Diablo® III

Vrkhyz, · · · — — — · · · !

I was patiently and rather nonchalantly waiting for your spreadsheets to come out of beta (or whatever development stage you currently have them in), but something wonderful happened tonight and - as the Enchantress is so fond of saying - I can wait no longer!

A lovely Nat's ring dropped for me few hours ago, with the coveted CC roll. It's only 4%, but hey - the prices on those babies were what initially put me off the Nat's boots and ring combo for my build. Now I'm stuck with a new dilemma - is it worth giving up my Skull Grasp and Ice Climbers for the Nat's set?

I checked on D3Up and I'm expected to gain a little over 11K DPS by switching over, but I'll have to give up almost 50 AR and quite a bit of HPs, the tally adding up to a loss of some 88K EHP (ouch!). Now, I know it may seem I've currently overdone it in those areas and probably could stand to lose some on both fronts, I just take my face-tanking very seriously.

What's bugging me most of all (and the primary reason for addressing this post to Vrkhyz, in particular), is the 10% bonus to FoT on the Skull Grasp. I have no clue what my real DPS comes up to and what portion of it is due to the skill bonuses from this ring and my Radiance.

Would it be much of a bother if I ask you to run my current stats, as seen in my profile through your spreadsheets and let me know what DPS value comes out and how much of it will I lose, if the Skull Grasp is taken out of the equation?

And if Vrkhyz, of course, is actually wasting his weekend boozing and cruising and getting generally involved with all sorts of leisurely activities that do not include looking after us poor misguided n00bs, could some of the other math-wiz-y sort of benevolent entities chime in with any advice or suggestion? It will be all very much appreciated, regardless of source!
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I'll see what I can do.
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Well, I must be doing something right, because entering your armor and weapon stats gave me this:

http://imgur.com/BWtCt

I had to add the set bonuses directly to the item stats themselves, but incorporating a column for set bonuses is low on my list. I can tell you have the Enchantress active, too, although I just left my Enchantress skill selections in place, which is why you see Charm instead of Forceful Push in that screen capture.

So, let's see . . . damage. I'll be back.
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Here's my best estimate of your current EDPS:

http://imgur.com/KiLwp

I added a line (row 31) for the WKL's lightning buff, which I hadn't incorporated yet. I assumed that it applied to the following:

1. Thunderclap main attack
2. Thunderclap AOE
3. Sweeping Wind tornadoes (but not vortex)

I also assumed that your pair of 10% FoT bonuses are additive with each other but multiplicative with other buffs. So I updated the formulas in rows 43 and 44 so that they now include FoT buffs.

Finally, I assumed that Overawe and Blazing Wrath are up 100% of the time, which is why row 30 ("Additive damage buffs (total %)") displays 63%.

If you give me the stats for the potential replacements, as well as the set bonuses they provide in combo, I should be able to tell you which option would be better. I can also quite clearly demonstrate how much better Faith in the Light would be than Blazing Wrath:

http://imgur.com/RWrag

Your EDPS would go from 639K to 746K. I don't know many monks who need a 7K heal so badly that they should give up 17% EDPS for it :)

BTW, for being the impetus to get a few of these little annoyances coded into the spreadsheet, this copy is yours to keep. Leave your e-mail address here, or contact me in-game. I'll make the first draft of the spreadsheet available to everyone by Monday night.
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I'm currently experiencing a severe lack of words to explain exactly how grateful I'm that you've taken the time to go through all that trouble on my behalf, so you'll have to forgive me for going with a simple thank you!

Now, I went through those printouts and although I'm most certainly missing some fundamental facts, I have to say that my total damage output even against single target, never mind SW and Cyclones, turns out to be much higher than I expected.

So far I was going with the rough assumption that I should take my paper DPS, add 10% to account for the 110% by FoT alone, slap in another 20% for gear bonuses to skill, throw on top of it another 15% for Blazing Wrath and 24% for Overawe, multiply the whole mess by 1.23 for the sake of my WKL, stay clear of the 5% bonus to my MH black weapon and arrive, slightly disoriented, at a DPS figure in the 170K range... Well - boy, was I wrong and glad because of it! (% It really makes me appreciate you efforts at a double rate (although, considering my aforementioned display of math skillz, you'll be well within your rights to have some doubts about my concept of 'double').

If you want to do the exercise of swapping out my Skull Grasp and Ice Climbers for Nat's combo, I'll be more than happy to see what numbers come out it. The ring I found came with 88 Dex/ 8% IAS/ 4% CC. Don't have readily available boots from the set, but for argument's sake let's assume I'll be looking for a pair with identical Dex bonus to the one I'm currently sporting on the Ice Climbers (180). The rest of the stats on both items should not impact the DPS outcome, so basically all that will be added after the change is the 7% CC for Nat's 2 piece bonus.

However I'm getting the gut feeling that the result won't come out as a substantial enough DPS gain, to warrant the loss of 10% bonus to FoT + 50-ish Dex, even if we leave the substantial EHP drop completely out of the picture. I stand ready to be proven wrong once again. (%

Also, thank you for the suggestion for switching over to FitL. I've tried it out before, and although the numbers may point otherwise - it doesn't taste like my cup of tea. The way I look at it - FitL provides a a strong damage bonus, but for 3 sec only, then you have to deal with another 12 sec of cooldown before the next shot, while for all purpose and intention BW is a permanent flat 15% boost all around. Probably works well if going for a speed clear and 3 sec is about enough to kill everything in sight, but I'm mostly doing MP 7 these days and some of the stuff there takes its time to die.

There's also the SW snapshot technique to consider, which would greatly benefit from being cast immediately after FitL, I imagine, but I don't like snapshotting, in general, and am too lazy to keep SW constantly up, to avoid the hassle of re-casting it. Yeah, I suck at this game.

Oh - and before I forget, if you want to run any tests in the future on the subject of whether skill bonuses are additive or multiplicative, I have my old rare Spirit Stone (10% to FoT) and another Skull Grasp (another 7%) lying around my stash - you can have them, if you like.
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Vrk, you're too nice
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01/12/2013 02:22 PMPosted by KamelJabber
Vrk, you're too nice


Isn't he, just! Truly makes you wish more people around were like him...
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he's the resident mathemagician - see what i did there?

whenever threads come up talking numbers, i just wait for Vrkhyz to come in and confirm or deny them. only Vrk approved figures bear any weight around here!

keep up the good work, mate!
Edited by MrMojoRisin#6850 on 1/12/2013 3:04 PM PST
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Appreciate it, guys, but I'm not taking a break from the first OT of Broncos-Ravens to do anything else right now :)

@Laurelynd: If you see me in game, I'll be happy to test those two items. Also, the FitL numbers I showed assume that you snapshot it for SW, which is where a lot of the value comes from. It took me a while to warm up to it, but I did eventually.
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01/12/2013 05:38 PMPosted by Vrkhyz
@Laurelynd: If you see me in game, I'll be happy to test those two items. Also, the FitL numbers I showed assume that you snapshot it for SW, which is where a lot of the value comes from. It took me a while to warm up to it, but I did eventually.


I sent you a friend request to give you the pieces. I'll try to look you up tomorrow, calling it an early night this evening.

Fiddled around with FitL some more today, still feels kinda clunky. Perhaps it's an acquired taste sort of thing. Got killed by a RD pack I tired to tank as usual, should have seen it coming.
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We all should nominate Vrkhyz for MVP status...just sayin.
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01/13/2013 02:50 AMPosted by Cerealbawks
We all should nominate Vrkhyz for MVP status...just sayin.


seconded!
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I appreciate the sentiment, but please don't. The biggest problems with being an MVP-type poster, IMO, are (1) some people mistakenly seem to think you have some extra clout, so they react more strongly to any suggestions or opinions you give because they're worried it's somehow/somewhat official, and (2) other people assume that the MVP somehow thinks his opinion carries more weight, even though it doesn't and even if the MVP knows it doesn't. Green text would be cool, but I think it has too many drawbacks.
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I found a helm in my stash with an 11% FoT bonus, so I decided to load up my test gear and try beating on Ghom again. I learned one very important thing: Skill bonuses are additive with bonuses like Blazing Wrath. The +20% Damage to Demons affix is separate, as is any elemental damage bonus (like those on Zuni boots). I'll probably have to tweak my spreadsheet again, but it's kinda early in the morning to be attempting that :)
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Still not sure whether WKL's lightning buff is additive with other bonuses or multiplicative. Laurelynd, any chance I can borrow yours for a short run on Ghom and his demonic blobs?
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01/13/2013 07:30 AMPosted by Vrkhyz
Still not sure whether WKL's lightning buff is additive with other bonuses or multiplicative. Laurelynd, any chance I can borrow yours for a short run on Ghom and his demonic blobs?


Of course you can. Actually, if you're not very picky about the stats, I can give you a crappy one to experiment on to your heart's content. Let's give it some quite life of noble if occasional use, instead of taking it to the salvage anvil, where useless Legendaries end their short spanned lives.
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I found a helm in my stash with an 11% FoT bonus, so I decided to load up my test gear and try beating on Ghom again. I learned one very important thing: Skill bonuses are additive with bonuses like Blazing Wrath. The +20% Damage to Demons affix is separate, as is any elemental damage bonus (like those on Zuni boots). I'll probably have to tweak my spreadsheet again, but it's kinda early in the morning to be attempting that :)


I thought that was said somewhere.

01/13/2013 07:30 AMPosted by Vrkhyz
Still not sure whether WKL's lightning buff is additive with other bonuses or multiplicative. Laurelynd, any chance I can borrow yours for a short run on Ghom and his demonic blobs?


WKL and +% Elite is separate from damage bonus from skill and also separate from each other.

Blazing wrath + WKL + SOJ = 1.15 * 1.15-1.25 * 1.2-1.3
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Yeah, I think that was said somewhere, but I have no idea where. Hell, I can't even remember some of the things I've said, even when I say them on the first page of a two-page thread :)

Any, yes, I confirmed the WKL implementation, thanks to Laurelynd's loan of a 15% WKL for the purpose. I had a 48–48 damage axe and the WKL in the other hand. Given my stats, here's what I expected for each tornado:

48 AWD
x 18.8 (1780 DEX)
= 902.4
x 1.05 (5% elemental damage, a.k.a "black damage boost," on WKL)
947.52
x 1.15 (Blazing Wrath)_
= 1,089.648
x 1.15 (WKL's bonus to lightning skills)
= 1,253.0952
x 0.2 (20% damage per zap)
= 250.61904 (normal)
x 1.5 (+50% CHD)
= 375.92856

And I saw 251 and 376 in-game, so that looks good to go. Thanks, everybody!
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