Diablo® III

Suggestions for WD Skills 1.0.2

They really don't need to give us something like resource on crit.

I really don't think it should be easy (if possible at all) to go infinite mana, and if they did want to let us go infinite, they could just lower our mana costs, they don't need to spend time programming some gimicy stat that becomes required on our gear, and invalidates a ton of current gear.

The other option would be to up our base mana pool, or allow more pieces of gear to roll max mana, or make a few new legends with + max mana.

Personally, I would say drop the mana costs on pretty much everything down by some percentage that doesn't break the game. Then we would be a bit more free to use stuff like attack speed or faster 1h weapons without having a 10bil budget.
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Blizz confirmed that our mana system is working as it was supposed to. So don't expect any mana on crit. What I do hope is that they balance all classes by taking out Resource on Crit/Hit affix or passives from the game.
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I would like to see a legendary WD spear :)
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Mana regen would not be a problem if the design were respected (at least the design i see when i look at wd skills). It is currently a problem because it is not respected.
If you look wd skills, you notice that we have 3 big categories of skills :
1. Direct damage skills (divide in 2 : burst or not burst => burst is huge damage, in short time but with high mana cost and not burst is average damage with confortable mana cost)
2. Dot damage skills (divide in 2 : single or multiple target => basically haunt or locust)
3. Control skills (pets, slow, confusion, hex...)

The big problem is that we have no efficient Dot so the only way to feel damaging mobs is the burst damage skills which result in a problem of mana, as expected from that kind of skills. You cannot use a burst skill every time or it is not a burst...

The control skills should be up too, not because they are not efficient but because some are far better than others.

That kind of build should be viable from mp0 to mp10 :
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#ahUjfP

You got dart for single target, locust for multiple target Dot, bear for burst, confusion and fetish for control.
Unfortunetly the build is far inferior (if it even works..) than bear alone or C4dogs.

(disguised up :D)
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Chris
I would say drop the mana costs on pretty much everything down by some percentage that doesn't break the game.

Thing is if we got more base mana, would we ever go back to primary or Dots?
Most likely not. We would spam our more powerful spells even more often after the change, so we'd skip primaries and dots in favour of Bears and Bears alone.

(Unless that extra mana regen came at a huge cost to dps. Then we'd have second thoughts.)

Neurf


2. Dot damage skills (divide in 2 : single or multiple target => basically haunt or locust)

I consider many other spells as Dots as well: Spiders, Pyrogeist, GotD, Acid Cloud, Phantasm, Wall of Zombies, and even Zombie Dogs, Gargantuan and Fetish Army can be categorized as Dots.

True. But you are using two low tier skills, locusts and fetish. You could replace them for GotD and Gargantuan, and that build should work well at high MP. It would be viable but I don't know if it would be as efficient as focusing on Bears.
Edited by JangBahadur#1968 on 5/3/2013 2:29 PM PDT
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Sorry if this has been suggested before (too many pages to scour through) but I had a thought about Cloud of Bats. Everyone's seen the videos from the PTR and it's easy to see how powerful it could be but it still has a few weaknesses. I tried it a couple of times (not on PTR) just to give it a whirl and it's fun but the main shortcoming I found, as have many others, is the range is way to small. You can draw in the mobs but some melee types are close enough to attack you without getting hit by the bats so you have to stop channeling and move a fraction to hit them and with the increased starting cost it's just not worth it.
Now if we could increase the range in relation to our PUR that would help a ton. Obviously not a 1:1 ratio, though I'm sure a 20 yard CoB would be awesome fun it would be ridiculously OP, but maybe a 10:1 ratio, i.e. 10 yards of PUR = 1 yard increase to range of Cob, not overly powerful but would make using it a lot more worthwhile. Many Wd stack PUR already for other skills so fits in well with our builds and gearing without being over the top.
Any other thoughts on this?
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@JangBahadur :
Locust and haunt were only examples for miltiple and single target Dots. Of course we got a lot more Dots, like Acid cloud, Phantasm or GotD (even if that last can be place in both control and Dot, justifying its cd, at least part of it...).

What i meant was : if each category (damage, Dots and control) played correctly their role, we wouldn't have any mana regen problem.
To take the example of Bear Builds, if we got Dots to help us to kill, we would need to cast less bear and so we won't have mana problem.

The build i put for example was made by following Blizz category, in order to show that their logic is not working because some of its part is not efficient enough. It should be more efficient that focusing on bear alone, because it is more mana balanced.
I really think that our skills are never designed to kill by themselves but to support each other to kill. So using only one skill is a bad thing for a wd, game design speaking.
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05/04/2013 01:00 AMPosted by Pasco
Sorry if this has been suggested before (too many pages to scour through) but I had a thought about Cloud of Bats. Everyone's seen the videos from the PTR and it's easy to see how powerful it could be but it still has a few weaknesses.

I think those weaknesses are quite necessary now that they upped the damage to 500%-600% at max (I have been hearing 1000% from some). Before patch 1.0.8 I would agree with your suggestions. Some said that CoB should be like Barb WW and DH Strafe where you can move while casting. Other said that Pickup should increase its radius. Both were awesome suggestions. But now that the damage is so good, I don't think it needs those things to be fun and efficient. Let's see what new builds the community comes up with.

Neurf,
A lot of what you say is true.
05/04/2013 05:54 AMPosted by Neurf
The build i put for example was made by following Blizz category, in order to show that their logic is not working because some of its part is not efficient enough. It should be more efficient that focusing on bear alone, because it is more mana balanced.

Totally. The game should work well without elective mode turned on.
05/04/2013 05:54 AMPosted by Neurf
I really think that our skills are never designed to kill by themselves but to support each other to kill. So using only one skill is a bad thing for a wd, game design speaking.

I think that's true for the other classes too.

However, I disagree with:
What i meant was : if each category (damage, Dots and control) played correctly their role, we wouldn't have any mana regen problem.

I think we'd still have mana "problems". The nature of resource is that you always want more of it. (Those classes with infinite resources have broken resource). Mana is where the devs want it to be at. I am totally cool with that decision. However, Dot skills definitely need improvement. Hopefully Travis is still paying attention to this thread. It has evolved quite a bit since he last replied and is going to keep evolving in the future ;)
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Why not with either of the dots (swarm and haunt) have a reapplication apply the damage remaining to be dealt instantly. If it be increasing resource cost, a flat or arbitrary amount of damage, even a percentile of remaining damage to be incurred.
They are really really slow at killing anything and end being used as low mp grist generators. Or. as mana generators.

Especially with swarm, in a pack reapplication is semi random. Making it interesting.
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Ok so I thought to myself mybe the new dmg on bats will out weigh the new up front mana cost on bats when I hit one of thoughs elite packs were you just cant stand still right.

Ooooommmm so much faster now and here is the kick in the balls. I freaking use Hungery bats so I did not even get a dmg inc. WTF?

How did Hungery bats and Dire bats get kicked in the teeth with the new mana cost but no inc in dmg?

On the up side I can freaking channel Hungery bats all day long if I dont have to move like on white trash that you know dies in a few sec anyways?

Do's blizz even still realy try to balance stuff?

Any way back to Path of Exile.
Edited by Umbra#1460 on 5/9/2013 7:23 AM PDT
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Umbra, just use Plague Bats with pets.

Weeping Hollow is a Thorn Doctor heaven now.
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How about you make pets trigger Vision Quest?
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Gruesome Feast should not count down from 5 stacks to 1. It should stay at whatever amount you get it up to until the timer runs out, like soul harvest. It's dumb that you can run around with a 1 stack for 10 seconds but a 5 stack only lasts a couple seconds.
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Witch Doctors need more ranged pets. I wouldn't mind having to rune Zombie Dogs or Gargantuan to get them, because I frequently get large armies of melee pets and some of them are wasted because they can't reach the mobs. The Fetish Army tiki torchers and poison dart fetishes are good, but they only last 20 seconds. It would be great to have more versatility as a summoner WD, and I think that ranged pets fill a nice niche.
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The Diablo 2 necromancer was the best rendition of a minion class that I have ever seen in a video game. I don't think even Blizzard will ever make a class as close to as awesome as that class was ever again. The Witch Doctor in D3 is barely a minion class. I would be happy with WD pets if they could do more than simply take a couple hits. Pets don't scale with your damage like they should (crit chance, dmg, attack speed), so relying on them to kill monsters in higher MP levels just doesn't work out. An all out Minion Master is just incredibly underwhelming. The only way to be effective damage wise with pets is to blow them up (which subsequently means you have no tanks), and get swarmed by baddies. I remember seeing the WD in the early videos before D3 came out and I got the feeling that I wouldnt get out of it what I got out of the Diablo 2 necromancer (which I played for at least five years). When my barbarian can crit mobs repeatedly every 1.5 seconds for 2-3 million damage, who cares if my gargantuan hits for 60k, and occassionally crits for 90? Who cares about my dogs 6k damage per hit? the only thing they do ok at is acting as meat shields, and against some tough opponents they get destoyed very quickly. Granted, I am pleasantly surprised when I noticed that most or all of my dogs survived an E encounter, which isnt too rare of an occurence. It isnt their survivability I am conerned with anyways. there are tons of really cool ways to raise new dogs through passives or runes. The problem I have is that even by focusing all of my attention on trying to make my pets as awesome as they can be through gear (life regen/thorns builds, maxing my damage to indirectly buff theirs, etc), passives, and runes, they are still, at best, meat shields. this isnt really even a WD specific issue, but really an issue with every class that has summonable minions such as Mystic Ally, Sentries, animal companions, Call of the Ancients, etc. The damage from these skills just doesnt scale with gear. Load a barbarian up with crazy amounts of strength and raw base damage and he will still do blah damage. But, increase their cc,chd, and attack speed, and their dps goes through the roof exponentially. Sadly, minions gain none of these bonuses. My WD has 400%+ critical hit damage and over 50% critical hit chance and attacks really fast. My minions should have all of those bonuses too. Whirlwind and just about every other direct damage skill benefits from these attributes, how come the skills that do indirect damage through summonables dont benefit as well? I dont need a WD running around with 20 skeleton warriors, 20 mages, a golem, and 35 revived monsters. I need a WD with pets that can actually help me take down mp10 monsters with extra health affix. I need WD pets that are competitive with other abilities that do direct damage. I need pets that scale with the gear I farm and buy in a more direct way.
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05/09/2013 08:09 PMPosted by Brock
Witch Doctors need more ranged pets. I wouldn't mind having to rune Zombie Dogs or Gargantuan to get them, because I frequently get large armies of melee pets and some of them are wasted because they can't reach the mobs. The Fetish Army tiki torchers and poison dart fetishes are good, but they only last 20 seconds. It would be great to have more versatility as a summoner WD, and I think that ranged pets fill a nice niche.


Yes, yes and yes!!!! I've been rooting for a ranged pet build (Tiki and Hunter) for a while. I really like those two pets but 20s from a pathetic skill is just not enough. Their damage is also way too low at 15% and 20%.

WD has the "tools" but they just don't buff them enough to compete.

There is no "true summoner" in D3 and I don't know why that is. Let the players decide if the build is boring to play or not.

WD really needs a pet-heavy damage build. Firebats is nice but most WD players choose WD for the pets.
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I think you could improve the crowd control WD skills, changing the Haunt mechanic, for example. It's a really nice skill but right now it's useless for pvE. Make it work like Locust Swarm, jumping from targets, or at least change one rune that make it possible (Lingering spirit, imo). No big damage or unlimited free cast, just the feel that we could be affecting all the monsters with our skills managing dot uptime.

Also, you could change the pets to have their power scalable through kills. Starting at 50% ( recently summoned) and getting 1% more per monster kill, up to a maximum of 125%. The range could be affected by pickup radius.
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@Nickamus

D2 necro is indeed awsome.

http://www.pathofexile.com/

Try Path of Exile Witch summoner build and you will say it too is indead awsome.

It's free to play in open beta still only 3 acts but it is already better then D3 in most casses. And a 4th act is coming.

There going to keep it Free to play and the shop only sales specail effects graphics for spells and stuff like that.

The normal spells look good the shop reskins look freaking awsome though. So it has and will keep making mony with out turning the game pay to win.

Has HC mode and PvP modes as well if your down for that kind of thing.

This shops reskins are reclaim able. So also reuseable you cant delete or sale an iteam or ablity with a reskin on it so you will not mistakenly loss it.

We have real cures and summons OMG!

So if your looking for that grand D2 Necro feel with a newer game come try it bro.
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Also, you could change the pets to have their power scalable through kills. Starting at 50% ( recently summoned) and getting 1% more per monster kill, up to a maximum of 125%. The range could be affected by pickup radius.

That's a neat idea. If I remember correctly, Dire Wolves from D2 ate corpses of slain enemies to get stronger temporarily.

I think what could also be done is that those skills that summon Zombie Dogs (Death is Life, Devolution, Boogie Man, Circle of Life and maybe even the Zombie Dog skill itself) could buff your Zombie Dog DPS when they proc above 3-4 dogs. So when you have full set of Dogs out, they buff the Dogs that are there instead of summoning more. So rather than not doing anything (which is their current state) they could buff Zombie Dog damage to be useful.

Even though I like WD's playstyle with temporary pets (bears, bats, spiders), I think it's important to be able to play him like Necro with his pets doing majority of the work. The framework is already here, only small changes are necessary. WD has enough perma pets (dogs, gargy) and semi-perma pets (fetish) in place to play like a Zookeeper. The only thing missing is pet DPS and survivability. We need several ways to increase Pet dps in the game (in form of not just items but also skills) and we need teh devs to fix Fetish survivability.
Edited by JangBahadur#1968 on 6/8/2013 11:14 PM PDT
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