Diablo® III

Building a Sweeping Wind Monk?

I'm not talking about the exploit/snapshot version but just having the regular build itself. I know that having Inna's set is needed but is it better to have a shield and a fast 1h or dual wield?

I have about 70 mill on a brand new monk I want to spend.
Reply Quote
Posts: 7,260
View profile
Are you planning on swapping weapons for SW snapshotting? If not, then technically its more of a TC build. If you don't swap at all its more like 55:45 of TC:SW+Cyclone and if you use a decent Skorn its probably closer to 50:50. Neither setup requires 4pc Inna's though. Thats just for xping with TR.
Reply Quote
Are you planning on swapping weapons for SW snapshotting? If not, then technically its more of a TC build. If you don't swap at all its more like 55:45 of TC:SW+Cyclone and if you use a decent Skorn its probably closer to 50:50. Neither setup requires 4pc Inna's though. Thats just for xping with TR.


For Cyclone if you don't swap items at all then damage ratio is dependant on critical hit chance and attack speed. These ratios aren't useful because the damage split relies on CHC/IAS. With a Skorn build more damage will come from TC and not the other way around.

I'm not talking about the exploit/snapshot version but just having the regular build itself. I know that having Inna's set is needed but is it better to have a shield and a fast 1h or dual wield?

I have about 70 mill on a brand new monk I want to spend.


This depends on how you want to play. At low MP you can pretty much do whatever you like. Shields are easier because they provide so much mitigation but you may find it more fun to have fast attack speed dual wield. With your budget a decent 10% CHC shield with high dexterity is probably just as good as most cheap weapons. You didn't say which SW rune you were going to use but if you choose Cyclone then generally it's best to prioritize CHC.
Reply Quote
I would probably choose cyclone since I have seen it do lots of dmg. I don't plan to do snapshotting cuz I am lazy, don't understand it fully, and it is getting patched soon. Its prolly going ot be a hard build to make but it seems to do all of the work itself if you can get it done right.
Reply Quote
Posts: 7,260
View profile
For Cyclone if you don't swap items at all then damage ratio is dependant on critical hit chance and attack speed. These ratios aren't useful because the damage split relies on CHC/IAS. With a Skorn build more damage will come from TC and not the other way around.

The ratio won't fluctuate enough with varying CC/IAS values to make generalizing statements like that irrelevant. If you want to be more specific though, it would probably be a small range like 52.5-57.5:47.5-42.5 at the very most.

As far as Skorn, we were both wrong (idk why I said what I did, sleep deprivation maybe? XD) as the ratios actually wouldn't change, unless your dual wielding snapshotting included a WKL.
Edited by gotaplanstan#1369 on 1/12/2013 12:05 PM PST
Reply Quote
4 piece Inna's is generally needed for lower MPs, I would assume you are quite loaded given the gear on ur barb (nice 300th.)

Higher MPs dont really need 4 piece set because of the ample opportunities to generate enough spirit and the fact that WH is needed to get higher dps.

It all depends on your budget though.
Reply Quote
4 piece Inna's is generally needed for lower MPs, I would assume you are quite loaded given the gear on ur barb (nice 300th.)

Higher MPs dont really need 4 piece set because of the ample opportunities to generate enough spirit and the fact that WH is needed to get higher dps.

It all depends on your budget though.


Not reallly. I found a sweet Mempo when patch 1.05 came out and sold for items and money.
Reply Quote
The ratio won't fluctuate enough with varying CC/IAS values to make generalizing statements like that irrelevant. If you want to be more specific though, it would probably be a small range like 52.5-57.5:47.5-42.5 at the very most.

As far as Skorn, we were both wrong (idk why I said what I did, sleep deprivation maybe? XD) as the ratios actually wouldn't change, unless your dual wielding snapshotting included a WKL.


It's simple math. Your new range of ratios is wrong and irrelevant. No I was not wrong about the Skorn.

01/12/2013 11:59 AMPosted by Colbinile
I would probably choose cyclone since I have seen it do lots of dmg. I don't plan to do snapshotting cuz I am lazy, don't understand it fully, and it is getting patched soon. Its prolly going ot be a hard build to make but it seems to do all of the work itself if you can get it done right.


Yes, without swapping items Cyclone is still monk's strongest and most efficient spirit spender. It's not very hard to build. Are you going to use this for tempest rush?
Reply Quote
I was thinking more of a straight sweeping wind build with cyclone. Monk isnt for me but is for my bro since he plays the class. He is level 47 monk. I sold some items and got a nice amount of gold but any upgrades for me cost too much and rather give to bro so he can play and help farm with me.
Reply Quote
01/12/2013 01:47 PMPosted by Colbinile
I was thinking more of a straight sweeping wind build with cyclone. Monk isnt for me but is for my bro since he plays the class. He is level 47 monk. I sold some items and got a nice amount of gold but any upgrades for me cost too much and rather give to bro so he can play and help farm with me.


Pick a single resistance and focus on it. There are plenty of cheap dual resist items on the AH. For DPS there's greater emphasis on CHC over the other stats. CHC and CHD give the greatest DPS gains.
Reply Quote
Posts: 7,260
View profile
It's simple math. Your new range of ratios is wrong and irrelevant. No I was not wrong about the Skorn.

You're right it IS simple math, which I did in another thread. Which means I KNOW that I'm right. Its ok if you THINK you are, but just because you do, doesn't mean you actually are. Since in this case you are in fact WRONG.

edit: And yes, you were wrong about Skorn, just like you were wrong about simple math. It seems you're wrong about everything you've posted in this thread. Case in point:

01/12/2013 07:39 PMPosted by Kaho
CHC and CHD give the greatest DPS gains.

The actual truth is that stat values fluctuate from player to player. And given some of the math Vrkhyz has provided us with, theres a very real possibility that in almost every situation IAS is more valuable than CD.

I would suggest you check out some dps calculators and/or spreadsheets such as:

d3up.com
d3rawr.com
asiangamer.com
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0ApVAeMW4XRfcdHlneGhLMVdpYnFYMUM3R0IydmNFRWc&f=true&noheader=true&gid=8

Since so far ITT you've given some pretty poor advice.
Edited by gotaplanstan#1369 on 1/12/2013 7:57 PM PST
Reply Quote
Whats a good amount of APS to have?
Reply Quote
You're right it IS simple math, which I did in another thread. Which means I KNOW that I'm right. Its ok if you THINK you are, but just because you do, doesn't mean you actually are. Since in this case you are in fact WRONG.

edit: And yes, you were wrong about Skorn, just like you were wrong about simple math. It seems you're wrong about everything you've posted in this thread. Case in point:


Cyclone damage per hit: CHC * Proc Coeffecient * 1.2 * Damage captured at cast
Spirit generator damage per hit: Weapon damage * Generator multiplier
Vortex damage: 0.45 * Damage captured at cast

Damage captured at cast: Weapon damage + Faith in light damage
Faith in light damage: Weapon damage * Attack speed * 0.3 (Basically Weapon DPS * IAS * 0.3)

CHC and IAS move the damage balance towards Sweeping Wind.

Example:
1000 DPS 1.5 attacks per second 10 CHC Thunder clap rune
Weapon damage: 666 Faith in light damage: 300
Cyclone damage per hit: .10 * 1.25 * 1.2 * 966 = ~145
Spirit generator damage per hit: 1.45 * 666 = ~966
Vortex damage: 0.45 * 966 = ~435

1000 DPS 2 attacks per second 30 CHC
Weapon damage: 500 Faith in light damage: 300
Cyclone damage per hit: .30 * 1.25 * 1.2 * 800 = 360
Spirit generator damage per hit: 1.45 * 500 = 725
Vortex damage: 0.45 * 800 = 360

1000 DPS 2 attacks per second 50 CHC
Weapon damage: 500 Faith in light damage: 300
Cyclone damage per hit: .50 * 1.25 * 1.2 * 800 = 600
Spirit generator damage per hit: 1.45 * 500 = 725
Vortex damage: 0.45 * 800 = 585

In the case of the Skorn, cyclone and vortex damage is not as large compared to TC because Faith accounts for less of the "captured damage" for SW. Just as I said, the IAS and CHC values determine the ratio of damage dealt. You, on the other hand, said that TC outweighs SW in damage. Look at the numbers for your range of ratios. They are wrong. I doubt your contrived numbers have any meaning. Your ratios don't even balance in the right direction.

01/12/2013 07:39 PMPosted by Kaho
CHC and CHD give the greatest DPS gains.

The actual truth is that stat values fluctuate from player to player. And given some of the math Vrkhyz has provided us with, theres a very real possibility that in almost every situation IAS is more valuable than CD.


I don't know why you would name plug Vrkhyz. I never said that CD is more important than IAS. I said that CHC and CHD give the greatest DPS gains. Aside from situations where a person decides to horribly gimp his character's main stat, the critical hit aspect of damage calculations yields the greatest gains in DPS.

With full attack speed gear you might hit 90% IAS and you get 1.9 DPS.
With moderate CHC and CHD at 40% and 300% you get 2.2 DPS.
At 50% and 400% you get 3.0 DPS.
At end game with more expensive gear the DPS gain from CHC and CHD is even greater. The attack speed example is with pretty much all IAS gear. Lacuni Prowlers, WH, Tal Rasha's Chest, Mempo or Visage, Dual Wield bonus. IAS doesn't come close to CHC and CHD.

In general for SW Cyclone when your stats are relatively balanced then CHC is more important than IAS. Why? CHC will increase the average damage of all your attacks but it will also increase the chance to spawn tornadoes. IAS doesn't do this. IAS increases DPS by modifying the attack frequency. For some skills IAS will multiply a modifier(Sweeping Wind Vortex, Faith in the Light). For cyclone monks there is a very big difference between IAS and CHC. Because item swapping isn't relevant here then CHC is much more important.

I would suggest you check out some dps calculators and/or spreadsheets such as:

d3up.com
d3rawr.com
asiangamer.com
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0ApVAeMW4XRfcdHlneGhLMVdpYnFYMUM3R0IydmNFRWc&f=true&noheader=true&gid=8

Since so far ITT you've given some pretty poor advice.


I don't need calculators or spreadsheets to do simple math. I don't find my advice poor but if others do then that's fine. At the very least I don't go into threads to post "damage ratios."
Reply Quote
01/12/2013 09:29 PMPosted by Colbinile
Whats a good amount of APS to have?


IAS is good to have but for SW:Cyclone CHC is more important. This does not mean you should neglect IAS.

As an example, your stats are 0% IAS, 30% CHC, and 200% CHD. A 9% IAS ring will bring you to 109% DPS(the DPS increase from tornadoes comes from increased tornado frequency). A 6% CHC ring will bring you to 107.5% average damage and 20% more tornadoes(you spawn 20% more tornadoes and everything including the tornadoes does 7.5% more average damage). Obviously CHC and CHD go hand in hand but 200% CHD isn't a high value at all and in this situation IAS is getting maximum value(purposefully gimped in this situation). Outside of DPS considerations IAS has utility bonuses(glueing to monsters with Thunderclap and spirit generation).
Reply Quote
I read the patch notes about buffs to monk so I am just going to wait and see what they buff in PTR notes and make a decision there.
Reply Quote
Posts: 7,260
View profile
@Kaho
Obviously you do need calculators, or maybe just to figure out how to use the search function on the forums. The proof that you're wrong:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7383708483

As far as you not understanding why Skorn has absolutely no relevance to the TC:SW+Cyclone ratio, its more simple math:

TC = x
SW+Cyclone = y
your total edps = z

Normally x+y=z

So when your pdps increases by a certain amount, lets say 25% for simplistic's sake, the equation changes to (x*1.25)+(y*1.25) = z*1.25

This is actually known as something, another "simple math" expression, called the multiplicative property of equality. Its used to solve fractional problems in high school algebra if I recall correctly.
Edited by gotaplanstan#1369 on 1/12/2013 11:33 PM PST
Reply Quote
4 piece Inna's is generally needed for lower MPs, I would assume you are quite loaded given the gear on ur barb (nice 300th.)

Higher MPs dont really need 4 piece set because of the ample opportunities to generate enough spirit and the fact that WH is needed to get higher dps.

It all depends on your budget though.

higher MPs ? What does MP stand for?
Reply Quote
It's interesting that you would link to your own thread. I just tested on Normal Ghom(17799 health) with a low DPS dagger. At ~2 APS and 50% CHC, without SW Ghom dies in 96 seconds for ~185 Thunderclap DPS. With SW Ghom dies in 44 for 404 DPS. Leaving the TC:SW ratio at 185:219. How am I wrong to say that IAS and CHC dictate the damage ratios?

TC = x
SW+Cyclone = y
your total edps = z

Normally x+y=z

So when your pdps increases by a certain amount, lets say 25% for simplistic's sake, the equation changes to (x*1.25)+(y*1.25) = z*1.25

This is actually known as something, another "simple math" expression, called the multiplicative property of equality. Its used to solve fractional problems in high school algebra if I recall correctly.


Are you planning on swapping weapons for SW snapshotting? If not, then technically its more of a TC build. If you don't swap at all its more like 55:45 of TC:SW+Cyclone and if you use a decent Skorn its probably closer to 50:50. Neither setup requires 4pc Inna's though. Thats just for xping with TR.


If you don't swap at all its more like 55:45 of TC:SW+Cyclone and if you use a decent Skorn its probably closer to 50:50

Yes using a Skorn does matter. Why? Skorn has low attack speed. If you compare to different "competent" weapon choices then you'll realize that Skorn ratios will favor Thunderclap more than the others(dual wield or critical shield). Using the same test on Ghom with 30% CHC gear and no IAS gear(in order to stress TC ratios). With SW, a 11 DPS dagger kills Ghom in 57 seconds. With SW, a 11 DPS slow 2 hand kills Ghom in 50 seconds. Slow weapons favor put more emphasis on TC. In your post you say the exact opposite.

Do you understand now? Perhaps you should get Vrkhyz to school you.
Reply Quote
Posts: 7,260
View profile
WHOOOOOOOOSH

Thats the sound of math flying RIGHT over your head.
Reply Quote
Posts: 7,260
View profile
Its funny that now you're using my initial post, which I admitted was wrong in the next post I made, as your argument lol.

I'd say stop while you're ahead, but you've already ran the red light and got on the offramp headed the wrong way, and are 3 miles down the freeway.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]