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I've found that I can do a 1hr run and not get a legend so i'm all for ways to encourage shorter sessions, since at least then you won't feel like you've wasted 1,2, 3 hours of your time. I think 30 minutes would be an ideal length.
Also, I see NV as Blizz's insidious way of 'encouraging' long-form farming (don't log out, you'll lose NV!) Since it can take me 10-15 minutes to find 5 rare packs, that 1hr sesh turns into 45min so I'm really only getting 75% efficiency.
I'd be happy for NV to be moved to permanently applied buffs. This game is already compulsive enough, we don't need any more reasons to keep playing and playing and playing.
I would also be happy with the ridiculous NV penalty being removed from skill changes. It's just another artificial way to keep us playing.
It offers nothing, it simply removes options when you would not have enough stacks to make it efficient. The purpose is to prevent. Get that clear guys, it is a limiting tool.
So, basically, any reward that you don't get is a punishment?
NV was intended to give people a reward for more difficult gameplay: creating and playing a build that can handle a diverse array of situations, rather than constantly switching to the best build for each encounter.
Constant switching would be easier, but more tedious. Without NV, people would feel compelled to switch, which wouldn't be fun.
How can they please both sides? Some people want to switch constantly, because they don't care about their characters having any identity, they just want to perform well. Other people want to develop a build and stick with it. Neither side wants to feel stupid for deliberately throwing away an advantage.
This, obviously, was discussed a lot during development. NV was the result, and it works pretty well for most: it rewards sticking with a build, while still allowing people to change and experiment. If your build isn't working, then at worst, you've wasted a couple minutes -- unlike the hours or days spent building a character in Diablo II, for instance.
Nope, A reward is small period where you have a gain of something extra, whereas a punishment is a small period where you have less than you would normally have.
This is a small opening period of less than usual, following by a prolonged period of normal farm rate.
This classifies as a punishment. The changed nephalem from bosses for example would feel like a reward because it it not just an increase in basic farm level that you are nerfing yourself when not abusing. It is a small period of extra gain.
Also, there is a thing such as too many rares. We dont need more rares, they become trivial, abundant and do not feel very rare.
And what do you think the community thinks of the thought process of that period? :)
Edited by Nocturnal#2168 on 1/9/2013 9:44 PM PST
Rather than re-wording posts I've made in the past to make it seem like I'm saying some new and shiny, I'm going to link you to a response I provided on a similar subject a weeks back.
Instead of having the need to have NV to stop people changing skills, how about you return the skill points and weapon masteries so that it stops people doing so? this is the main reason i think most people arent playing anymore and its certainly the reason i played alot of Diablo 2 and think this game is way off the pace.
Even if i got to level 80 with a character in D2, and found out i had ruined my skills i had no problems with going back and remaking my character at all. There is absolutely no difference between anyones ungeared characters at level 60. Thus there is no build diversity which has made this game pretty rubbish so far. Off course the reasoning was to make Items the sole purpose of the game and give Blizzard a way to make more money off the game. But it simply killed the game altogether.
Now we cant have any proper low level Duelers because the skills made available would be the same as everyone else between that level range and the low level gear is absolute rubbish. I have no idea how PVP will even work, the majority of every barbarian every demon hunter and every other character have the exact same builds, striving for exactly the same gear. What will be the difference in winning or losing a dual is how good the roll on those items that your using is compared to the next guy your versing.
More power to you then. NV offers many options in the way you want to optimize your run.
With nv you have the option of optimizing several different routes as evidenced by the several different XP and loot runs. You also have the option of doing extremely short runs as evidenced by crypt of the ancients run.
Without NV the best XP route will be one optimized short run that is short, mundane and more repetitive than the current D3. I suspect crypt of the ancients is that best route.
NV is a really smart and original mechanic in my opinion since it provides incentives for people to maximize efficiency around the more challenging content in D3(elites) which equals fun to some degree. It rewards doing full runs but still provides the option of doing extremely short runs... it also opens up many possibilities for different runs. That last part could use further improvement since although there is a variety of different XP runs , they are mostly centered in Act 3.
Not really going to discuss the skill part since that was done due to a huge majority wanting it. I questioned it when I was new but now I'm indifferent and get both sides.
Edited by hampster#1586 on 1/9/2013 11:36 PM PST
Please, don't remove NV... Of course you have a higher chances with 5 stacks. But it happens often enough to me, that I find a legendary before having the fifth one (and you find enough yellows, too)!
It's the only thing that makes the builds some what resisting! ...and no, skill-points won't come back ;-)
I'm not gonna change my skills anyways. The only time you want to change your skills, for a monk at least, if you get in a public match or a party and there is another monk and you are both using the same mantra. Other than that I don't see why it would concern anybody so much.
Why would anyone want NV removed? That would make me mad.
Hey MasterJay, explain how Lylirra "schooled" the OP "really hard". To me, it looks like Lylirra said nothing new and that the theme of the post is that Blizzard admits it still has been working on improving Nephalem Valor, and might still have some more work to do. So, there is a difference of opinion between the OP and Lylirra/Blizzard and that's about it. OP believes NV isn't necessary and should removed. Lylirra (somewhat) admits NV needs to be improved.
1. SC2 has offline single player.
2. People who play multiplayer when they know there is a high chance of interruption have no leg to stand on.
We're talking about idle disconnects for d3 single player (i.e. playing alone in an un-joinable game). Improving the gameplay experience for players who must frequently AFK for over 15 minutes but under 1 hour enhances customer value for those players. Raising the idle disconnect threshold to 60 minutes should have no negative influence on you, unless you derive happiness from the frustration of others.
Simplest solution: allow us to move btween acts using waypoint system like in D2 and on top of that allow us to be able to kill all bosses even if we choose different quest, again like in d2
atm we r stuck in a3 keyfarming, because its only place in game with high density mobs, not cool
NV is an interesting concept that makes a good attempt at:
1) Removing 'single path' farm routes - Stopping Bots
2) Exposing the player to more threats/combination of elites - More Variance in Play
3) Limiting player's skill variation - thus allowing players to specialise in builds
4) Provide bonuses to EXP/MF/GF - creating a chance for co-op between players
However a good attempt it is at doing the above 4, it did NOT actually do it.
1) Bots still run rampant - and the developer must still invest time and effort in removing bots which are becoming smarter
2) Elites are no longer threatening - why did the developer remove Invulnerable Minions and/or other deadly combos?
3) How many builds are there per class?
4) Co-op is STILL not as efficient as solo-ing.
So... lets just leave NV the way it is, give the developer some credit for his attempt in solving the fundamental problems with just 1 solution
1) Prevention is always better than Cure and Mitigation. Preventing Bots can be done via many different ways, starting from the way in which players interact with game data/messages, all the way up to the point where you COMPLETELY randomise dungeons to the extent whereby its more difficult for Bots to path.
2) Make elites harder again. Instead of making the abilities hit harder, make the abilities SMARTER. Example: freezing orbs, arcane beams, molten that cover the whole screen or up to a certain yard away from the elite that's casting it. Horde which focuses on surrounding players. Fast which reacts more towards avoiding players. Poison which slows players down (or reduces healing). Shielding with less duration, but higher frequency.
3) Re-balancing classes is hard. I'm not going to go into it today.
4) Completely remove +HP bonuses for monsters during grouping - or provide bonus EXP for each additional player in a party. If you really wanna learn from your mates, learn from wow developers.
The only time I personally care about the NV stacks is trying to get those damn keys! Sometimes it takes 5 minutes others 15 to get all 5 stacks and then trying to find the Key Warden in that act.
I know it'll never happen, but if we could change acts and still keep our NV I'd be perfectly happy. Why can one game only exist in one act?
*edit - misspelled words
Edited by DNRCMO#1329 on 1/10/2013 5:51 AM PST
Can you just introduce a mp11 (harder than mp10) that that puts in place a permanent NV buff at all times from the moment you enter the game and maybe adds another 1-2 random affixes to elite packs?
I doubt many (if any) could do any play less than a minute under those circumstances.
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