Diablo® III

How to Make Loot Fun - Potential of D3

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wth, why dont you give up, it's pretty obvious that blizz does not want to make the game awesome or a worthy d2 successor.
They're just offering cheap changes with minimum of effort while ignore core problems, since 8 months already. The only things we'll get are minior changes and more BOA items.
Dont keep your hopes up, meanwhile it's just milk a dead cow.
@OP, BLZ should hire you. Good post
WoW. Respect to you and your work!You make very good points on parallel progression, and then design your suggestion in detail. Amazing!


Good start! What systems do you agree with and what problems do you see? Did you understand every concept?
um... Very nice work there, but the devs don't want any of this. It clashes with their design philosophy of having the current auction house economy as the only source of character improvement. And even if once in a while some itemization features creep in, like the Marquise class, it will be reserved to the few random generated winners of the auction house economy because it will be so expensive that most of us can't even get near it.
For your own peace of mind, please assume from now on that the makers of this game are mentally unable to grasp the concept of fair play or gaming fun.


+1
90 Night Elf Druid
10150
+1, lots of hardwork put into this, and i could see this working.

I hope a blue responds or at least acknowledges this effort.

++++++1000000 for jewels coming back into the game.

They need more little diablo things back in the game.

Charms

Jewels

Runes

I want more.
Edited by Shaunaxo#1574 on 1/17/2013 5:56 AM PST
wth, why dont you give up, it's pretty obvious that blizz does not want to make the game awesome or a worthy d2 successor. They're just offering cheap changes with minimum of effort while ignore core problems, since 8 months already. The only things we'll get are minior changes and more BOA items.Dont keep your hopes up, meanwhile it's just milk a dead cow.


Wouldn't it be much better to just reanimate the cow with minimal effort?

If these systems aren't implemented (yet) there is a reason for it, it has downsides. If you remove the downsides Blizzard is going to add these systems to the game.
+1, lots of hardwork put into this, and i could see this working. I hope a blue responds or at least acknowledges this effort.++++++1000000 for jewels coming back into the game. They need more little diablo things back in the game.CharmsJewelsRunesI want more.


Do you have any ideas for new jewelaffixes that encourage dedication? Assuming there would be let's say a max of 25 jewelslots (5 perfectly rolled white/blue items), how would you encourage people to dedicate to specifically search for one affix at the cost of bad rolles on the other affixes. I used the "affinity" affix as an example for this.

Affinity increases elemental dmg. Jewels that have the same affinity stack with themselves. Example one jewel has 5% fire affinity and the second jewel has 6% fire affinity. If you socket both jewels you would get 11.3% increased fire damage (1.06*1.05=1.113). So the more of these affinity jewels you have the better. The normal "increase fire damage" affix has higher rolls though (up to 8%). If you want to absolutely blast with fire damage you can try to find perfectly rolled fire affinity jewels. But of course jewels with a perfect fire affinity jewel usually aren't going to have very good rolls on the other affix. If you (somehow) manage to find 25 perfectly rolled fire affix jewels (after 1000hours) you could get (1.06^25=4.29) 329% increased fire damage! if you don't dedicate yourself entirely to fire you can instead go for 10 "increased fire damage jewels" and have up to (0.08*10+1=1.8) 80% increased fire damage.
01/17/2013 02:37 AMPosted by Daboluo
@OP, BLZ should hire you. Good post


Creating this systems is only possible because we as a community have a different perspective than those that work 6 years on the game. It is our duty as a community to give this feedback because we prioritize differently.

So there is no hiring needed as it influences my perspective in a negative way. ^^
Edited by Dwelve#1798 on 1/17/2013 7:36 AM PST
01/16/2013 10:53 PMPosted by Dwelve
- Items (Screen-DPS): The most important tab of progression, but also the one that has the biggest problem. Items that are found at the moment don´t have "character". People are not searching for new boots, for a new weapon or for a new ring. They look for an overall + in the DPS screen. Sometimes it feels like there is only one item-slot called the "DPS-Screen"-charslot. This was done better in Diablo 2 where people explicitly looked for white items to fill the weapon slot and then put a check on that slot and tried to improve the other ones.


Nice well thought out post I only need to comment on the above though. I am one that does not just think of the dps when comparing an item. I am also concerned about the amount of life the character has. A dps of 300k will not help a character if he only has 14k life and a 50 resist all.
Excellent posts. These are the sorts of systems I expected from a Diablo sequel. There just isn't any depth to the current item system. I'd love to see all of these implemented.

01/16/2013 10:54 PMPosted by Dwelve
The different quality levels influence the efficiency of the player´s crafting by altering the amount of items crafted. Normal materials always generate one item. Superior materials have a 20% chance to create one item, a 70% chance to create two items at once and a 10% chance to create 3 items. Now things get crazy: Magical items have a 50% chance to create 3 items, a 30% chance to create 4 items, a 15% chance to create 5 items, a 4% chance to create 7 items and a 1% chance to create 10(!!!) items at once. These items are rolled individually and the player should make sure he has free inventory space if he doesn´t want to turn into a pinata himself.


This is the only thing that seems out of place. I don't quite understand the reasoning for increasing the number of items crafted with the quality levels of crafting materials. If this is just to cut down on crafting time why not just remove the crafting timer? I'd rather see better quality ingredients have a chance of making items with bonus affixes or increase the quality of the affixes the item does roll with.
01/17/2013 08:43 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
Nice well thought out post I only need to comment on the above though. I am one that does not just think of the dps when comparing an item. I am also concerned about the amount of life the character has. A dps of 300k will not help a character if he only has 14k life and a 50 resist all.


While it was definitely exaggerated to say it is only the DPS tab that people look at it's not much different when you at defense into the equation. When you compare an upgrade you still just look at two numbers that you compare. You are not thinking "wow, awesome 13 poison resistance more" You just look at the numbers in the comparison screen. +1% more defense, "jay". The next upgrade is going to give you +350 dps and +0.2% more defense... that's another "jay" but it just isn't as exciting as it should be and it still comes down to just two or three numbers you progress in.
Oh I also wanted add how valuable a system like the elemental affinities would be. This would be among the first cases of a unified gear build that uniquely ties in with your character build itself. The D3 itemization is too disconnected from character skills and builds currently. They don't synergize like D2's system. Affinities would be one great way to tie the two together. It would provide players another viable way to build a character (gear+skills) that would be competitive with the norm builds of today. It's disappointing that the few skill bonus items in the game are as weak as they are as they had the potential to integrate skill+item synergy. They simply chose to make them insignificantly weak so as to be irrelevant to most.
01/17/2013 09:19 AMPosted by steveman0
This is the only thing that seems out of place. I don't quite understand the reasoning for increasing the number of items crafted with the quality levels of crafting materials. If this is just to cut down on crafting time why not just remove the crafting timer? I'd rather see better quality ingredients have a chance of making items with bonus affixes or increase the quality of the affixes the item does roll with.


It is very hard to allow players to influence the quality of items they craft and still make lower quality crafts worth while. If you start crafting and the items promise you a higher quality it is very unlikely that you will feel rewarded for using those. Instead you would just feel punished for using the lower quality materials.

But yeah this is system is a little vague. Maybe decrease the quality types of crafting materials to just two instead of three.

The basic idea was to give the crafter the "wow!" once in a while when he crafts without making it a one way ticket. If you just influence the quality it's the same "item is better = jay" or "item is equal or worse = nay" moment you have on every identify of a rare item. But if you dedicate to one recipe and all of a sudden you get 7! or even 10! items you can check it adds to this pinata feeling that you want to have in a diablo game. Even if the items aren't neccessarily upgrades you can still go "oh !@#$" when your inventory was full and 8 of the crafted items fall to the ground. It's supposed to be a flavour tool ^.^
Edited by Dwelve#1798 on 1/17/2013 10:01 AM PST
TL;DR, as long as you make the affixes having to compete with current affixes, its kind of dull the same way.

you need something that is build changing affixes.

eg: "double the range of channelled spells"
"weapon throw now pierces rocks and walls"
"teleport cd is reduced 1"
"each time you make an attack you have a 100% chance of recovering 50% of spirit once every second, you gain spirit from attacking the air"
"increase the duration of meteor to 30 seconds"
"increase the range of threaten shout to 80 yd radius"
"gloom duration is now permanent until you get hit, then it expires in 5 seconds"
"grenades now hit in a hemisphere around you."
"wave of force no longer has a cd, instead, it consumes 5% of your life when used"


This. This is what I thought D3 was going to be like.
To those that are to lazy to read the article:

An example of an imbue:

9. Example:
Imbue of refraction:
- Parts drop in all areas that have small runner type monsters.
- Can imbue Belts, Amulets
- 3 Parts
- 1-3 Pickup Radius, 4-14 dexterity (Min: 3 PR, 12 Dex; Max: 9 PR, 42 Dex)
- Completion bonus: Deflection: 1%-5% chance to deflect incoming damage (deflect = you take no damage) and deal 20%-60% of its damage to all enemies within your pickupradius.
Edited by Dwelve#1798 on 1/17/2013 10:03 AM PST
01/17/2013 09:49 AMPosted by Dwelve
This is the only thing that seems out of place. I don't quite understand the reasoning for increasing the number of items crafted with the quality levels of crafting materials. If this is just to cut down on crafting time why not just remove the crafting timer? I'd rather see better quality ingredients have a chance of making items with bonus affixes or increase the quality of the affixes the item does roll with.


It is very hard to allow players to influence the quality of items they craft and still make lower quality crafts worth while. If you start crafting and the items promise you a higher quality it is very unlikely that you will feel rewarded for using those. Instead you would just feel punished for using the lower quality materials.

But yeah this is system is a little vague. Maybe decrease the quality types of crafting materials to just two instead of three.

The basic idea was to give the crafter the "wow!" once in a while when he crafts without making it a one way ticket. If you just influence the quality it's the same "item is better = jay" or "item is equal or worse = nay" moment you have on every identify of a rare item. But if you dedicate to one recipe and all of a sudden you get 7! or even 10! items you can check it adds to this pinata feeling that you want to have in a diablo game. Even if the items aren't neccessarily upgrades you can still go "oh !@#$" when your inventory was full and 8 of the crafted items fell to the ground. It's supposed to be a flavour tool ^.^


I guess I can see that point. Personally though I'd like to see a return to something akin to D2's crafting system. (People still remember that D2 had crafted items right?) That system worked really well and would have been a great place to begin to D3. The system still incorporated RNG but it gave the player enough control to get something that had a reasonable chance of being useful if not amazing. It also scaled quite well with character level so the system was useful throughout the entire character progression.

Ultimately the late game needs unique crafting recipes with special effects like you listed but the base system itself still needs a greater measure of control. The costs associated with crafting the the incredible reliance on RNG is just too high. Even if you do get 10 items from a craft would you be very happy that your high end mats were wasted when you find that not one of the 10 items has remotely the affix combination you were looking for? I think it would lead to the same disappointment many face with the current system. The loot pinata is only exciting when you find useful items at a decent rate.
very well done..i like the variety added to the jewel crafting system.. I'm sure how this would fit in but one of my favorite features of D2 was the ability to pic up a skill or two from another class. I would love for this to make a come back in some shape or form. A Bard with the ability to summon a Big Stinky would be bad-A$$
I really like a lot of your ideas...the imbue concept is pretty cool. There are lots of times where I have a piece of gear that is very close to being an upgrade, and would have plenty of incentive to push it over the top via something like the imbue system.

01/17/2013 02:22 AMPosted by Dwelve
An item that shows two green numbers is better than one that shows no green numbers at the comarison screen.

I disagree with this. I regularly take reasonable hits to my DPS, armor, and/or vitality (well, never all three, but often one or some combo of two) in favor of various things. Most commonly, I trade off between DPS and vitality and/or armor. If I'm killing too slowly and dying as a result (because demons survive long enough to wear me down), I'll up DPS at the expense of usually vitality, sometimes armor. If I'm being one-shot (or close) too often, I go in the opposite direction.

I will also sometimes drop DPS and/or vit and/or armor in order to gain some other property, most notably MF or All Resist.

All that said, I play solo a lot (no tanks to hold enemies at bay) and exclusively use items I acquire in game (it's virtually impossible to put my DPS through the roof). So, an appreciable degree of stat balance really is a must.
I guess I can see that point. Personally though I'd like to see a return to something akin to D2's crafting system. (People still remember that D2 had crafted items right?) That system worked really well and would have been a great place to begin to D3. The system still incorporated RNG but it gave the player enough control to get something that had a reasonable chance of being useful if not amazing. It also scaled quite well with character level so the system was useful throughout the entire character progression.Ultimately the late game needs unique crafting recipes with special effects like you listed but the base system itself still needs a greater measure of control. The costs associated with crafting the the incredible reliance on RNG is just too high. Even if you do get 10 items from a craft would you be very happy that your high end mats were wasted when you find that not one of the 10 items has remotely the affix combination you were looking for? I think it would lead to the same disappointment many face with the current system. The loot pinata is only exciting when you find useful items at a decent rate.


Hmm the upgrade vs. nonupgrade is a huge problem of every progression system. But yeah every time you do not find an upgrade it IS a letdown. However, people nowadays are very used to the auction house and therefore think it's sooo hard to find upgrades at all. I play selffound only and i can still find an item upgrade or sidegrade on every run (because my gear sucks!). As i have mentioned the best way to combat this problem of progression is to give the player as many paths to walk on simultaneously as possible. You CAN dedicate yourself to craft thousands of the same item but the upgrades have to be almost trivial at some point. The last "reasonable" upgrade should come after about 100 crafts:
1st craft-> upgrade
next 4 items -> bleh
5th item -> upgrade
12th item -> upgrade
23th, 41th, 68th, 99th, 155th, 290th, 500th item -> upgrade
Now the great thing about parallel progression is that once you have the third upgrade you can just say "well that's enough stats on the crimson chest" and continue to blast your mats into the other crimson crafts or start ember crafts.

You just have to give the player equal choices that really feel like a change.

And RNG CAN be much more rewarding if you don't allow the players to spam the AH with their items.
01/17/2013 10:16 AMPosted by Dwelve
However, people nowadays are very used to the auction house and therefore think it's sooo hard to find upgrades at all. I play selffound only and i can still find an item upgrade or sidegrade on every run (because my gear sucks!).

Definitely agree with this, and as I said, I also exclusively use gear found in game. IMO d3 isn't appreciably better or worse than d2 as far as drop rates, the auction house has just seriously warped reality.

Referring back to how I make gear choices, though, it will be interesting to see how/if unlocking NV (just hit lvl60 for the first time last night) will change this. Will I still sacrifice stats to equip MF gear, or will I keep stats up so I can get to the next elite faster and retain 5 stacks?
Edited by Ickyfoot#1434 on 1/17/2013 10:26 AM PST
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