Diablo® III

Random Exploding Palm facts

I did some quick tests last night at the request of someone on my friend list, and I'm pleased to share the following observations about Impending Doom:
  • Weapon damage, DEX, CHC, CHD, and buffs matter; IAS and attack speed do not.
  • When you activate the skill, the target will begin taking DOT, and you'll get a tick every 0.5 seconds.
  • Although the tooltip claims the mob will take damage for 15 seconds, I saw only 28 or 29 ticks. However, the damage per tick is calculated as if you're dividing the total expected damage by 30.
  • Like Submission (I think), the skill occasionally ticks for an extra 20% damage.
  • If you crit when you apply the skill, the bonus for the entire sequence will use your CHD boost.

To test this, I grabbed my trusty two-handed axe and a pair of rings with +25 Min. Damage and +20 Min. Damage on them. This gave me a steady damage range of 54–54. I had 1367 DEX, 16% CHC, and +50% CHD. Impending Doom claims to deliver 745% weapon damage over 15 seconds, so this is what I expected to see:

54 (AWD)
x 14.67 (DEX)
x 7.45 (Impending Doom)
= 5,901.741
÷ 30 (15 seconds @ 2 ticks per second)
196.7247 damage per tick

But I saw two sets of numbers:

1. 197 per tick with occasional ticks of 236
2. 295 per tick with occasional ticks of 354

The "occasional ticks" are an extra 20% damage, which is how Submission works (for reasons no one can explain). The first set of numbers matches what I'd expect, based on the rounding D3 does, but the second was a mystery. My theory was that the extra 50% boost reflected my CHD, so I grabbed a few items designed to boost my CHD.

For my next test, I grabbed an amulet with an extra 44% CHD on it. My DEX was now 1470, but nothing else had changed. My expected damage for a standard tick was now this:

54 (AWD)
x 15.70 (DEX)
x 7.45 (Impending Doom)
= 6,316.11
÷ 30 (15 seconds @ 2 ticks per second)
210.537 damage per tick

Again, I saw two sets of numbers:

1. 211 per tick with occasional ticks of 253
2. 408 per tick with occasional ticks of 490

The "occasional ticks" are still +20% figures. The 211 is expected; the 408 is easily explained by my new +94% CHD:

210.537 damage per tick
x 1.94 (CHD)
= 408.44178

Over time, the average will come very close to (1 + CHC x CHD), but high CHC and CHD numbers mean frequent large spikes in your EP damage.

Other notes:
  • IAS is not a factor. I removed my +8% IAS helm, and my damage didn't change on the next EP attack.
  • The skill accounts for Blazing Wrath and Faith in the Light, but these buffs need to be active before you activate Exploding Palm.
  • Although Faith in the Light is known to produce a damage boost of 25% to 35%, Exploding Palm treats it as a straight 30% damage buff, modified by attack speed. When I attacked with a 1.20 APS, I got a straight 36% damage buff, every time (0.3 x 1.2 = 0.36).
  • Mantra of Conviction needs to be up and running before you activate Exploding Palm; if it isn't, you won't get any bonus despite the usual "debuff" behavior that is active for Cyclone tornadoes and vortex damage.
  • The same applies for Overawe: if you activate Exploding Palm within the three-second spam window, you'll get the 48% bonus; if Overawe is up but not in spam mode, you're stuck with the 24% bonus.

There's nothing earth-shattering here, but this information might help some of you maximize this skill during combat. Focus on high AWD, CHC, and CHD, and get all your boosts lined up before you strike.
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Another random fact which has been said time and time again, but still feels worth mentioning since I experienced it for the first time yesterday...

If you're using it on high mps, please god don't use it on RD that are about to die...
XDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXD
Edited by gotaplanstan#1369 on 1/9/2013 11:04 AM PST
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I'm going to change the tile of my Guide/Info list to Vrkhyz list.

You're just happy the snow is melting today! :D
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The melting snow almost makes up for my ravaged throat, which caused me to take the day off. That, and the fact that I walked my AK into a set of eights on an A-K-8 board last night. The odds of which are about 960-to-1, BTW. Let's just say I catch him overplaying A8s and AQ far, far more often. Given that my stack was only 3.5 times the size of the pot, my half-pot lead triggered the raise I wanted, so I shipped it. Coward nearly folded, too. Given that he's only 50/50 against my presumed range of (KK+, AK) and just over 53% against an expanded range of (KK+, AK, A8s), he was right to hesitate.

*cough*

So! Anyway. Tangents. Great things, aren't they? :)
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If I palm the same target 5 times, will I get 5 times the described damage? Bleed stack?

Looking for ways to dump spirit other than overawe and wave of light.
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Have you compared damage from BoH-BW vs EP-FIW?

Seems like a 15 percent dps overall dps buff would outshine the 8 percent+bleed dmg.

The explosion on the other hand is definitely OP for farming high mps.
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Another random fact which has been said time and time again, but still feels worth mentioning since I experienced it for the first time yesterday...

If you're using it on high mps, please god don't use it on RD that are about to die...
XDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXD

Hilarious though.
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More random facts:
  • Palming an already-palmed target does not stack the damage; it simply resets the timer.
  • The first activation of The Flesh Is Weak does not benefit from the 12% extra damage buff; however, if you palm the same target again, it resets the timer and applies a 12% damage buff to this new DOT application.
  • TFIW's damage buff is another additive bonus. In other words, if you palm a target and then activate Blazing Wrath, your damage is buffed by 27% (12% from TFIW and 15% from BW).

As for TFIW vs. BW, I don't know what to think. TFIW would certainly work out better for me in a single-target fight. With BW, my real single-target DPS is a shade over 163K. If I had a 12% buff, even if it didn't apply to Cyclone,* I'd have nearly 154K real DPS, and that wouldn't include the 14K I get from TFIW itself. In a group, I think you'd get more benefit out of BW and Guiding Light in combination. Also, it's a 12% buff to one target, but BW helps you against all targets, which is a big benefit for Thunderclap's AOE damage.

I think BW will come ahead in most scenarios. TFIW is limited by the lack of an APS/IAS buff. Essentially, it's raw damage—no haste modifier, no APS, and therefore no real scaling outside of DEX, CHC, and CHD.

* Of course, I can tell you that it does apply to Cyclone, even if you have your Cyclone stack already maximized before you apply Exploding Palm. Also, it's additive, so a 12% TFIW buff and an 18% Foresight buff produce a +30% tornado.
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Another random fact which has been said time and time again, but still feels worth mentioning since I experienced it for the first time yesterday...

If you're using it on high mps, please god don't use it on RD that are about to die...
XDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXD


No. Please do. At least once.

It's worth the lulz..

The whole screen goes pop. dead.
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Was the old glitch of palming a pack of blues all near 5% health and killing them all at same time for triple drops ever fixed?
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I'm kinda glad that IAS isn't factored in. It's nice to see some abilities actually do use weapon damage and favor large slow weapons. I assume attack speed is factored into the animation time of the strike, not that that matter as much for spirit consuming abilities. Thanks for the heads up.

The melting snow almost makes up for my ravaged throat, which caused me to take the day off. That, and the fact that I walked my AK into a set of eights on an A-K-8 board last night. The odds of which are about 960-to-1, BTW. Let's just say I catch him overplaying A8s and AQ far, far more often. Given that my stack was only 3.5 times the size of the pot, my half-pot lead triggered the raise I wanted, so I shipped it. Coward nearly folded, too. Given that he's only 50/50 against my presumed range of (KK+, AK) and just over 53% against an expanded range of (KK+, AK, A8s), he was right to hesitate.

*cough*

So! Anyway. Tangents. Great things, aren't they? :)


I wouldn't think a whole lot of hands you beat are calling a bet 3.5 times the pot here. Seems like your making a bet that will get beat if called and will make weaker hands fold. Not ideal. On the other hand, you can console yourself that you were probably losing your stack in this particular situation no matter how the two of you played this out. Anyway, your stack was 3.5x the pot? I'm guessing this was a tournament?

FWIW, I love tangents :)
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01/09/2013 02:37 PMPosted by Starwulf
Was the old glitch of palming a pack of blues all near 5% health and killing them all at same time for triple drops ever fixed?


Yes.
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The bugs with reflect damage and minions / health link mean basically no amount of life steal can keep you alive.

Assuming they fix it, what amount of damage reduction would be needed to break even and survive? (say at 3, 4, 5 and 6%)

This requires knowing the original reflected damage percent, which people have been having a hard time finding.
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On the other hand, you can console yourself that you were probably losing your stack in this particular situation no matter how the two of you played this out. Anyway, your stack was 3.5x the pot? I'm guessing this was a tournament?


Coolers are the "disconnects while playing Hardcore" of the poker world. I had the same thoughts about shoving, but came to the same conclusion that Vrk is probably going broke no matter what.

As for exploding palm, a question and a statement . . .

1. I believe I've read that the explosion does not crit. Can anyone confirm?

2. For those who missed it, I made my first serious attempt to beat Siegebreaker/Kulle on MP3 this past weekend. First attempt was going great, I was sticking to Kulle and avoiding his bubbles, when I got him down to a sliver of health, killed him, and watched Siegebreaker's reflect damage explode me into oblivion when it reflected my exploding palm. I learned my lesson about saving serenity or SSS for these occasions against Elites long ago, but for some damned reason my brain decided not to apply that knowledge to the Ubers. Oops. (epilog: I took them both down 3 or 4 attempts later).
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@Demi: I wasn't very clear because I didn't expect a response. The sequence went like this:

1. I open UTG six-handed for 2,100 at 400-800-100. I have 22,700 behind.
2. Bad player behind me calls, and everyone else folds. Pot is now 6,000.
3. Flop is Ah-Kc-8h. I have Ac-Kh and lead for 3,500, hoping I get read for a QQ-99 c-bet.
4. Villain raises to 10,000. I expect him to make this raise with AK, A8s, 88, AQ, and ATs+.
5. I raise all-in, which I will do in this spot with AA, KK, 88, and AK.

So I didn't lead for 3.5x, if that's what it sounded like. Villain will certainly call me preflop with 88 but is incapable of cold-calling KK and AA. I also expect him to call with hands like A8s+.

Against a presumed range of AK, 88, and A8s, I'm a little better than 50%, so 4-betting all-in is automatic. Because this player is bad, I expect him to call and hope with AQs and AQo some of the time. He's also capable of forcing a weaker combo draw like Qh-Jh and Jh-Th, which pushes me closer to 53%. Basically, with only 31 BBs to start the hand and 24 BBs after my initial flop bet, I am never folding on this board, and if he hits one of his miracle flops that contain an 8, well, it sucks to be me. If he starts getting caught with hands like AQ, my odds go up substantially (to better than 70%); by contrast, he's flipping with my range because I can drop AQ here against his range on this board.

Yes, tangents are great :)

Edit: I also expect Villain to raise to 10,000 with A8s on this board. Forgot to put that hand there the first time.
Edited by Vrkhyz#1472 on 1/9/2013 3:51 PM PST
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Have you compared damage from BoH-BW vs EP-FIW?

Seems like a 15 percent dps overall dps buff would outshine the 8 percent+bleed dmg.

The explosion on the other hand is definitely OP for farming high mps.

Well if you're by yourself I doubt FIW compares, but in a group setting from how I interpret the wording on the skill, it functions like Guiding Light and Overawe (in that it benefits everyone in the group). I think its 12% additional damage too, not 8.
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Turns out the reason exploding palm kills vs RD so much is the reflect damage applies (and can kill you) before life steal kicks in.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/16c7me/everything_you_need_to_know_about_reflect_damage/
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@ Vrkhyz,

If you're interested, can you figure out the mechanics for all of the monk's popular damage buffs? eg. foresight, blazing wrath, combination strike, guiding light etc.
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@ Vrkhyz,

If you're interested, can you figure out the mechanics for all of the monk's popular damage buffs? eg. foresight, blazing wrath, combination strike, guiding light etc.

I kind of did this already. They're all additive buffs. So is Overawe. I don't know whether Guiding Light is additive, but I ought to, as KamelJabber and I were using it two or three nights ago. It's almost certainly additive, though.
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Great post on EP. I'm actually quite a fan of this skill, and would use it on higher MPs. Thanks once again for your adept analysis of this skill.
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