Diablo® III

Skills that lie to you.

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Quick question so some passive has this line in them

Critical Hits "have a chance" to...

Does the "have a chance" = proc of each skill?
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Procs are total BS. It is not necessary at all if you ask me. Ok so if I had 5% stun and we think it is too much so they insert this proc and it becomes like .25%. Why not just use and say its .25%. If we are going to have all these procs then the game should calculate the real % and show you that in your details page.

IF there are not more hidden numbers in this game than there was in D2 I'd be shocked. And then they say they wanted to make the game easier by removing allocation of stat points in a skill. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
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What about the Barbarian passive 'Superstition'? "Whenever you take damage from a ranged or elemental attack, you have a chance go gain 3 Fury". How big of a chance? 5%? 10%? 50%?
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Procs are total BS. It is not necessary at all if you ask me. Ok so if I had 5% stun and we think it is too much so they insert this proc and it becomes like .25%. Why not just use and say its .25%. If we are going to have all these procs then the game should calculate the real % and show you that in your details page.


No clue why they didn't just do this in the first place, less ppl would QQ. I think
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Try Wizard Spike with a Wizard (35% chance to cast frozen orb). It's a joke. It doesn't even work with more than half the skills of a wizard because the proc rates are so ridiculous low.

Blizzard gave us update uniques, but took two steps back when they water down the foundation/skills of each character. In reality we got a down grade.
Edited by pkthebird#1549 on 1/11/2013 2:22 PM PST
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Posts: 161
Quick question so some passive has this line in them

Critical Hits "have a chance" to...

Does the "have a chance" = proc of each skill?


I have no clue what the real proc chance would be for those skills. No one know the real % for skills like critical mass or night stalker. even more hidden numbers.

but lets say night stalker had a 5% rate. it would actually be "5% times the proc rate of the skill you are using" so if your skill is 0.5% proc rate. 5%*.5 = 2.5%
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I dunno how things were done in D2, didnt play ARPGs like a maniac back then. But I know how things are done in Path of exile, I can pick up a calculator and calculate my dream build. No tricks, no hidden numbers. Everything is right in front of you. If a skill affix says it gives you 5%, you are getting the full 5%.

I do like D3. I have all 5 lvl 60s, I love the fluid/flasshy combat. however, i can't make a build with my favorite flashy skills no matter how hard I try. Sure whatever I use for MP0 will work, but I can't make any build I like for key hunting, MP5+.

I want to play both D3 and path of exile. however D3 has frustrated me more than it has been fun. Why should I play a frustrating game? do you not care about me jay wilson?


lol I don't care about you . Go play your kiddy game where you can build your perfect build with ease.


How bout you jump off a tall building, or go play in traffic. Nobody likes you and you contribute nothing to any of the threads you post in.

On topic... I feel that the most important thing is showing the proc coefficient on the advanced tool tip.
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It isn't just item procs. It's Life on hit and skills too.
The game is stupidly opaque and vague.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7415642757#

How can so many important factors be overlooked?
These aren't things really discussed on this forum, but for example;

Life on hit;
Let's say you have weapon 'X' with 800 life on hit. You're not really getting 800 life on hit. EVERY single skill in the game has a different % of LoH returned. I'm not even sure of the numbers. Why is this not in game on a tooltip or something? Seriously, think about how big of an overlook that is. You may get 200 LoH from skill 1, and 400 LoH from skill 2. Why can we not tell?

Proc coefficients;
Let's say you have amulet X with 5% chance to blind on hit. Guess what, that's completely false. Going back to proc coefficients, it depends on the skill. These are mechanics build into the games that you apply to various items, even legendaries, but no one really is sure of what they are getting out of it.

Stupid skills like Nightstalker and Critical Mass;
Why does nightstalker only have a "chance" to generate 1 discipline? Or something else having a "chance" to generate fury. Why not say so upright? As in Nightstalker has a 50% chance to generate 1 discipline on a critical hit. And back to procs, EVERY single skill has a different percentage to actually proc Nighstalker. WHY DON'T WE KNOW? Lol!

Life Steal;
Why not make the nerfs throughout the difficulty levels known? I wonder how many noobs are playing this game without ever checking the forums, and believing they are actually getting 3% of the advertised life steal on a weapon.
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01/11/2013 12:36 PMPosted by bjornh
Take the Wizard top tier Magic Weapon rune "Blood Magic" which supposedly gives 1.5% Life Steal - this is just plain misleading.

Found that by trying it... I wanted to play a different class and a different build from the majority, but with so many skills/runes that become quickly useless as you level, you end up with everyone playing the same less than 20 viable builds per class.

They were once selling D3 as offering thousands of different builds but there was one word missing... viable builds.

This is not paper AD&D, it's all computerized, so why it's not showing the correct information on screen is beyond me.
Edited by Rhialto#1451 on 1/11/2013 2:49 PM PST
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01/11/2013 11:52 AMPosted by Grimiku
Thanks for taking the time to write this up. We agree that there’s not a lot of visibility in the game into how proc coefficients work and integrate with item affixes, and we’ve discussed possible ways to improve that. However, I wouldn’t say that they should simply be removed from the game. Proc builds with proper gear can be pretty awesome, but (as the OP noted) for balancing reasons it’s very important to have a scaling proc coefficient.


I have a freeze stun build on my monk, that can almost perm freeze stun blind immobilise ubers.

50% stun, 15% freeze, 3.2aps
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Blizzard feels that balancing the game around regulating market cash flow is more important than having fun.

But with botters showing up Blizzard wanted their cake and it eat it to, letting them completely crash the balance and earning a nice $40/month subscription off the botters.
Edited by Kirishima#1651 on 1/11/2013 3:07 PM PST
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disallow gear swapping during fighting please, blizz.
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Quick question so some passive has this line in them

Critical Hits "have a chance" to...

Does the "have a chance" = proc of each skill?


I have no clue what the real proc chance would be for those skills. No one know the real % for skills like critical mass or night stalker. even more hidden numbers.

but lets say night stalker had a 5% rate. it would actually be "5% times the proc rate of the skill you are using" so if your skill is 0.5% proc rate. 5%*.5 = 2.5%
Skills with chance effects based on you hitting a target (like http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/passive/critical-mass ) use the proc coefficient of the skill you are using to hit the target. So, if you're using Wicked Wind to hit a target with Critical Mass (CM) as your passive, you have a 12.5% chance to proc CM (reduce cooldowns by 1 sec) per hit.

Some skills still have unknown proc coefficients tho, like http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/passive/juggernaut
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MVP
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01/11/2013 11:52 AMPosted by Grimiku
Thanks for taking the time to write this up. We agree that there’s not a lot of visibility in the game into how proc coefficients work and integrate with item affixes, and we’ve discussed possible ways to improve that. However, I wouldn’t say that they should simply be removed from the game. Proc builds with proper gear can be pretty awesome, but (as the OP noted) for balancing reasons it’s very important to have a scaling proc coefficient.

I think a lot less people would be upset if proc coefficients were publicly transparent.
Edited by Drothvader#1215 on 1/11/2013 3:13 PM PST
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I have no clue what the real proc chance would be for those skills. No one know the real % for skills like critical mass or night stalker. even more hidden numbers.

but lets say night stalker had a 5% rate. it would actually be "5% times the proc rate of the skill you are using" so if your skill is 0.5% proc rate. 5%*.5 = 2.5%
Skills with chance effects based on you hitting a target use the proc coefficient of the skill you are using to hit the target. So, if you're using Wicked Wind to hit a target with Critical Mass (CM) as your passive, you have a 12.5% chance to proc CM (reduce cooldowns by 1 sec) per hit.


i see, thanks.

But i dunno, does not make much sense with night stalker tho. I can see the 12% with critical mass but not with night stalker. night stalker does not proc very often at all. i guess it is cause DH does not have anything that per hit+per tic i guess.
Edited by Modster#1805 on 1/11/2013 3:42 PM PST
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Posts: 161
tenletters
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I would pay 10 dollars for a blizzard maintained list of proc scalars and tick rates (as well as how ticks are affected by attack speed.

That would take 2 hours to write up for a webpage if you had the code up and would save the community weeks worth of trial and error work, and endless discourse.

Of course it would be awesome if it were in the UI, tied to the actual rates, so we could detect nerfs and buffs that didn't make the patch notes, but even a text list with each patch would be awesome.


+1


+1000.
All of the proc modifiers have been done by dedicated players with extensive testing just to figure out why shlt wasnt working to realize that there were coefficients. To this day I don't even know all the coefficients for a lot of the abilities due to using several characters with different builds on each.
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People forget that lots of game had hidden mechanics until the theorycrafters found them:
D2 had things like:
- How Poison works.... I dont think people even know yet, it sure was a mess of a system.

- Faster Hit Recovery, Faster Cast Rate, Faster Block Rate, Increased Attack Speed werent percent based. They had specific breakpoints and if you werent at those breakpoints, it was entirely wasted. You had to build your ENTIRE GEAR SET before you even started collecting it to make sure you werent wasting those stats. Then you had to get the chance of seeing them (either through drops, or MORE THAN LIKELY days of joining trade games)
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01/11/2013 03:12 PMPosted by Drothvader
Thanks for taking the time to write this up. We agree that there’s not a lot of visibility in the game into how proc coefficients work and integrate with item affixes, and we’ve discussed possible ways to improve that. However, I wouldn’t say that they should simply be removed from the game. Proc builds with proper gear can be pretty awesome, but (as the OP noted) for balancing reasons it’s very important to have a scaling proc coefficient.

I think a lot less people would be upset if proc coefficients were publicly transparent.


Wow. Thank you Droth for summing this up correctly i might add.
That is EXACTLY how i feel about it. (not being sarcastic)
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