Diablo® III

Calamity about to get hit with a "nerf"?

01/18/2013 09:08 AMPosted by hmk21
i cant see existing weapons being changed.... new rolls, sure.

I don't see how that is possible because the issues is not the Damage affix
it is just the way max is calculated as min+1 when (min+BonusMin) > max

if it is 'hard coded' once onto the item like a permenant fingerprint, and the item Can't be changed.. that would kinda be nice I guess, e.g. Hold onto your Min/max weapon because we could have another legacy issue

I don't really have the market pangs, I am more concerned with the DPS being accurate, and performing what it says
Edited by zoid#1554 on 1/18/2013 9:22 AM PST
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the whole idea of everyone DPS being negatively affected just doesn't seem what blizzard would do as they've shaped this game based on the majority vote, and this would cause severe backlash.

01/18/2013 09:21 AMPosted by zoid
Hold onto your Min/max weapon because we could have another legacy issue


agreed.
Edited by hmk21#1716 on 1/18/2013 9:35 AM PST
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01/18/2013 09:21 AMPosted by zoid
e.g. Hold onto your Min/max weapon because we could have another legacy issue


it's all hearsay of course, but we have to wonder if this is in the IAS category, or legacy category. and we know what they did with IAS...

honestly, it would feel wierd to be playing with a "known bug". I'm guessing they will turn current weapons into "legacy" (or new branding), and fix new calamities/etc.

that will actually make current weapons worth more :)

o/
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Yeah, I am not happy with Blizzard right now.

They did a crappy job of itemization with the new legendary bow/xbows because quite simply they made the Manticore far superior in DPS in comparison to the legendary 1H Xbows and Bows. There shouldn't be a dramatic DPS difference between using a 1H XBow, a 2H XBow, or a 2H Bow, they should result in similar DPS to allow playstyle diversity. As it stands now if you prefer the playstyle of the 2H Bow or 1H XBow the result is you're going to do less DPS.

Now they're "fixing" an issue and making the situation even worse, and making Manticore even more superior to Calamity or other options than it already was, and that is just plain wrong. If they are going to do that then they need to buff all the Calamities and perhaps release a good rare legendary bow. Sure, Windforce is great, but if you don't like the knockback your alternative to using bows is a rare which isn't a very good option.

I'll still use my Calamity, but it will leave a very sour taste in my mouth.
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@veritech

the whole ASI/IAS issue came up because that seemed to be what virtually every class started to stack. Whether it be a barb or a DH. I almost look at it the old ASI/IAS issue like "pickup radius" now. everyone para farming or just plain farming wants pickup radius. You have gear with pickup radius on it .. most likely it will sell and sell for a lot more than same gear without pickup on it.

Blizzard stated they didn't want the ASI/IAS this to be the primary affix to be looked at for all classes. Gear spiraled out of control form a price perspective if it had IAS/ASI on it. If memory serves, blizzard stated too fast of attack speeds were or could cause issues with their servers (ie you were shooting things way too fast for their servers to track and respond to. Prices for IAS/ASI were through the roof back in the earlier days and the nerf to 1/2 the IAS/ASI on gear was implemented (although some gear took a lot more than 50% asi reduction)

I think Zoid is trying to say the issue is not unique and only applies to the Calamity. It is with particular weapons or even other gear with certain damage ranges (see page 1 for his research). If there are other 1h weapons falling into this category (such as EF as zoid mentions) the issue would expand way beyond one particular legendary weapon such as the calamity causing an impact to a huge number of players with the potential of affecting more than 1 character each plays..

Would I have a problem using my calamity, which by calculation is 44 dps higher than it maybe should be, from this point forward? Not at all. I'm sure there are so many weapons falling into this bug-hell-hole I don't feel it is a very small subset of calamity users only experiencing this bug/issue. I believe zoid said for a calamity if it hits like +226 or +227 min damage you have passed the threshold of "correct dps calculation" on the weapon. For higher end calamities all would fall into this category I'm sure. For the lower end calamities the calculations should be correct and not be any type of issue. Of course that last statement by me is a general statement.
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Yeah, I am not happy with Blizzard right now.

They did a crappy job of itemization with the new legendary bow/xbows because quite simply they made the Manticore far superior in DPS in comparison to the legendary 1H Xbows and Bows. There shouldn't be a dramatic DPS difference between using a 1H XBow, a 2H XBow, or a 2H Bow, they should result in similar DPS to allow playstyle diversity. As it stands now if you prefer the playstyle of the 2H Bow or 1H XBow the result is you're going to do less DPS.

Now they're "fixing" an issue and making the situation even worse, and making Manticore even more superior to Calamity or other options than it already was, and that is just plain wrong. If they are going to do that then they need to buff all the Calamities and perhaps release a good rare legendary bow. Sure, Windforce is great, but if you don't like the knockback your alternative to using bows is a rare which isn't a very good option.

I'll still use my Calamity, but it will leave a very sour taste in my mouth.


Doesn't mean they are going to 'FIX' it. as zoid said this may encompass a lot of weapons and making the change may not prove to be beneficial from a political standpoint to the players.

As far as making the manti the "flagship" type of bow .... I have no problem with it even though I don't really use one except for strafe builds.

Many other classes have that 2h SKORN to look at. If you are virtually any class (other than DH) who want to use a 2h weapon. What are you gonna use? There is virtually only one choice for all the classes and that is SKORN. Sure there are a few 2h set weapons that can give buffs to make them appealing but SKORN still rules the entire 2H Weapon arena.

I would say they shouldn't gimp 1h users. And I feel they should increase the ASI on DW from 15% to 20% to be max based on DML Max. Since you will automatically be giving up upwards of 10% CC and potentially a large amount of DEX/VIT/Hatred-Regen/CC from a dml quiver.. at least compensate the ASI to the max of 20% as a consolation prize for DW. Then the loss of the hatred regen or dex/vit/CC can be made up for with CD or LOH on the weapon you want to DW. A trade-off persay.

anyhooooo I've rambled enough.
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@Bubbagump

Hand Crossbow and Bow stat priorities are more similar than you may think. My current gear doesn't reflect it but IAS and +DMG are key.

@Merlin

I don't think you're looking at the big picture. Many people who tried Calamity for kicks decided to stick with it, despite the DPS loss vs Manticore. There's a difference between character "sheet" DPS and EDPS. There's a reason why I chose a rare bow over a 1300 DPS 2 socket Manticore. Just like I'm sure there's a reason why you chose Calamity.
It sounds like you're concentrating too much on numbers and now enough in game feel; theory =/= practice.

Rare bows are very good options by the way.
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there is a chance the listed bug was unrelated to the issue I am discussing.. i find that hard to believe however

the feature of max = min+1
that make hellions a PRIME candidate for inflated damage to the feature

e.g if it is INTENDED, this means the hellion indeed gets the most bang since it min damage is close to max and a good +min roll will overwhelm the max...

while a revenant bow wont because its min-max range is so wide.

it is that discrepancy makes me think the listed bug is in fact an issue
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I hope they don't do this. I recently spent the bulk of my available gold on upgrading my calamity and it's really nice to have options rather than every DH using a manticore.
Manticores are already getting upgraded in 1.07 vs calamity by virtue of the new gems.
Edited by Larvi#1905 on 1/18/2013 11:21 AM PST
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it's a buff
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7593742992?page=3#49

the issue is +minimum damage is intendedto be added to the base max

the bug currently is max becoming (minBase+minimum+1)

the issue is resolved by maxBase(275 calamity) +minimum +maximum * ed% =

if this works out my top end will increase to 1336, from 1000
that would be a huge buff to damage, for all 'black weapons'
Edited by zoid#1554 on 1/18/2013 11:21 AM PST
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What, it's a buff not a nerf? Now I'm confused.
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01/18/2013 12:13 PMPosted by Myon
What, it's a buff not a nerf? Now I'm confused.


Is my bow getting Chenney-ed or Obama-ed? I too am confused.
Edited by Pillz#1495 on 1/18/2013 12:19 PM PST
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lol
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if they were to recalculate as the formula on the other post says (thanks for the link zoid)

would be a buff for calamities since they are black weapons and it has most affect on black weapons since elemental is calculated after damage.

Would turn my 1174dps calamity into a 1464dps calamity which in turn would boost my overall DPS based on my build by 48k
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That is a pretty big buff though and i just dont honestly see blizzard being that generous. But if they did do that it would save 1handers and make dual wielding worthy and competitive to 2hander.
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Way to many people already have exisiting weapons like this, including myself. From the math i am seeing my calamity would take a pretty big hit, but so would alot of other peoples weapons.

I can see a grandfather on this one, new weps that drop will have the correct forumla. Old weps will stay the same.

I wouldnt quit if they did make the change, even though dps on calamity would go from 1338 into the 1200's but i can see alot of classes not just dhs rage quitting. Especially the ones that spent real money months ago on ef's and such or black weapons that calaculated incorrectly.

In the same sense dhs usually get the nerfs, so i can also see them just fixing this on bows and xbow and once again shafting the almighty dh that so many people are already crying about in ptr and dueling.

hopefully that jw is gone, they will leave it alone, since it is not game breaking and people have been playing with it this way the whole time.
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I think you are all wrong, actually.

From what I can tell, the affix that the "known issues" list is talking about is "minmaxdam" (min-max bonus):

•MinMaxDam Affix is calculating the damage bonus on weapon incorrectly.

If I read this correctly, that applies to the affix that is found on amulets and rings, not the +min or +max damage on weapons. You can see this by going to any Diablo 3 site that lists affixes (minmaxdam is specifically called that, and not +max or +min)

If this truly was something with +min and +max dmg on weapons, ALL weapons that have a tight spread between base minimum and maximum damage values will be nerfed beyond comparison (particularly, crossbows).

I think you guys are worried over nothing.
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nice
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There definitely appears to be a nerf coming and I see why. The issue is extra damage is being generated, because Blizzard thinks the minimum damage has overcome the maximum damage and is incorrectly buffing the weapon (it is comparing base weapon min damage with the minimum black damage to the max base weapon damage only to see if the max needs to be tweaked so minimum is never greater than the maximum. Notice it is not checking base max weapon damage + max black damage which it should be doing. If they correct this logic, items like Skorn, Calamity, rare black items, Butcher's Sickles, and Echoing Fury might get hurt and you need to find out.

The easiest way to know if you are screwed and by how much is to check the base weapon damage of your legendary. If your black minimum damage on the weapon is greater than the difference of the base weapon's damage maximum vs minimum. So say if you have a Legendary Exorcist (i.e. Calamity), if your minimum damage on your weapon is greater than 225 (which is base max damage of 275 - base min damage of 50) you are going to get hurt. Higher you are from this difference more you get hurt.

I squeaked by with my Calamity since I couldn't afford a better one, but I am getting hit with my Barbarian. Blizzard really dropped the ball on this and is going to absolutely kill itemization with it.
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See but this is going to ruin a lot of good gear and further ruin the DH class into being nothing but a manticore fest. A lot of people might rage quit because this is huge and affects a vast amount of players in all classes
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