Diablo® III

Skills that lie to you.

Blizzard Employee
Posts: 2,279
Thanks for taking the time to write this up. We agree that there’s not a lot of visibility in the game into how proc coefficients work and integrate with item affixes, and we’ve discussed possible ways to improve that. However, I wouldn’t say that they should simply be removed from the game. Proc builds with proper gear can be pretty awesome, but (as the OP noted) for balancing reasons it’s very important to have a scaling proc coefficient.
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why is it important to balance the game? it's a pve game. nerf skills for a pvp environment or something if you're so worried about it.

if you let proc coefficients be OP then it suddenly opens up itemization to more stats than just cc/cd/as/mainstat/vit/armor/allres. this would open new doors for bis items and allow for more build diversity, although everybody will still probably go max dps so they can speedrun to get items.
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Grimiku, here is a little bit of feedback you can take back to the developers:

This whole theme of "less is more" didn't work very well when it came to withholding information from its players. I think the huge demand to showcase Elective Mode when the game came out should've clued the developers in on that. I for one, would very much like to see:

1. Proc Coefficients shown in the actual Advanced Tooltip of all skills. Either in the corner with PC: 1.0 with a loading tip explaining what Proc Coefficients are, or shown right in the skill by saying "has a proc coefficient of 100%".

2. In keeping with this theme: add an option in Gameplay for a numerical timer on buffs/skills. Some of my skill icons make it impossible to read how much time is left on a skill (i.e. Battle Rage) just because as the skill darkens, you simply cannot read the indicator.
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I would pay 10 dollars for a blizzard maintained list of proc scalars and tick rates (as well as how ticks are affected by attack speed.

That would take 2 hours to write up for a webpage if you had the code up and would save the community weeks worth of trial and error work, and endless discourse.

Of course it would be awesome if it were in the UI, tied to the actual rates, so we could detect nerfs and buffs that didn't make the patch notes, but even a text list with each patch would be awesome.
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why is it important to balance the game? it's a pve game. nerf skills for a pvp environment or something if you're so worried about it.


It's so that everyone doesn't end up using a few skills such, such as Wrath fo the Berserker, Critical Mass. Which could either mean nerfing those skills or buffing a lot of others. :/

It's about making sure the choices available to you are interesting.
Edited by Ignatius#1870 on 1/11/2013 12:04 PM PST
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I Would like to add that I do not like how low some of these Procc thingies work.
It feels like it´s a complete waste in investing for example in ``Stun`` gear and builds, because the amount of stuns you do is a laughing matter how low they proc.

Money not well spent, I do not like this pigeonholing I want my character to be powerful with ``CONTROLL`` pardon the capps
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Paralysis was god like in may 2012,but now it should be completely removed.
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Regarding your last point. ive got a Mempo of Twilight, 2 Echoing Fury and a Immortal Kings Boulder Breaker from crushing barrels or piles of bones stuff. Its worth it if you just smash them.
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You might want to look into wording on Life Steal for skills and item bonuses also while you're at it. People expect what they see, you shouldn't expect most players to understand that it's not as effective on Inferno as it is on Normal.

Take the Wizard top tier Magic Weapon rune "Blood Magic" which supposedly gives 1.5% Life Steal - this is just plain misleading. First of all it's a top tier skill and secondly there's no indication that it's 80% nerfed on Inferno. And to top it all off, who plays on any skill difficulty lower than Inferno anyway once they are high enough level to use this Rune? And even if they did, they wouldn't need that Life Steal because they'd just steamroll through anyway. This skill rune truly makes no sense at all.
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there are so many "not so good" rolls in this game such at life after kill, chance to whatever, hellfire rings are pretty much a waste of time and the big thing i cannot stand is getting a manticore tons of dps 2 sockets 90 CD and it rolls strength....makes me rrawrageeee
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I would pay 10 dollars for a blizzard maintained list of proc scalars and tick rates (as well as how ticks are affected by attack speed.

That would take 2 hours to write up for a webpage if you had the code up and would save the community weeks worth of trial and error work, and endless discourse.

Of course it would be awesome if it were in the UI, tied to the actual rates, so we could detect nerfs and buffs that didn't make the patch notes, but even a text list with each patch would be awesome.


+1
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Posts: 161
You might want to look into wording on Life Steal for skills and item bonuses also while you're at it. People expect what they see, you shouldn't expect most players to understand that it's not as effective on Inferno as it is on Normal.

Take the Wizard top tier Magic Weapon rune "Blood Magic" which supposedly gives 1.5% Life Steal - this is just plain misleading. First of all it's a top tier skill and secondly there's no indication that it's 80% nerfed on Inferno. And to top it all off, who plays on any skill difficulty lower than Inferno anyway once they are high enough level to use this Rune? And even if they did, they wouldn't need that Life Steal because they'd just steamroll through anyway. This skill rune truly makes no sense at all.


that's another perfect example with blood magic. I know about these proc.cof stuff and many many times I have equiped blood magic forgetting that I am not getting the full 1.5%. The proc.cof makes it so useless that it seems like it is not working.

If the game told us the exact numbers for everything you do in the tooltip, it would be good for both the players and the devs. The player can see exactly what they are getting and would know to stay away from something like blood magic. The devs can then adjust the skills according to why people are avoiding the skills. Well that's because in most situations people are only getting 0.3% life steal from blood magic, thats why they are avoiding it.
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I'm surprised by the couple of folks who attacked OP and accused him of wanting the game to be "dumbed down". Did you even read his post?

I don't know if this is still accurate, but I was able to find this just in case you're wandering into this thread and going "What are they talking about?!"

http://www.diablofans.com/topic/77837-skill-proc-coefficients-complete-list/

Open the link at the top of his post once you've read and understand. I can't even imagine why people would jump down the OP's throat.

He's right, and now we have a blue post here as well. Not knowing that these hidden numbers can leave alot of people scratching their heads going "What went wrong?" when putting together builds and gear sets.
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01/11/2013 11:52 AMPosted by Grimiku
Proc builds with proper gear can be pretty awesome, but (as the OP noted) for balancing reasons it’s very important to have a scaling proc coefficient.


You guys should make it scale better based on attack speed.
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Related, does anyone have a link to a list of skills and how each one is affected by life on hit?
Edited by Kupo#1759 on 1/11/2013 1:17 PM PST
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Posts: 161
01/11/2013 01:17 PMPosted by Kupo
Related, does anyone have a link to a list of skills and how each one is affected by life on hit?


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgL5S3Revw9ddEhScEpSLWhnRDZKV25OaWZJcHdkN0E#gid=0

look at the bottom to change class.
Edited by Modster#1805 on 1/11/2013 1:21 PM PST
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01/11/2013 01:17 PMPosted by Kupo
Related, does anyone have a link to a list of skills and how each one is affected by life on hit?


Check my post above. I linked a thread that has a Google.doc in it that does just that I believe.
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01/11/2013 12:03 PMPosted by Ignatius
why is it important to balance the game? it's a pve game. nerf skills for a pvp environment or something if you're so worried about it.


It's so that everyone doesn't end up using a few skills such, such as Wrath fo the Berserker, Critical Mass. Which could either mean nerfing those skills or buffing a lot of others. :/

It's about making sure the choices available to you are interesting.


Yeah, great job so far. It's not like everyone's using WotB and CM......
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