Diablo® III

Suggestions for WD Skills 1.0.2

While changing useless runes and skills itself is a good idea (why only on a WD, check DH it is class with worst skills diversity ever in my opinion) what OP suggest here is a pure imbalance.
I hope Blizzards first will test balance before changing everything radically.
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02/26/2013 03:29 AMPosted by skywalkerfx
They will take notice of it.


Just wish they'd leave a comment or 2 so we know they're there, I'm really happy that someone anyone from Blizzard has taken notice of the WD it's really good.

OP again like myself please keep posting until we get noticed.
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Thank you for your acknowledgement that we exist. I hope you do not mistake the fact that just because Witch Doctor's have the most build diversity, there is still dramatic room for improvement within the class. Some scalability mechanics have also been concern that has been addressed and ideas expressed.

Glad to see a Developer looking at some of the improvement recommendations the players have.


You are correct, there is always room for improvement. My Witch Doctor is probably my character I have the most fun with but there are certainly abilities I have plans to improve. For example I have always really enjoyed damage over time based characters and was pretty disappointed when I tried to build my WD around that idea. Locust Swarm is pretty fun and I liked using it but it was hard to justify giving it a place in my build. Haunt is in the same boat but I think Haunts problems are very clear and easily addressed in a future update.

Also, I put a lot of the ideas in this thread into my current list of ideas for improving the WD so I'm here to do more than just give you guys a pat on the back. The ideas and suggestions in this thread are great and community input is sincerely appreciated. You will absolutely see some of these ideas down the road and when you do you will be able to take pride in knowing that these were your ideas and they were awesome.


Oh man look at that... a blue quoting me. I feel like a rock star.
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Now you don't have to feel so bad when an upgrade post isn't addressed to you. :)

You are way up there in WD forum esteem points!
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Now you don't have to feel so bad when an upgrade post isn't addressed to you. :)

You are way up there in WD forum esteem points!


Haha I was actually thinking about putting up a new thread asking for gear advice from anyone BUT you and Chuck :P But I think that sarcasm would have been taken the wrong way. I tend to be overly sarcastic at times which people might find offensive.
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And I'm going to have to make posts for you to specifically answer if you complain again. :)
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1) Being able to move while casting Cloud of Bats - decrease damage and mana cost, increase radius.
2) Spider Queen being permanent until death - slow/web attacks 50% snare.
3) Mass Hallucination being a charm rather then confuse. Charming mobs to be my allies have always been something I've enjoyed in a game.
4) Locus Swarm need it's damage boosted a bit. It's a great skill and animation that works great for low MP but sadly utterly useless in higher MP's.
5) Id like to see Rain Dance mana regen work for all players in a party, effecting their recorses aswell.

My 2 kronor.

Great thread. Keep it up!
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I... have hope again
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Holy cow. First time ever that I clicked on a "recent blue post" from the forum home page and it took me to the WD forum. I had to click back and do it again just to double check.

That's amazing. GG OP! I'm not gonna say I agree with every suggestion you've made but you've certainly broken new ground.
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02/25/2013 02:18 PMPosted by Travis Day
For example I have always really enjoyed damage over time based characters and was pretty disappointed when I tried to build my WD around that idea. Locust Swarm is pretty fun and I liked using it but it was hard to justify giving it a place in my build. Haunt is in the same boat but I think Haunts problems are very clear and easily addressed in a future update.
Glad to hear there's a dev that likes the DOT play style.

I love that play style. I'll list the drawbacks (for me) for this particular style in D3.

Locust Swarm - The range is so limiting. I don't expect it to be like Haunt's range (can hit targets off the screen often), but currently it's far too short to make it worth using.
Haunt - It's difficult to tell who has a haunt effect on them and who doesn't. I've re-Haunted the same target multiple times simply because I couldn't see if I had already hit it with Haunt.
Grasp of the Dead - Up the damage a little. It's primarily a CC tool right now. I don't want, or expect, it to be viable as an AOE dot, but I often use for little more than making the nameplates show up on packs.
Zombie Dogs: Burning - Up the weapon % a little. 2% is pretty insignificant. Maybe closer to 5-9% would be better.
Gargie: Big Stinker - Increase the range of the AOE. Many times I've watched as Gargie is in the middle of a huge pack (10-20) and only about 6 enemies are taking damage from his AOE. The Dogs' AOE feels larger.

General DOT change - DOTs can crit*, but they don't visually display as such. So when they do, it's not noticeable visually.

*I know it's not the same as a melee/ranged/direct damage crit, but they do crit. Meaning they do more damage than normal. Tested this multiple times with Haunt and Locust.
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02/26/2013 01:54 PMPosted by Caz
For example I have always really enjoyed damage over time based characters and was pretty disappointed when I tried to build my WD around that idea. Locust Swarm is pretty fun and I liked using it but it was hard to justify giving it a place in my build. Haunt is in the same boat but I think Haunts problems are very clear and easily addressed in a future update.
Glad to hear there's a dev that likes the DOT play style.

I love that play style. I'll list the drawbacks (for me) for this particular style in D3.

Locust Swarm - The range is so limiting. I don't expect it to be like Haunt's range (can hit targets off the screen often), but currently it's far too short to make it worth using.
Haunt - It's difficult to tell who has a haunt effect on them and who doesn't. I've re-Haunted the same target multiple times simply because I couldn't see if I had already hit it with Haunt.
Grasp of the Dead - Up the damage a little. It's primarily a CC tool right now. I don't want, or expect, it to be viable as an AOE dot, but I often use for little more than making the nameplates show up on packs.
Zombie Dogs: Burning - Up the weapon % a little. 2% is pretty insignificant. Maybe closer to 5-9% would be better.
Gargie: Big Stinker - Increase the range of the AOE. Many times I've watched as Gargie is in the middle of a huge pack (10-20) and only about 6 enemies are taking damage from his AOE. The Dogs' AOE feels larger.

General DOT change - DOTs can crit*, but they don't visually display as such. So when they do, it's not noticeable visually.

*I know it's not the same as a melee/ranged/direct damage crit, but they do crit. Meaning they do more damage than normal. Tested this multiple times with Haunt and Locust.


Also, making ATSPD increase the number of ticks would be great, since the ceremonial daggers' stats would benefit more that kind of play.

And to the OP, making sychophants proc for each attack and not with the %proc (the %proc of spiders for jar is a lot lower than darts or ROT, making it a very poor choice as primary, because it relies the attack of each spider the main proc, and those don't count to summon a fetish)
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(Fire Bats)

A lot of potential for build diversity in this currently drunk and wasted skill. Allow us to move with 100% movespeed (or some say even 75%) while casting it! Same as the Barbarian whirlwind and Demon Hunter Strafe!

WW Bats, melee WD anyone?


Instead of this I would like to see the rune changed to this:

Call forth a swirl of bats that damage nearby enemies for 234% weapon damage as Fire. The damage of the bats increases by 20% every half a second, up to a maximum of 100%. Also the area of effect at max damage is increased to 18 yards.

Or even: Area of effect at max damage is increased by half of the WD pick up radius.
Edited by rockon87#1616 on 2/26/2013 11:10 PM PST
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-Something i would realy hope blizzard considers is an extra passiv slot.
I think atleast 4 passivs would make more builds come alive. (could be added in paragon lvl)
there are just some skills u cant live without and others u want to have.

- Another awsome thing would be some of the passive skill like (circel of life) could produce more then ur max zombie dogs /but instead maybe lower the chance of happening
also the big bad voodoo skill rune (boogie man) could get this buff

- It would be cool if zombie dogs % dmg got better and maybe remove crit like dh's sentry build considering they can have 3 sentry with right passiv that does 175%+rune kinda makes the dogs feel weak.

- Zombie dogs, I think in general they have cool diffrent runes but what about having the color of the dogs u like best and having the rune i like?

- The none rune skill has sometimes a realy cool look but we can never use it more then when lvling a new one lol.
same goes for companion (raven) on dh and other skills
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also remove reflect dmg form pets on siege breaker and uber siege otherwise nice remove on reflect and great post here
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Hello JangBahadur,
First, thank you for taking the time to do this, I hope you'll keep it updated often.
You should start using links to the posts in your own thread instead of giving details in your OP, since you have not reserved the second and third posts to continue filling in. Or you'll soon reach the max 10k characters limit.
You could also add a link at the end of your first post to the 5th where you could use the space for continuing the first.

I'd like to start my contribution with criticizing other posts. My concern is to make the suggested changes balanced, thus interesting to devs. Overpowered suggestions are the main pitfalls, and could lead the thread to be discarded. WDs needs a lot of attention and refactoring in order to increase it's build diversity, and restore it's status of big bad voodoo user as described by Blizzard.

02/25/2013 03:32 PMPosted by Dikembe
One idea I suggested in another thread was giving Zombie Dogs the ability to cast Locust Swarm if you have both skills.

I disagree. This would be too imbalanced. In its current state locus swarm is way too weak and needs a buff to be played. Once this is done, combining it to dogs would be too OP.
And if not given a buff, then putting it on dogs would be the only interesting way to use it, meaning you'd be stuck with dogs as mandatory for locus swarm.

02/25/2013 03:42 PMPosted by SKORPIQN
Hopefully Toad of Hugeness is on your list.

Yes it should be. And unlike what JangBahadur think, I do no believe it would be OP. Just compare it to hex, that would mean 2 elites out of the way for 5s. It take 2 slots on the bar, so it would not be OP.

02/25/2013 03:44 PMPosted by HardCopy
My sugestion would be to have a passive that increases the proc rate of pets with the number of pets in your build.

This was the case pre 1.0.4. I can't phantom why they nerfed it (dogs ablazed and big stinker). This should be the case. I understand that it can get too powerful if not tested correctly, but still that would re-instantiate WD as crowd controller.

Fetish Sycophants suggestion from JangBahadur's OP is very good. Currently they are useless.

02/25/2013 05:54 PMPosted by Kyoshi
is there a way to maybe lower the mana cost of

I believe the mana system is very good as it is. All those people that are asking for free mana regen do not want to bother exploring the many solutions we have to cope with it since they are not willing to sacrifice a few passives slots or piece of gear.
Recently a build has been post that is capable to spam bears indefinitely with MASSIVE attack speed thanks to haunt. But it's not the only possibility: C4Proctor generates infinite mana; another build is able to spam acid cloud just with correct gear and passives; Well of Soul users can perma spam spirit barrage with blood ritual and rush of essence and even gain mana while doing it. And I am not even mentioning all those build on VQ (which could use just a tiny buff from 30% to 50%) with mana leaching spider or cast and forget queen spider or pyrogeist.

02/26/2013 01:54 PMPosted by Caz
Locust Swarm - The range is so limiting.

Disagree. This skill can wipe out an entire screen and more! I t has to be a bit difficult to cast. Simply to get to close quarter is actually not that a big drawback. It's damage suck however, and that is the very reason nobody uses it, unless having overpowered gear and farming mp0.

02/26/2013 01:54 PMPosted by Caz
Haunt - It's difficult to tell who has a haunt effect on them and who doesn't.

It actually depends on which rune you use. The one that slows is fine, but the one with a buff in dps is totally invisible ^^

02/26/2013 01:54 PMPosted by Caz
Grasp of the Dead - Up the damage a little.

Yes and no. Again, depending on the rune it might be a good idea such as the rain of corpse. It is supposed to be a rune for damage, but definitely isn't. But globally, grasp is useful for slowing ennemies and should remain this way.

Zombie Dogs: Burning - Up the weapon % a little
Gargie: Big Stinker - Increase the range of the AOE

That would be nice. But it would be nicer if they could get back their proc ability pre 1.0.4.

02/26/2013 01:54 PMPosted by Caz
DOTs can crit*, but they don't visually display as such

Yes this is what I consider a bug, that the numbers do not show correctly. Same goes for hexed targets which even do not show anything!

02/26/2013 11:51 PMPosted by UndeadKnight
I think atleast 4 passivs would make more builds come alive.

I think that would be too OP. We have to make choices to create builds, and come up with complementary gear to help it out. As it is, even if it does seem restrictive, it is fine.

02/27/2013 12:01 AMPosted by UndeadKnight
also remove reflect dmg form pets

Not remove it, but direct it correctly to them instead of us.
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ZeMickey, I am at 17k characters. Lol

Thanks for your critiques. I hope you are going to be posting suggestions soon enough.

On Toad of Hugeness: if it swallows elites then it is essentially the same as Hex. I think we need to change it so that it is different from Hex.
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On a side note, another interesting change I would personally like to see is in skills such as Grave Injustice. It says that it has a radius of 8 yards. Wonder how much work it would be for them to, instead, display what the radius of Grave Injustice is including your PUR. Maybe they don't want to do this?
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02/27/2013 08:08 AMPosted by ZeMickey
Not remove it, but direct it correctly to them instead of us.

Agree

4 passiv might be to op but i still think it can add a big spice
atm there are like 1-2 passiv skills on all char. that many cant live without or needs to have (pure dps)
lets just say dh (archery) its a realy nice passiv what ever u use and u can almost not pass out on it? but what if i want sentry build for one more sentry? well then i will drop that pure dmg and it will not be worth it?
then u prob need a defensiv skill eather disiplin regen or maybe hatred some how
and then u prob want steady aim caus ur not realy ever close? (20% dmg)
the dmg helps alot to the sentry build u can have diffrent skills but in the end many dps passive skills kinda are a must and opening one more slot could creat alot more diffrent wants and like i posted it can be added as a reward for lvl 50?/100? paragon lvl
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My suggestion for Toad of Affinity:
- Instead of remove the mana cost. Improve the AI of the toads so they chase its target.
- Increase the amount of toad will be spawned by 100% but reduce the damage of each toad by 50%. (zerging toads!!!!!)
- Increase the lifespan of toads. (optional)
- Code the AI so that toads will not chase the same target if they(toads) were spawned from the same cast of Toad of Affinity.

Example of the AI:
1.] X toads will spawn from a single cast of Toad of Affinity and each of them will belong to the same "unit group".
3.] Every "hop interval", each toad will search and pick an enemy within Y yard. If an enemy was picked by another toad in same "unit group", ignore that enemy and pick another one; if there is no valid target, pick a random location within Y yard.
4.] Each toads will hop toward their picked target by Z yard.
5a.] If a toad touched an enemy/destroyable item, it will explode and deals damage.
5b.] If a toad explode on its picked target, and the target is still alive, the target will available to be picked by another toad.
6.] Repeat 3-6

* Unless the picked enemy was move out of its search range (Y yard), a toad will never repick its target on each interval.
* If you cast fast enough, 2 or more toads may chasing the same target since they are not from the same 'unit group'.
Edited by TheOvermind#1181 on 2/27/2013 12:05 PM PST
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