Diablo® III

Is Meteor bad or am I doing it wrong?

Hey folks..
I was doing some Meteor testing with the following builds: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#VPXYhT!Wge!Yaaccc
vs.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#VQXYhT!Wgb!YZaccc

First I did a test on Ghom MP10. Meteor was less DPS, which didn't surprise me, because you need a lot of AP and that's easier to get on several targets.

Second tests were Ubers Ghom/Raka and Siege/Kulle. Both times, Meteor was still less DPS.
This was kind of surprising to me, because when farming, Meteor definitely felt a lot stronger.
I'm pretty sure I play it right, I get my lock started and once I've dropped about 5-6+ tornadoes, then I drop 2-4 meteors, then back to tornadoes and drop 3-4 of those. Rinse and repeat.

I think it's because for farming, Meteor is a big DPS burst right away, instead of slowly getting started. But in longterm fights like Ubers, it's better to have Evo and just keep freezing.
After all, regular tornadoes proc Shocking Aspects better, and also better freezing (Bone Chill's effect enhanced)

I think to make it effective I'd need about ~50%+ crit damage for the huge Meteor crits to really kick in, but I'm not sure. Have anyone else done some testing on this?
My profile is EU, if it's my gear that's holding me back (low CC?) http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Niko-2983/
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If your goal is to get meteor to the point where it can replace and surpass twisters.....it's not possible.

It costs too much and procs too little.

Also, as far as it feeling faster when farming mobs I would guess that this is simply a perception rather than fact simply because you need more time to wind up to a full twister spam rotation than you do to drop a few meteors.

So yes, there's nothing wrong with you....regular SNS has higher sustained damage than any meteor variant out there.

Meteor looks cool, but it's bad (too expensive by far)
Edited by BDF#1838 on 1/8/2013 9:54 AM PST
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Yeah all kind of meteors are weaker than the standard SNS, and you can even get magic weapon, teleport or slow time along with standard SNS.

But.... meteor is extremely fun!!! I run it a lot in uber with other CM wiz or while farming. It is less effective but it is a lot of fun, a nice trade off!
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It's because WW procs SA lots more than meteor, which more than makes up for the difference in base damage that each spell does. My estimations are about 5-8 SA procs per WW at 2.73 APS and 50% CC compared to 0.2 procs from meteor. It gets a little more complicated because of conflag passive but the SA procs do 35% of weapon damage so that's almost like getting 2 WW per cast, so unless meteor does about 2x the damage as a WW cast, WW > meteor in long fights.

Like you said, Meteor is probably a bit better as burst dps against trash mobs that die fairly quickly, but otherwise WW is king.
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This is actually not a surprise to me at all. As someone that does a lot of Meteor being subbed into SNS, one of the biggest requirements is effective AP generation and being able to spam Meteor infinitely. You're constantly winding up either your Twisters or Meteors, and not typically reaching a steady-state where you're able to proc a lot with either. Since you're working with less procs with Meteor overall, you might need to make up for that with APoC and Meteor Reduction equipment, so you can continue non-stop spamming on anything that isn't a single target. I prefer using 25+APoC + Diamond Skin (Prism) over Shards, as well as Liquefy.

There's also a big push to use LL+Prodigy instead of WW for SNS style builds, simply because Energy Twister takes awhile to wind up. And while I don't think most Meteor builds are as effective as classic SNS at high MP levels. But I think a strong case could be made that they are much more effective at farming the lower MP levels than SNS since you don't need to wind up to regenerate your AP.
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@Loroese: Though that's where Liquefy becomes a bit more sustainable, albeit not a huge improvement (on average 0.3445 procs). And not to be nitpicky, but isn't Molten Impact procing about 0.25, instead of 0.2, since the proc coefficient is 0.125 and you get 4 procs (1 for impact and 3 for the aftershock)? Or am I missing something about how to calculate the expected procs for Meteor?
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01/08/2013 10:47 AMPosted by TekkZero
@Loroese: Though that's where Liquefy becomes a bit more sustainable, albeit not a huge improvement (on average 0.3445 procs). And not to be nitpicky, but isn't Molten Impact procing about 0.25, instead of 0.2, since the proc coefficient is 0.125 and you get 4 procs (1 for impact and 3 for the aftershock)? Or am I missing something about how to calculate the expected procs for Meteor?


I don't remember the exact coefficients, so I probably got liquify mixed up with molten and just assumed about 0.1. Even with liquify and about 0.4 procs, you get 10-20 times the SA procs from WW, which is the main point I was trying to make.
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Solo against 2 target standard sns will outperform. You need deep freeze buff to make it work which required 5 target to refresh.

molten impact is only way to farm mp9-10 solo efficiently with a realistic budget:
http://www.twitch.tv/avoidlol

On mp8 i get a 22min runtime with meteor while electrify is a 26min runtime. I can run mp9 in 28mins as a comparison. Meteor can be cast over and over as long as mobs are alive. Meteor outperforms in high mob count zones.
Edited by RulerEric#1854 on 1/8/2013 11:12 AM PST
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http://www.twitch.tv/avoidlol

On mp8 i get a 22min runtime with meteor while electrify is a 26min runtime. I can run mp9 in 28mins as a comparison. Meteor can be cast over and over as long as mobs are alive. Meteor outperforms in high mob count zones.

This is pretty much what I figured aswell. Meteor will outperform for farming, because the DPS is an instant burst, and it's greater AoE.
I did get the inspiration to test from Avoid, and I even asked him about whether or not he'd done some testing, and he just arrogantly answered "Ofc. it's more DPS, see how fast the mobs lose hp!" .. I never liked that guy, lol.
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@Loroese: I 100% agree with you about the proc coefficients for meteor being ultimately pretty bad (at any attack speed - ie > 0.65aps) and wasn't trying to be nitpicky. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't making an error somewhere. I was thinking the math is:
Procs for Molten Impact = Meteor Proc Coefficient*CC*4 = 0.25 (for 50%cc)
Procs for Liquefy = Meteor Proc Coefficient*CC*[9*CC + 4*(1-CC)] = 0.3445 (for 50% cc)

And from trying out SNS builds with Meteor subbed in for WW, it's clear the difference in procs. Though the thing that is most surprising to me is despite the REALLY bad proc coefficients, Meteor can be pretty self-sustainable with as low as two-targets . That's still pretty impressive and just goes to show how spoiled we are right now with WW.
Edited by TekkZero#1963 on 1/8/2013 11:30 AM PST
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regular SNS has higher sustained damage than any meteor variant out there.


no just no. ask phal how slow farming mp10 was till I switched to Shaggalicious midway and everything melted

single target like ghom it's true but as LL hits multiples and AP is no problem and you're spamming arcane dynamo boosted molten meteors SNS cant compare. I hate to be that guy but i know a little about SNS adding shards to epicols SN and publicizing it and naming it so i'm dissing my own variant when I say it can't compare.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 1/8/2013 12:12 PM PST
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One is dependent on attack speed, one isn't.
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Piggy back the thread on question about meteor...
how about replacing chain reaction with meteor shower?
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#VQOXPY!gWb!YaccbZ

I am thinking to get a meteor soj + 2 pieces tal rasha for fire skill dmg bonus + 3 apoc. pieces with a meteor reduction offhand.

Is this a wrong route?
Has anyone tried this?
Edited by Luffy#1946 on 1/8/2013 12:34 PM PST
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@Aimless: I think BDF is presuming that you're using Frost Nova. Meteor-spamming without Frost Nova is simply a chain-saw massacre and is probably the only kind of Meteor build that can give the SNS-variants a run for their money at high-MP levels. :)

@DoctorDoom: That's not entirely true I think and it's worth quibbling over, as even Aimless's build is not completely independent of attack speed. You still get a lot more procs over-time with a Meteor build favoring some attack speed, than a build favoring only crit damage. So long as you're stable on AP, if you have the choice, I think more attack speed is a bit better. You're after all casting faster and getting out more Meteors+LL to proc CM to reduce the CDs for Explosive Blast and Shards. So the slower you are, the slower you're procing. And this become much more noticeable as you have less targets for Meteor+LL, such as singles.
Edited by TekkZero#1963 on 1/8/2013 12:42 PM PST
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@Luffy: The beauty of Explosive Blast is that it doesn't take up an action. So even if you replace Explosive Blast, you'll always be having Frost Nova/Wicked Wind/Meteor competing for the same casting actions. And so if you're ever adding Meteor to a SNS build, that correspondingly means less procs from WW and less damage from things like Storm Armor. The beauty of something like the "Shaggalicious" meteor build is that it's not nearly as reliant on procs, and rather is just taking advantage of spamming Meteor's high-splash damage with a LL+Prodigy+Arcane Dynamo combo.
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swap in living lightning for twisters and spam meteor.

my source doesnt have any apoc and its rarely an issue. multiple targets or just a single uber.
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More Atk speed always helps in any build involving CM procs but at least
with Shaggalicious you are not required to hit the 2.73 APS breakpoint.
Edited by DoctorDoom#1357 on 1/8/2013 2:25 PM PST
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Meteor is just really gear intensive to get it to even come close to standard SNS builds.

Your going to need insane CC%, very high attack speeds so you can spam as many meteors as your AP regen will allow, WHILE throwing in the occasional nova/EB/DS spam as well.

Not to mention the cost of the meteor itself, redux or 3 sources of APOC are recoomended.

Its super fun, and more viable in groups when another wiz is around, but for solo anything, not as quick and deadly as standard SNS.
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