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Any tips you can give me on how to up DPS further, besides upgrading gems (will do that last as bad value for money), getting crit chance on mempo (too expensive), or getting a good calamity (also too expensive)?
Can't seem to find anything within my 40m budget range...looks like I have to hope for a lucky drop.
@Genesis: Thank you again...
The Nats question...playing with the option to get new helm+new ring for the DEX+CC boost- I think it should be maybe even cheaper, the crazy CD would get more use that way, also its cheaper to look for some EHP rolls that Id clearly need when planning to lose permagloom.
This would allow me to jump in the old Nats anytime Id prefer to and upgrade the old set when I get the shiny BIS drop I wouldnt have any use for...what do you think? oo
The helm I have I bought for the socket and PUR that was very underpriced stat by then.
Also, I didnt expect such gloves and WH to drop for me :)
The DEX and maybe +dmg which is no more underpriced stat in EU :( stand out for me too, I just postponed the thought since Im still para leveling.
I finally made it to 113286 Damage and 50000 health, but need further advice on what I could change, something does not feel right about how I play and I am not sure what I am missing. Plus I keep dying quick on monster power 4 in Inferno a lot, and it is starting to get annoying.
Any advice would be great
I posted this is the ranking section and never heard anything back, I would really appreciate your thoughts and advice on it, I do not even know if it is something you associate yourself with or not
These stats are via
I don't understand the whole calculating thing, I don't understand if a low score is good or bad, or if a high score is good or bad.
In my playing I strive to be the best I can, and keep my health high and my damage higher.
That all being said and without this possibly sounding like a job interview
here is my score
Hall Score: 7,578.75
DPS Score: 96.36
EHP Score: 50.16
Sustain Score: 1.36
Move Score: 1.12
Paragon Score: 1.00
Misc Score: 1.03
this is the latest
Though diabloprogress says my hall score is 9321
I don't know anymore
Am I doing a good job or not, I think I am but have no idea
Hi, I just recently made a Demon Hunter and reached level 60 today. I was gonna make a topic about this but saw your post and it gave me a pretty good idea of what I need to do. I'll be using the budget build, if you take a sneak peak at my profile you will see I got a lot of items to get rid off and upgrade. I just want to say thanks.
Ah ok. A DML will definitely help, but it will also be expensive to get one with good vit, dex, CC and AS, and of course a good skill bonus. I'd say it's worth doing at some point though. Glad I helped!
Thank you! As long as it's fun, you're doing it right! 45-50m exp/hour is excellent regardless, so I'm glad it works.
A direction a lot of hand crossbow users have gone is DML with calamity. You will be losing substantial CD, but it may end up increasing your DPS. It also might not help at all, but I would at least check it out. It would also give you the added bonus of boosting your vit. Another thing you could look at is getting a nats reflection with CC and average damage. The set bonus *might* boost your DPS over your rare ring (I'm assuming you're going to use the hellfire). If you replace the hellfire with a reflection, you'll definitely see a boost in DPS. I feel like you're reaching a plateau where the pieces you need to increase your DPS are outside of your 40m budget. That is definitely the case with your mainhand, since the upgrade would be a high damage calamity. I would save for that if it was me.
Upgrading your nats isn't a bad idea. It's an expensive one, but it is commonly the area that gimps most leg nats users. See what the prices are. Another upgrade to consider is your bow. I don't know about the EU servers, but on the Americas, it's often much more cost effective to get a high damage 1 soc until you start getting into top tier 2 soc mantis. Look for some in the 1250+ DPS range (maybe even 1300+, depending on your budget). You might get more bang for your buck with that, but test out both.
Diabloprogress isn't updating right now, so your gear as of 8 days ago is what I'll go off of (I think it's the same as now anyway). Your eHP is really good, so that isn't an issue. Your DPS isn't super high, but at the same time, it's probably sufficient to at least get through MP4. Your CD and CC aren't bad, so try getting a high damage 1 soc manticore with dex to boost your DPS. I suspect you'll see a big change.
Your issues with MP4 are likely due to your skill selection. You'd be better off changing out rapid fire for EA - BL, evasive fire for gloom and hot pursuit for night stalker. Night stalker and gloom will help keep you alive, and BL is just a much better AoE skill. Take a look at the skill part of my guide for a more detailed explanation.
As for the rankings, don't get caught up on that. As nice of an idea as the "Hall of Godly DH" is, I don't feel the formula accurately reflects the effectiveness of different builds. It is highly biased in favour of legacy nats, for example. I would disregard that measure entirely. Diabloprogress just summarizes some key stats and ranks you among other DHs. Again, don't get caught up on that, but it does help show how you are doing relative to others.
I'm glad it helped! Let me know if you have any questions.
My rare ring has a very high 65 avg dmg (item display is bugged) so a 40 avg dmg, 3 CC Nat's reflection would only add 1k dps for over 200m gold.
Think I'll have to save for the high-end calamity as you suggest; was hoping you could spot some other cheaper worthwhile upgrade that I missed.
Thanks for your help!
Yeah figures. Once you get a calamity, you might consider looking into DML builds. I've seen some high end builds that use zuni boots instead of nats. A DML will help boost your vit potentially allowing you to get more offensive stats on your gear. Again, that's speculation. I am not as familiar with hand crossbow builds, so I would have to simulate it to know for sure.
Was able to get a DML with near 200dex/vit, 15%iAS, 10%CC, +10% Bola Dmg for about 1m. I know that you can get much better, but I think the DML I have is decent and extremely cheap. I saw others with the same stats for the same price (different roles on bonus skill damage). Just putting that out there for your good build, you can get what I said above on a DML for 1m or less. I realise that DML's can be much better but for a bugdet those stats are rock solid.
Another cheap weapon set for under or around 1m is Danetta's. I was able to get both with perfect roles but fairly low dps (one 920 the other 840 or so) but since they are near perfect roles I get insane stats from them. Each of the Danetta's gives me about 190 dex + the 130 dex bonus from the set, so from main + offhand I get 420 dex which for under 1m is very good (I think I paid 900k for the both which for an under 1m budget is quite expensive). They also gave me about 72k dps (when I first bought them) but as you may notice some of my gear is not a budget item and gives me a lot of DPS.
I think its important to shop for CC or CD based on your weapon and attack speed. If you are using a Manticore obviously you will want to get over 50% CC because of the CD the Manticore already gives + the crossbow bonus of +50% CD. If using Danetta's as I said before you can get one of them with 90+% CD (no socket) for cheap while still getting other good stats but lower damage than most would prefer. Then you get the +10% CC and fast attack speed so you would want to try to focus more on CD than CC. If you have 1.0 AS with 50% CC vs 2.0 AS with 25% CC you will end up critting at the same rate. Although that is basic math, I myself overlooked that when I was intially shopping and ended up overpaying for items I did not really need and didn't effect my DPS as much as a cheaper item could of.
As far as low budget goes, if you have a level 60 already and want to make a new character just go back and farm act 3 on different difficulties (valor stacks apply to all difficulties when you are level 60) and just farm for rares that would be decent for the class you want to make. That is what I did when I made my Barb and I was able to level him to 60 extremely fast solo without issues until I was doing nightmare MP10 (that is when I bought higher dps weapons for him so he killed faster, they were about 200k each with decent stats for lvl 45+)
A tip I use for AH shopping with a budget, I put in minimum values of what you want on an item then search either by time remaining on bid or the lowest buyout. I may not be very good at D3 yet or know much about it, but I have found some cheap gear by shopping like that. Otherwise I just put the values in and the maximum I am willing to pay then go off that.
A side note on your skill build, I prefer Bola Shot because my DML gives me the damage bonus, but I think that it is still good for farming even if using the Arcane Damage rune with the 2 second delay. I normally just run through mobs then double tap a few mobs of a group then move on while the 2 second delay runs out and kills them (fast units are annoying because they will get ahead of the group and maybe take my Bola Shot instead of the group of mobs, that is when I use multishot or something just to kill everything and move on). I think I still get the exp from the kills if I Bola's and run although I am not sure, I may be completely wrong with all this aswell but it is just what I think.
I just wanted to give my say in your guide so maybe you could add some things and or flame me. I did not mean to correct you or to be rude in any way, you guide is extremely well thought out and seems to be rock solid!
Edited by InsainDawg#1137 on 1/11/2013 9:05 AM PST
Hey, I was hoping you could give me some advice as to which piece I should upgrade next, and if I should focus more on dps or survivability. Right now I have around 20m gold, is it worth it to spend that on something or should I keep saving until I can afford a better piece?
In case my profile doesn't show it, which it might not, I have to 100% cc gems for my manti and my second ring is a hellfire, was using it on my wizard for leveling. I'm at around 188k or so dps with archery and steady aim, and around 250k ehp without dodge.
There's a link to my d3up profile if it is easier for you to use than armory. Thanks in advance!
Welcome back :) As promised I got the best possible pants I can get w/o it going over priced. Now I want to be 100% sure that I got the belt right.
uhm I am currently at 177 DPS w/ my real Ring (You should remember it some what.) My goal is still 200k unbuffed, as I have said previously, most DWing DH I see, damage wise is 200k unbuffed (near max) that is my ultimate goal.
I'm still very hesitant about the loss of AR, as I cannot find a way to get it back with how I have done it so far (unless you are able to give me suggestions.) I also did forget to mention, my total Life is actually at 71k. (I keep forgetting to say about my Radiant Star Amethyst). Again because I'm leveling, I took it off for the Radiant Star Ruby.
So, uh once I settle with exactly how I want it to go down, I'll thank you in anyway I can think of. :) I want to keep my total Vitality at least above 70k w/ Radiant Star Amethyst. 200k unbuffed (w/ Archery is necessary no biggie, I won't be taking that off.) Hopefully above 400 AR (But that I am not sure if it will be possible.)
Hi, I posted for advice some months ago on your other board. I really appreciate that you do this!
I got the new nats set, but I didn't like how it made my demon hunter look, so I've been piecing together different rare items now since you can't make legendaries vanish or change the color. I wanted to make my demon hunter look nice (haha I'm a girl, leave me alone XP), and I actually do way more damage with the pieces I have now than I ever did with nats. I don't mind legendary bracers, shoulders, ammys, belts or rings. I also really value my increased movement speed. I was wondering if you had any suggestions/knew of any items that would help me do more damage (and possibly have more life) without compromising the movement speed. I do not want to use inna's and andy's because I don't like how they make my guy look. I kind of want to substitute lacuni bracers for the strongarms, and have the flavor of time amulet, but they make my dps go down. I wish I didn't care about how my guy looks or movement speed, but I do ;-;
WOW. That's a lot of writing. Thanks for your input.
The general premise of my guides were to show ways to maximize your DPS and survivability while minimizing the cost. Once you start getting into hand crossbow builds, the cost generally goes way up and results way down. You may prefer the playstyle of hand crossbows and would choose to use them for that reason, which is perfectly fine. In general though, I'm going to stick with manticore builds. Other builds are certainly valid and may be preferred by some people, but for reasons as simple as my personal preference, I won't be advising it to the general public in a guide. I find it hard to sit here and suggest people go spend double for a bow that will give less DPS, especially when I don't use one myself! There are arguments that the resource regen are worth the DPS loss, and that the high attack speed gameplay is more fun. I've tested out a fairly high end calamity and found that not only did it take longer to kill things, I also found that it was harder to survive. That has created a bias for me that is hard to overcome, so some people may just want to disregard it altogether.
Something to keep in mind for your AH tips that you may want to know is that you should be careful when you put in values. Maybe it's just me, but my normal tendency is to look for nice looking numbers, like 100. If you search for something at 100, that will often be either a single perfect roll or a low end double roll that will show up. I once made the mistake of jumping on an item that I thought was priced well, when in reality had I just dropped my 100 down to say 90, I would have seen a whole new realm of items that were arguably better (higher different rolls) for MUCH less. For that reason, I often put in about 75% of my desired stat to avoid such misdirection.
For low MP, bola is viable but SoT is generally accepted as most efficient. I went through a phase with my bola DML in low MP and enjoyed it, so it's not like you're totally gimping yourself if you do that. I would say that you should use volatile explosives and not imminent doom though. The one second delay is bad enough to begin with, so two seconds is just taking too long. As I said before, it's all about having fun and doing what you think is best. The difference between bola and SoT for low MP isn't drastic, so whichever you prefer is what you should use, or just switch it up when you get bored.
Thanks for the comments. None of this was to flame you, just to discuss it further and explain my thoughts on your thoughts!
Your gear is looking pretty good! If you really wanted to improve, I would suggest getting some vit on your mempo, AR and higher CC on your bracers, vit on your ammy, and a higher damage bow (all in due time). While your bow has high base damage, it doesn't have any dex which is probably hurting your DPS more than anything. If it were me, I would probably look for a high damage 1 soc manticore with dex and see how much of a gain that would give. Your eHP is pretty decent as of now, so those other changes might be less of a priority. Simulate it and see what you see!
Thanks! If you're looking for eHP, you're on the right track. Many of your pieces have some vit on there, and your resists aren't looking too bad either. I would suggest you get a new chest that has vit instead of life regen, and new bracers (I would get a rare one that has AR, vit, CC and dex, but vit strongarms would also work). I'm undecided about your gloves and whether or not they are worth changing with your budget. If you stick a vit gem in there, you'll have decent vit, acceptable AR, some DPS, good armour and pickup radius (which is a nice little bonus). While higher stats all across the board would be ideal, I just don't know if it's worth it for your right now. Upgrading your bow will probably be your biggest focus honestly, but for eHP just work on vit and AR in the places I mentioned.
Thanks! I'm glad you came back; I was curious to see what you ended up doing after all our previous discussion. Those pants are looking excellent! I have yet to see any way other than choosing between inna's and WH to boost your DPS sadly. As you can see with my new build (gear is probably on my monk right now, but it's my DH gear), I've gone with a WH. It gives me nearly the same DPS as my old nats chest with inna's belt would (set bonus difference with new build), but costs me 33.5k eHP unbuffed, 40k with dodge. That attack speed is pretty important for a build like mine, and the CD never hurt. For you, attack speed is probably less of a priority since you're already shooting extremely fast. It's also worth noting that I spent TONS on it, and the results on paper aren't earth shattering. It's better, but at what point does budget begin to limit you? It's also worth noting that for you, inna's will be even more effective (pure black damage), so a DPS equivalent WH will be even more than mine!
No matter how I look at it, the cheapest upgrade for you is inna's belt. The only other DPS boost I can think of is by getting a better calamity (not that yours is even close to bad….), but that is probably out of the question. If funds are limited and you want to upgrade more, consider selling off your 58 dex gems (not the weapon ones) and go for 54 dex. At the cost of 20 dex, you would walk away with like 90m more to spend on upgrades. That's what I did when I regeared and I don't regret it! I can promise you'll get more than 20 dex worth of DPS out of 90m, so it's seriously worth considering. Whether you put that towards a new bow, a CC mempo, or a new belt, all of these upgrades will boost you substantially more.
I definitely know what you mean about appearances! When I made my first char (barb), I actually bought inferior items in order to keep a consistent set that I thought looked awesome haha. I learned to accept my DH with all it's gear, but I really noticed how ugly it is on my monk (uses the same gear). It actually drives me crazy!
As it currently stands, you have four movement speed items, totalling you at 48%. I'm not sure if you knew this, but the cap is at 25% (or did they change it to 24%?). One of the two. Point being, you really only want two pieces that have movement speed. I really feel that inna's pants is one of those items you just need to have if you can afford it. The DPS and movement speed from it is really awesome. Another way to conceal (visually) your movement speed cap is with boots, as you've already done. I would suggest nats boots at some point in time, but yours are actually pretty good for rares. In fact, don't change them unless you get another nats piece. That means you can drop the lacunis and drop the ammy (yay). I know I suggested strongarms, but in reality, rare bracers with dex, vit, AR and CC is what you really want. Strongarms are definitely viable (and may offer you more DPS if you get very high dex on it), but rare ones will probably be cheaper and give you better eHP. Definitely ditch that andy's helm though. It is both hideous, and statwise, REALLY bad. That 24% extra fire damage is not what you want at all. If you're going with an andy's, either get a socket for a vit gem, or go for high dex with vit/AR and LOW fire damage (5-10%). A mempo would be even better, but they are hideous too. Maybe even check out some rares. Know that you won't ever get DPS like andy's without going to a CC mempo though.
As far as the rest of your gear goes, see what you can do to boost your CC a bit. Aim for around 40%. Your resists are also very low, so try to boost that. Your vit could also use some work.
Haha thanks! I'd be down for ubers any time honestly - send me an invite! I basically never have keys though haha.
Edited by Genesis#1518 on 1/13/2013 12:23 PM PST
lol those gloves are just for running with friends my normal ones have crit chance, crit damage, 62 ra, and little bit of vit and dex. i also have some bracers with all those. it comes down to 2k dps drop to them and gain 3k life. i was just seeing which would work better. but i will look into a new chest.
Edited by bda145#1879 on 1/11/2013 7:08 PM PST
I am now sitting at 178k dps unbuffed and 60k life with the life gem in my helm. I have around 70 mil to spend. Where do you think I can start upgrading? Here are the details.
DPS Score: 178.29
EHP Score: 60.91
Sustain Score: 1.11
Move Score: 1.24
Paragon Score: 1.13
Misc Score: 1.03
Hi all, what are your suggestions for my next upgrade? Like everyone else, I'd like to increase dps while not losing out on ehp :P I've only got 20 mil to spend - should I save up a little more and blow it on a nat's ring with CD? I want a higher dex DML but to stay in my budget I'd have to sacrifice some of the IAS and it becomes only a minor upgrade if I do that. I'd also like to stick to the bow and not go the manticore route, although doing so would surely boost my dps. Thoughts?
Your eHP is awesome, so your primary focus will be with DPS (in my opinion). DPS-wise, your bow is your weakest link. As appealing as two socket bows may seem, you'll often be able to get much higher DPS with a high damage 1 soc. I would look into very high damage ones, as I feel that is the step between where you are now and getting a 1200+ DPS 2 socket. I used a 1370 DPS 1 socket instead of a 1076 DPS 2 socket (slightly less DPS than yours) and ended up gaining over 20k DPS. You will lose CD, but your overall DPS will go up. Failing that, I don't see any major DPS upgrades you can make.
I wish I could load your diabloprogress stats (it's not updating anymore -.-), but from what I can see, I think your next move should be to get 2 piece nats. Your CC could use some work, and one of the easiest ways to fix that is with the 2 piece set bonus. You'll lose some vit on the boots (unless you get good ones with vit).
I've got a couple comments about the direction your build has gone. I see that you've gone with innas chest and WH, but I don't think that's the right direction for you. Even though I've done that myself, I did that with the point of maximizing the stats that I could get on those items. By that I mean that by choosing WH over inna's belt, I was aiming for eHP AND DPS, rather than just DPS. The DPS you would see with a decent inna's belt would be higher at a much lower cost. By doing that, you'll want to get nats chest for the set bonus.
Other than that, you may want to try getting a better bow and possibly a mempo (depending on your eHP, which I can't see right now). Clearly that won't boost your DPS directly, but it might help take the pressure off of some of your other items to give you more flexibility for DPS, or just give you a general eHP boost. As you must know, an alive DH deals way more DPS than a dead one!
First off, thanks for all the valuable information and the time you spent putting it all together. I went off your first guide and revamped my character with amazing results. After the second set of guides, I have hit a wall of decision.
What should I do about this Manticore with no Dex but high DPS?
My jewelry is is not spectacular but serviceable. Is it worth adjusting?
Any overall tips are greatly appreciated. Thanks again.
Thanks for your advice, Genesis. I will look into switching around my inna's to incorporate 2pc nat's. Either way I've gotta get a nat's ring it looks like - that would be the most expensive upgrade from your suggestions so I think I'll look into that first. BTW my EHP (according to diabloprogress) is 254k. I could also switch to a manticore I suppose...that would definitely be a DPS boost but I might get annoyed with the loss of AS :P
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