Diablo® III

Bliz please let me play my alts again

01/11/2013 01:48 PMPosted by babinro
Since paragon levels were introduced I've probably put in less than 1 or 2 hours combined on my 2 level 60 alts.


You need to change your mindset. A couple hundred MF doesn't break the game when you have solid gear to farm efficiently.

If you truly can't live without the MF buy/farm a set of gear with that affix.
MF isn't exactly a chase affix anymore.


mf is kinda meaningless, but gf makes a huge difference. 150 gf = gold stacks cap out around 1500....250 gf = gold stacks cap out around 2500
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I played very little D2 and don't have a problem with the way Bliz did skills and runes in D3. If you want my opinion you can ask it, but no need to talk about something you don't like and then try to make me look bad by saying I probably agree with it, unless of course you have no argument against what I've said and are instead trying to misdirect the conversation.
What? Run on sentence, much? It's called a period, use it. Oh, and complete thoughts. Those are good too.

As far as "looking bad" you do that to yourself. Paragon doesn't need to be shared, end of story. Paragon is there to create something beyond 60 for your characters as it's woefully easy to level to 60. Paragon isn't meant to be easy or quick to obtain.

If you want your mf/gf, just sacrifice some gear affixes and put it on. Nothing is stopping you. What you want is to have your cake, a side of icecream, and then throw some sprinkles on it.
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Paragon level account wide? WORST idea ever!

-10000000000000000000
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no. paragon is free and you are not being forced to level just one character. there are thousands that are level 100 already including myself. we chose to put all our effort in one character before leveling another. that is our choice. you have to earn it and level all characters individually. no cheating. if not why not just have Blizzard create all characters level 60 for you too.


I don't understand why people are so opposed to the idea of the mf/gf being shared...you have a paragon level 100, you should understand the problem better than anyone, the point is if you do play an alt, you lose all that farming ability your paragon level 100 has...and if you continue to play the paragon level 100 char, you're just doing the same thing over and over again, like you've been doing for who knows how many hours. Some of us find that boring.

The whole point of the paragon system was to eliminate the need for mf/gf gear, not to make alts a huge waste of time/effort.


because paragon is a free bonus. we are not required to do so and it is our choice. they are giving it to use for free, do you know how much it would cost and have to sacrifice to have max gold and mf gear? not to mention free main stat and vit! it's like a child who got a brand new Xbox 360 and he complains what about my Playstation and Wii? how about this. why dont you and everyone else complaining about paragons level your chars equally? hit para 5 with your WD and then switch to your DH and level to 5. Then move to the next. They will all hit level 100 eventually and essentially at the same time.
Edited by blkdrgn#1658 on 1/11/2013 2:04 PM PST
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I don't understand why people are so opposed to the idea of the mf/gf being shared...you have a paragon level 100, you should understand the problem better than anyone, the point is if you do play an alt, you lose all that farming ability your paragon level 100 has...and if you continue to play the paragon level 100 char, you're just doing the same thing over and over again, like you've been doing for who knows how many hours. Some of us find that boring.

The whole point of the paragon system was to eliminate the need for mf/gf gear, not to make alts a huge waste of time/effort.


Except paragon levels are earned, for the ONE char you spent hours leveling up. Besides, why should all your char's have the same farming ability of your para-100? Why can't you just play your alts JUST FOR FUN and not care about loot? I mean not all of this game is about the most efficient way to get loot, is it?
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Yeah MF/GF should be account bound and is equal to your highest paragon level. However, I think the stat gains should only pertain to that paragon character, and if you want those stat gains on your other characters, you'll have to level them up.
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This is still retarded.

Why on earth do you think that your characters should level up if you don't play them...?
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01/11/2013 01:19 PMPosted by CompleatWych
Playing the game is, at least in part, grinding. That's really the essence of the experience. Whether or not the grind is fun is what is important. The term has become synonymous for "boring" only because it is often implemented poorly. Paragon Levels ARE a part of playing. If you are grinding P-Levels, then you are playing the game.

Once you've reached a certain level, all you do is grind for gold or for Plvl (which will grant you gold because of the gold find).

I prefer to spend my time elsewhere and flip the AH a few times per day. At the end of the day, I would have made much more gold than someone who is not flipping the AH unless he/she got lucky.

There's nothing to grind for (for me anyway). You get useless crafting materials if you grab blue items. You get gold if you grab rare items. You get a brimstone whenever you get a legendary. Gems are just stockpiled in our stash if they are not instantly sold for pocket change. Tomes are just something that is worth some gold if needed, else you leave them on the floor or just stockpile the,... In Diablo 2, we would constantly be finding something during our grind. Charms, Jewel... Perfect gems to re-roll our charms (and the carrot *reward* wasn't 100 miles away. Anyone could craft GCs with good skill bonus) or jewels. Lesser quality gem for crafting or upgrading runes. Runes would drop (which could be upgraded for cheap). Some white items were worth something (superior monarch). Gray items were interesting.

At the end of the day, you had a bunch of items that could be sold or used. You had a steady income, even if you don't have magic find or didn't find any unique item.

I'll see how Patch 1.07 turns out. They are supposed to address crafting. If crafting is made viable and fun, salvaging blue items might actually become fun again. I don't want to find the best item every run, but I want to know that I've made progress during the time I've spent. Paragon level is not enough.

01/11/2013 01:19 PMPosted by CompleatWych
The difference is brutal because this is an RPG and part of an RPG is that each character powers up on his/her own terms/time. So you say that the difference between loot and gold is massive between a new 60 and a high P-Level 60, and you're right, but so is the DPS, the AR, the Vitality, etc, etc... When you go from a character that you have developed well over time, to a fledgling character, the power will be less. Should we make DPS account wide as well so that no disparity is felt?

It's not about power or development, it's about gold. It's all about gold. Your newly leveled up character is "weaker" because you have probably not invested much gold into him/her yet. Naturally, there's a difference between a Plvl 0 and Plvl100, but most of the power comes from gear, which is bought through the AH. There's character development from level 1 to 60. There's no real development when you start grinding paragon level. All you gain is stats.

01/11/2013 01:19 PMPosted by CompleatWych
Why is it that MF/GF should be account wide according to P-Levels, but DPS should not? The rewards you get for Paragon Levels are no different than any other reward you receive in an RPG in that it is for THAT character and reflects time spent on THAT character. I know we have shared stashes and shared gold, but in this case, we aren't just talking a matter of convenience, we are talking about trivializing the RPG element of the game by making rewards that REALLY affect your character's relationship to the game world in super visible and tangible ways.

Blizzard wanted to get rid of magic find. What did they do? They made it even more powerful compared to Diablo 2. They introduced paragon level later on to take away the need of constantly be maxing magic find. That's fine... but you also have alt characters. If you want a decent amount of magic find on them, you will feel the need of grinding 10,15 or even more paragon level to have a respectable amount of magic find.

01/11/2013 01:19 PMPosted by CompleatWych
Also, and I asked this earlier in the thread, what is stopping someone from forgoing a "ERMAGERD DEEPS" gear set at a low P-Level and instead balancing their character out with a respectable amount of GF/MF? The answer? Nothing is.


People often choose to grind "X" amount of paragon level to have a respectable amount of magic find. Then, they may or not not choose to add additional magic find by paying the price.

Anyway, that's what I tell my friends. I always tell them to grind low level paragon level until they have enough magic find to make their time spent in higher MP "more worth it".
Edited by DoomBringer#1994 on 1/11/2013 2:20 PM PST
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01/11/2013 01:51 PMPosted by CyberGoat
What? Run on sentence, much? It's called a period, use it. Oh, and complete thoughts. Those are good too.


Subject? Predicate? See, I can make stupid grammar comments too. Way to go with the personal attack and still nothing useful said.
Edited by SilentMike69#1275 on 1/11/2013 4:22 PM PST
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Unfortunately the thing we cannot see in this discussion is the player base and what exactly is happening to it. If the Bliz bean counters make note of the fact that a large % of paragon 100s leave the game and do not come back or play alts then they would likely implement a feature like this. If they find that people hit 100 and then continue playing on that same character or move on to another then they've got no incentive to do so.

Since Bliz is about the most opaque company I know, we have absolutely zero access to any of this information and are left in the dark as to their intentions. From my personal experience, the friends I've got who have made 100 played like crazy to get there, and now rarely login. None of them play an alt for the MF/GF reasons I listed in the OP.


Then your friends are idiots thats all. The bottom line is this. Magic Find is essentially pointless. Its a modifier to a lottery ticket that doesn't add nearly as big of a benefit as you think it does.

Out of your paragon 100 friends how many of them are getting "phat lootz" on a daily basis before they quit?

If they are just playing to get big loot and not enjoy the game, then they would have no reason to quit once they hit paragon 100. The fact is they just are too lazy to level up another character, it has nothing to do with the loot they are getting from their insignificant magic find increase. If they are just playing for the loot and that increased MF is helping them so much then clearly being paragon 100 would mean they would want to play even more.

Do you see how bad your logic is? Tell your friends to stop being lazy.
Edited by databandit#1705 on 1/11/2013 4:29 PM PST
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Unfortunately the thing we cannot see in this discussion is the player base and what exactly is happening to it. If the Bliz bean counters make note of the fact that a large % of paragon 100s leave the game and do not come back or play alts then they would likely implement a feature like this. If they find that people hit 100 and then continue playing on that same character or move on to another then they've got no incentive to do so.

Since Bliz is about the most opaque company I know, we have absolutely zero access to any of this information and are left in the dark as to their intentions. From my personal experience, the friends I've got who have made 100 played like crazy to get there, and now rarely login. None of them play an alt for the MF/GF reasons I listed in the OP.


Then your friends are idiots thats all. The bottom line is this. Magic Find is essentially pointless. Its a modifier to a lottery ticket that doesn't add nearly as big of a benefit as you think it does.

Out of your paragon 100 friends how many of them are getting "phat lootz" on a daily basis before they quit?

If they are just playing to get big loot and not enjoy the game, then they would have no reason to quit once they hit paragon 100. The fact is they just are too lazy to level up another character, it has nothing to do with the loot they are getting from their insignificant magic find increase. If they are just playing for the loot and that increased MF is helping them so much then clearly being paragon 100 would mean they would want to play even more.

Do you see how bad your logic is? Tell your friends to stop being lazy.


First off you're wrong on MF. It may be a lottery ticket, but with 500%MF I just bought 5 instead of 1. And I think it is you who has the logical problem. Friend has PLVL 100 barbarian and level 60 WD. Sick to death of face roll barbarian after spinning for 700 hours and wants to play WD for some variety, but can't stand how little loot he gets compared to the barb. Friend says "forget it all, why do I even bother" and quits. How hard is that to follow?
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Unfortunately the thing we cannot see in this discussion is the player base and what exactly is happening to it. If the Bliz bean counters make note of the fact that a large % of paragon 100s leave the game and do not come back or play alts then they would likely implement a feature like this. If they find that people hit 100 and then continue playing on that same character or move on to another then they've got no incentive to do so.

Since Bliz is about the most opaque company I know, we have absolutely zero access to any of this information and are left in the dark as to their intentions. From my personal experience, the friends I've got who have made 100 played like crazy to get there, and now rarely login. None of them play an alt for the MF/GF reasons I listed in the OP.


Then your friends are idiots thats all. The bottom line is this. Magic Find is essentially pointless. Its a modifier to a lottery ticket that doesn't add nearly as big of a benefit as you think it does.

Out of your paragon 100 friends how many of them are getting "phat lootz" on a daily basis before they quit?

If they are just playing to get big loot and not enjoy the game, then they would have no reason to quit once they hit paragon 100. The fact is they just are too lazy to level up another character, it has nothing to do with the loot they are getting from their insignificant magic find increase. If they are just playing for the loot and that increased MF is helping them so much then clearly being paragon 100 would mean they would want to play even more.

Do you see how bad your logic is? Tell your friends to stop being lazy.


It has nothing to do about being lazy (getting to plvl100 requires a lot of dedication). Once you've hit plvl100, you're back to square one. Remember when we didn't have paragon level? Many, MANY people got fed up not getting anything and left the game because they felt like they accomplished nothing for the time they've spent. Paragon brought many people back. Guess what happens when they reach level 100? Yep, they'll leave again.

This game need more end-game. Let's hope that duel give us something else to do while the arena arrives... in a few months.

I don't know why you play the game, but I play it for the following reasons...
1) Try new build - I tried many builds, but the overwhelming majority of them felt lackluster.
2) Grind gear to become stronger - I can achieve that through the AH by flipping. I'm barely flipping nowadays...
3) To have fun - I've had my fun for the first hundred hours when I was still experimenting builds. Now, it's pretty stale. I'm taking a break from the game.
4) To play with friends - All my clan-mates left the game. I still have around 9 people on-line during the day, but the game itself punishes you for playing Co-op... There's nothing to do with my friends, except for uber runs (which is boring. I'm struggling to stay awake. Boss takes forever to kill but can barely kill you). At least, back then, you needed friends when you wanted to take on a boss (reviving each other! That Izual was a BEAST. Beating Belial was an achievement.)
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Friend has PLVL 100 barbarian and level 60 WD. Sick to death of face roll barbarian after spinning for 700 hours and wants to play WD for some variety, but can't stand how little loot he gets compared to the barb. Friend says "forget it all, why do I even bother" and quits. How hard is that to follow?


I would of just said: "Let me play that WD for fun for a couple of hours. Have a bunch of pets killing for me LOL".
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Friend has PLVL 100 barbarian and level 60 WD. Sick to death of face roll barbarian after spinning for 700 hours and wants to play WD for some variety, but can't stand how little loot he gets compared to the barb. Friend says "forget it all, why do I even bother" and quits. How hard is that to follow?


I would of just said: "Let me play that WD for fun for a couple of hours. Have a bunch of pets killing for me LOL".


New dumbest quote of the day, and once again talking about something which you do not understand. You sir have obviously never played a WD. Unless you spend a half billion gold on your 0 dog spec, your pets will most certainly NOT be doing any killing for you once you reach inferno. But I digress...
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I know the topic has been brought up before, but as 1.07 gets closer I'd ask Bliz to consider letting me play my alts again. Preferably, make paragon exp and levels apply to all my characters but at a minimum, make the MF/GF portion of paragon levels account bound. There is absolutely no reason not to do this other than the masochistic (but very vocal) few who will enjoy leveling a 2nd character to P100. For those folks, allow an option where this ability can be disabled and they can beat themselves senseless all they wish, even give them an achievement for being so persistent for all I care.

Since paragon levels were introduced I've probably put in less than 1 or 2 hours combined on my 2 level 60 alts. I'd like to play them on occasion but the thought of either having to deck them out in MF gear, or going hundreds of millions of exp between legendaries makes them 100% unplayable. While there are lots of other issues that need to be addressed and this is no silver bullet than can "save" the game, it is an incremental step to making the game more enjoyable for the majority of the customer base.


You really talk so seriously that I fail to believe this is not a troll.

*And for those who love paragon levels to be account-wide, or whatever that direction you want the devs to aim for; how about allow players to sell their paragon levels? I'll definitely be willing to sell you some of my paragon levels since I have 2 plvl60's. Go to RMAH and buy them. But I'm definitely against free lunch.
Edited by MisterAjikko#1937 on 1/11/2013 5:09 PM PST
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And what about people like me that already spread their pleveling across different characters and bought MF gear to compensate for spreading out my pleveling?

Why should I now be punished?
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Nevermind
Edited by DoomBringer#1994 on 1/11/2013 5:15 PM PST
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I would of just said: "Let me play that WD for fun for a couple of hours. Have a bunch of pets killing for me LOL".


New dumbest quote of the day, and once again talking about something which you do not understand. You sir have obviously never played a WD. Unless you spend a half billion gold on your 0 dog spec, your pets will most certainly NOT be doing any killing for you once you reach inferno. But I digress...


You seriously are missing the point of my post. I don't know much about WD's as that's the only char I haven't leveled to 60 yet. OK so pet don't kill for your friend, but there are other WD builds, right? He can't enjoy them simply because his WD isn't para-100 and "can't stand how little loot he gets"???

PS I seriously miss the necro of D2. D3's WD doesn't even look half as cool :(
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and a better idea when you start an account you get a level 60 paragon 100 with a stash full of legendaries so you can start the game easier....
and then every time you kill a boss you get 1 more level 60 paragon 100 character on your account

this is the best idea ever....not
just play the game and if you are not able to see that you dont like the gameplay of your toon before paragon 100 just change game or stop botting....

that 's why the game is ruined because of lazy player who want everything to be gave to them without doing anything for it
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