Diablo® III

AS bashing has got to stop

WDs these days spout their mouths like anyone with any attack speed on is a newb... lol. Remember in 1.02 before anyone had even heard of crit chance?

Seriously though, attack speed can be abused, and can elevate paper DPS when there isn't mana regen/ build to support it. Nonetheless, attack speed is usually the best thing to add when you already have a solid cc/cd gear with appropriate mana regen, PUR etc.

With mana bonuses from health globes, and constant BBV rain dance, running out of mana is rare. Last time you clicked on a frenzy shrine, did you kill things quicker? Or do all run past them worried a Doctor will see you killing stuff quickly and call you a newb?
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no one is bashing AS. its just not that helpful for bears/AC and in long fights youre OOM faster with it if youre using bears, while not gaining anything in terms of damage.

rain dance and globes are not enough in long high mp fights at all
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For low MP OP is correct, but once you get past where your DPS can efficiently kill then IAS doesn't help. I have a decent amount of IAS with my Skorn, but once I get to about MP6 I can OOM myself, even with GF/GI/SA (or sub VQ or BR for SA, it doesn't matter).

Each WD will have this happen at some point, and aside from a 0 dog build I don't think there is a WD yet who is geared to kill MP10 stacking IAS.
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01/07/2013 01:55 PMPosted by Frankyfailme
WDs these days spout their mouths like anyone with any attack speed on is a newb... lol. Remember in 1.02 before anyone had even heard of crit chance?


I'm confused here--why are we remembering 1.02? Why does that even matter? This patch =/= 1.02.

There is no "constant rain dance bbv." or globes that always drop in high MP level. Pretty much what grepman mentioned hits the nail on the dot. I'm not saying attack speed is totally useless, but in the high mp levels--you generally are going to find a harder time maintaining your mana @ higher attack speeds.

skywalkers guide (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7392969555) shows how to gauge the point in which attack speed breaks your build. The problem is JUST THAT. We have to trade and give up certain passives or adjust items just for a stat that is supposedly beneficial while other classes don't.

Attack speed does not synergize all that well with Witch Doctor skills like other classes unless we're spamming a VQ primary. This is why not many WDs covet the stat.

01/07/2013 01:55 PMPosted by Frankyfailme
Last time you clicked on a frenzy shrine, did you kill things quicker? Or do all run past them worried a Doctor will see you killing stuff quickly and call you a newb?


What are you..Saying? Uhhh, you seem a little disgruntled for some reason. Did someone call you out in a pub game or something?
Edited by Lmaoonadee#1981 on 1/7/2013 2:45 PM PST
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For low MP OP is correct, but once you get past where your DPS can efficiently kill then IAS doesn't help. I have a decent amount of IAS with my Skorn, but once I get to about MP6 I can OOM myself, even with GF/GI/SA (or sub VQ or BR for SA, it doesn't matter).

Each WD will have this happen at some point, and aside from a 0 dog build I don't think there is a WD yet who is geared to kill MP10 stacking IAS.


as a WD noob who is seeking advice, what do you guys think is a good number to be at for IAS? As it is now, my build can steamroll the mid MP's with no issues. I haven't tried mp8+ yet and frankly, i don't know if i have the gear to do it. I'm gonna experiment a little, but do you guys think i should swap out my IAS ring for one with 6CC on it? As far as paper dps is concerned, d3rawr tells me that swapping out 9% IAS for 6CC will net me another 2k dps

but i'm not sure of how a WD actually works yet
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For low MP OP is correct, but once you get past where your DPS can efficiently kill then IAS doesn't help. I have a decent amount of IAS with my Skorn, but once I get to about MP6 I can OOM myself, even with GF/GI/SA (or sub VQ or BR for SA, it doesn't matter).

Each WD will have this happen at some point, and aside from a 0 dog build I don't think there is a WD yet who is geared to kill MP10 stacking IAS.


very well put.

@op, people bash on as because there are so many doctors out there that bash anything but bears and flaunt their hugely inflated paper doll stats around like that is all that matters. To make matters worse, the people they are suggesting ias to are lowbies looking for gear advice. Fresh doctors need RAW damage stats like intellect, crit, crit damage, and average damage because these stats scale well with our cooldown and dot based skills kit.
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as a WD noob who is seeking advice, what do you guys think is a good number to be at for IAS? As it is now, my build can steamroll the mid MP's with no issues. I haven't tried mp8+ yet and frankly, i don't know if i have the gear to do it. I'm gonna experiment a little, but do you guys think i should swap out my IAS ring for one with 6CC on it? As far as paper dps is concerned, d3rawr tells me that swapping out 9% IAS for 6CC will net me another 2k dpsbut i'm not sure of how a WD actually works yet


I roll with a 1.40 attack speed ceremonial knife and 9% witching hour. Running standard 4 piece zuni set with 10 and 11 bonus mana regen. Even then the mana can get a little dry sometimes in MP8 even with honored guest and SA+BR passive.

I'd suggest yeah, you should swap out your IAS ring if you are venturing into MP8-9 unless you want to do a little bit of moving, incorporate widow makers into your build, or rely solely on big bad voodoo to give you an infinite amount for a while. Usually you don't get that many options when you venture into high MP levels.

For me, my ring slots are locked up with zunimassa pox and litany of undaunted.

litany of undaunted/jungle fortitude/life link dogs in order to survive reflect damage and sit in pack to bear things to death (ignore my current build so far, was helping friend level) in high mp levels.
Edited by Lmaoonadee#1981 on 1/7/2013 2:55 PM PST
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I was goofing abound with using a Azurewrath/ROT/AR with 2.4APS to see if I could freeze lock elites for group play :)
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To sum up, stack AS unless you want to play higher mps, which you shouldn't be playing anyway unless you be enjoy inefficiency.
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AS bashing? What?

IAS is the least useful dmg stat to add for WDs, so if you can get it for free (like on a witching hour or lacunis) then why not.

Get AS last, there's no reason to gear for it first unless u wonna get stuck on lower MPs...
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01/07/2013 03:03 PMPosted by Frankyfailme
To sum up, stack AS unless you want to play higher mps, which you shouldn't be playing anyway unless you be enjoy inefficiency.


False as well. Locust swarm does not need attack speed. High enough damage will demolish everything at no mp with just one spray. No need for attack speed there. Nope--none at all.
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01/07/2013 03:03 PMPosted by Frankyfailme
To sum up, stack AS unless you want to play higher mps, which you shouldn't be playing anyway unless you be enjoy inefficiency.

no, the opposite.... IAS is for higher MP's where you generally do most of your damage while standing still. But even in high mp's, it is still a bit of a niche stat for specs that can abuse it specifically e.g. infimana bear build.
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For low MP OP is correct, but once you get past where your DPS can efficiently kill then IAS doesn't help. I have a decent amount of IAS with my Skorn, but once I get to about MP6 I can OOM myself, even with GF/GI/SA (or sub VQ or BR for SA, it doesn't matter).

Each WD will have this happen at some point, and aside from a 0 dog build I don't think there is a WD yet who is geared to kill MP10 stacking IAS.


01/07/2013 03:03 PMPosted by Frankyfailme
To sum up, stack AS unless you want to play higher mps, which you shouldn't be playing anyway unless you be enjoy inefficiency.


+1
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+1


? I'm still not getting why ias for low mp, why would we want anything that doesn't make vengeful spirit stronger
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I can write a novel on why ias is bad for us, but gonna try to keep it short. First you may read my guide and discussion under it which i believe explains everything.

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6160409426?page=1

Here are the main reasons why you shouldn’t stack ias,

1- When you play on high mp (9-10) if you stop attacking you die.
2- If you want to be efficient you MUST use bears as the only offensive spell (no toads,splinters, locust etc), any other spell lowers your dps. So you will need mana and there is no way you can maintain it with high speed.
3- If you get surplus mana regen, you may start using PtV no need for ias stacking. FYI I get it when I play with a C4Doc in party who feeds me with globes.

My WD: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Hasansabbah-2914/hero/1582160
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Im running with 3.9 attack speed on my monk and its sick

For monk every time I double my attack speed I DOUBLE my edps, my resource regen, my ehp, and my life regen.

stacking one single affix gives me every thing I want with no downside.

when I double my attack speed on my witch doc unless Im zero dog build I dont get a single one of these benefits.

I have also tried playing wd at 3.6 attacks per second. I tried every single way to get him enough mana, it was not possible.

no one should be called a noob for using attack speed as a wd but bottom line there is a huge disparity in the benefits a wd gets from attack speed and every other class.

and we as witch doctors should be pissed about this because imo attack speed is the single most powerfull affix in the game... there is a reason a.s. was nerfed and crit never will be.
Edited by ChuckNorris#1885 on 1/8/2013 8:34 AM PST
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+1


? I'm still not getting why ias for low mp, why would we want anything that doesn't make vengeful spirit stronger


because it reduces cast animation. vs can at most be used for about half ur attacks. for the rest u gonno be using bears or ac in which case a.s. indirectly translates to movement speed.
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01/08/2013 07:58 AMPosted by ChuckNorris
For monk every time I double my attack speed I DOUBLE my edps, my resource regen, my ehp, and my life regen.


sweeping wind is crazy.
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01/08/2013 08:09 AMPosted by Nerzaa
For monk every time I double my attack speed I DOUBLE my edps, my resource regen, my ehp, and my life regen.


sweeping wind is crazy.


sweeping wind is a pure dmg buff. but yes it is crazy. there are monks killing mp10 elites in 3-5 seconds abusing its mechanics atm.

I suspect the mechanics that allow this are also interacting with our locust swarm skill. I will be investigating this when I got some time.
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IAS has nothing wrong per se. It all depends in what build you are using and specially which weapon you are wearing. Many of you are mixing the IAS you can stack with the attacks per second you have. Someone using a skorn and stacking in gear 40% attack speed (which is pretty high) will run out of mana exactly as fast as someone wearing a knife and 0 IAS. The attacks per second is what matters. By the way, the one with the skorn will increase his DPS pretty heavily without investing loads of gold.

If you are planning to run ZB you should be looking for a slow weapon (Skorn, mace, spear..) so you could stack some IAS without increasing too much the attacks per second. If instead you get a dagger you are always going to have mana problems.

The key is to use the appropiate weapon for each buid. I don't use bears. I farm high MPs with sacrifice so all the IAS I can stack is wellcome. I also use a echoing fury for its high attack speed.

So calling someone a newb just because of his high IAS is absurd
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