make an intelligent selection on an upgrade. The odds literally force this predicament on every single player. Only the luckiest of players will benefit from this system in the wide scope of things.

On top of all that, your investment into this new BoA crafting is non-refundable. You cannot sell anything you have created, therefore your investment is almost guaranteed to fail. Your only possible return on investment is the power you gain from wearing a piece of gear that will almost certainly not be better than what you could have spent in the AH.

I dare anyone to refute this logic.
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