Diablo® III

How to Make Loot Fun - Potential of D3

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Have more upgrades occur.
Oh and I posted my opinion on jewels awhile back if you are interested.
This will be an anology to how addictive drug work in the brain. In a part of the brain called the nucleus accumbens (spelling not sure) I belive this part of the brains deals with emotions or feelings or a smaller part (I'm a HS student interested in psychopharmacology so I know about neurotransmitters more than the brain it's self.) Now to get to the chase the main NT associated with motivation is dopamine, if you've had Adderall you can certainly testify to this. Dopamine is released because of anticipation of reward. For one I've almost developed an addiction because one time I was doing my homework I took an extra Adderral (amphetamine more potent stimulant than !@#$%^- and I'm serious) never did this before and got an incredible high (injected morphine didn't compare, because adderral releases gigantic amounts of dopamine in abnormal doses so my brain kept wanting it after that knowing how rewarded I felt and amazing) so if people get nice items, quite often, and GG items every once in a while (100-1000) elite packs they will feel rewarded enough to feel the want and sometimes the need because they're hooked on it like a drug. If something feels good you're motivated to get that feeling again especially if you feel like you're progressing towars a goal, also like brain develops tolerance to drugs you develop tolerance to doing the same thing again and again.

TLDW: Rewarding loot causes people to get addicted to said game because good loot releases dopamine in the same way that most addictive drugs cause addiction through a mechanism that increases dopamine in some way.
01/30/2013 03:36 PMPosted by Wolverine
Oh and I posted my opinion on jewels awhile back if you are interested.


Do you mean that?

I also disagree that they should be separate from gem sockets. What's the point? If you want to put a gem in, that's fine. Gems are supposed to be the steady guys - the ones whose stats aren't great, but they never change. Jewels are just to mix things up.But other than that, pretty good concepts n stuff.


I was more interested in what you think about making blues or whites potentially the best items if socketed with perfect jewels and about the different types of jewels and their affixes.

But yeah on that gemsocket issue...
The main reason i want it to be different is because it HAS potential to be fun. Namely when you roll up to three sockets for just one affix. The slots where it can roll just one gem are rather boring but chests, pants and helmets are quite unique and add a lot. Furthermore gems allow for permanent progression because you can always keep upgrading them (unless you buy thme straight from the auction house).

If you add jewels and let them compete with gems you trivialize one or the other. If you find a few good jewels you will never need gems. However, if you seperate jewel and gemslots you can still have this fun "gemaffix" which allows for up to 3 gems AND still allow players to have strong jewels following it up.
Jewels can be much more interesting if they compete with an affix instead of a gemslot.
Good read ..

And while a lot of this would have been fun to have in D3 (and in some ways innovative) .. it is pretty obvious that is what a lot of us who bought D3 WANTED (something to improve upon the customization found in D2, Torchlight and Titan Quest) ... the designers wanted something different.

A very SIMPLE itemization system ... with very little (if any) character customization .. so everyone is equally drawn to the AH. (I also suspect that they wanted little customization because they wanted balanced PVP (whoops)).

How much code would it have really taken to do any what you suggested? Even something simple as adding a new gem type or two? They could probably do it in a patch .. Yet they seem more focused on giving us these MMO-like carrots to spend hours hunting down for a RANDOM chance at a slight improvement.

No feel of character progression at all unless you do AH shopping .. which they want.
01/31/2013 09:57 AMPosted by LastCrusader
No feel of character progression at all unless you do AH shopping .. which they want.


Funny thing... 9 out of 10 people that do not use the auction house at all are having much more fun with the game. I guess Blizzard even failed at forcing you to use the auction house!
01/31/2013 10:04 AMPosted by Dwelve
No feel of character progression at all unless you do AH shopping .. which they want.


Funny thing... 9 out of 10 people that do not use the auction house at all are having much more fun with the game. I guess Blizzard even failed at forcing you to use the auction house!


Agreed . my group didn't use the AH until we finished Inferno (right before they made MP) .. it was pretty fun .. just trading gear with each other .. but once we decided to see what we could find on the AH it was crazy how cheaply we could find upgrades to what we thought was good "found" gear ...

Here we go rarely finding a set or legendary item and they were thousands of the SAME item on the AH .. boy they don't seem so "rare" or "legendary" then do they?

Really I blame the "scale" of the level 60 gear more than the AH itself .. having a level 60 weapon that can do 200 DPS or 1200 DPS is too big of a range .. add in the stacking of critical chance and damage .. the AH just lets you shop for the perfect comboes of gear.
01/31/2013 02:06 PMPosted by LastCrusader
Really I blame the "scale" of the level 60 gear more than the AH itself .. having a level 60 weapon that can do 200 DPS or 1200 DPS is too big of a range .. add in the stacking of critical chance and damage .. the AH just lets you shop for the perfect comboes of gear.


Weird thing is... This exponential scaling of damage and defense was supposed to allow players to play without using the AH. Because the probability of finding an upgrade decreases that fast and the damage scales so hard it was intended that these two cancel each other out. The better your gear gets the tinier the upgrades you find get, but because these tiny upgrades scale much better than the previous ones you could progress in a somewhat linear way.
01/16/2013 10:53 PMPosted by Dwelve
The carrot on a stick is the most simplified model of motivation through anticipation of a reward. Biggest problem of this analogy is the lack of showing possibilities how to increase the hunger of the "carrot-chaser". Many Diablo players i have talked to feel the carrot they are chasing right now is either to hard to catch or does not satisfy enough when caught. The most simple way to address this issue is to simply add more carrots to the equation. But let´s not leave it at carrots, we want apples, hot dogs and German "Wurst" tingling in front of our eyes. Adding more and more motivators has the benefit that we can allow the chaser to more often catch something he was chasing for, but even more importantly to give him "Wurst" while he was chasing the apple. Convincing us to get things we didn´t even know we are hungry for is such a diabolic process that simply confuses us and as soon as we start chasing every stick and being rewarded with even the smallest forms of rewards most players will stick to chasing it. So let´s add more carrots via ...


Very nice post OP, and this part is something that I have been feeling for awhile now. I want more things to find, and at this junction, there is nothing other than finding a piece of gear with a little more main stat, or a little more crit damage/crit chance. The thing that kept me playing D2 for so long was all the different things I could find along the way. I may have done 20 Ancient Tunnel runs without finding that Griffons I was looking for, but I would find a 7% magic find small charm or a +1 to lightning skills grand charm. I may have found an ethereal Berserker axe to put in the Horadric cube to roll the socket recipe on or a jewel with attack speed and fire damage. I would have found at least 1 decently high rune in those 20 AT runs as well, but there were other things that gave me that little spark to keep going other than the main thing I was looking for.

I have played everyday since launch, and I am still enjoying the game, but Diablo has always been about the item hunt. The item hunt is my end game, and it was in D2 as well. The first time I found a Harlequin Crest, my wife thought I had finally lost my marbles, but I still liked finding them, and it was always cool to find a Shako or Arachnid mesh. I just cant understand why it would be so hard to add a few things for us to find. The Talisman for charms was a great idea I thought, and something I thought would be in the game for sure. Maybe this is something that will come in the expansion, but I think it would be a nice gesture to add it to the game in the near future. The concept of charms and somewhere specific to place them would not add any difficulty to the game, and anybody that is even remotely able to comprehend the ARPG genre could understand.
Wow! Great work OP! I loved the Talisman-Rune system.

So now, to be realistic, here's what's going to happen:

1. Blizzard will read, see no benefit to the RMAH, and you won't even get a "kewl dude!" reply from a blue.

2. Path of Exile devs will read, take these ideas, and implement. (hey, it's not stealing if they leave it on the curb as trash)

Bottom Line: I would love to see a lot of this implemented, and when I finally take the time to download PoE I'm hoping that I see them there.
01/31/2013 03:37 PMPosted by Duffman
1. Blizzard will read, see no benefit to the RMAH, and you won't even get a "kewl dude!" reply from a blue.


If it brings back a lot of players back Blizzard is going to benefit even in the RMAH. I'm not saying this is their intention (as i have never seen that proven). Keeping costumers happy is the main goal, the monetary benefits come along with it.
I will also guarantee that no blue will ever reply to this thread.

Around the time the game came out, and since then, until quitting, many thoughtful players posted many good threads here on itemization and suggestions for improvements to benefit more varied and interesting builds. Sadly, each and every one of those threads never ONCE garnered a blue response.

They actively ignore these types of threads and only post in the threads with feature slow-pitch questions, outright flame-bait posts, or joke threads (and not the irony-laden insightful design criticism one, either).

Edit: Hahahaha, I see upon liking the OP, that he has been reported. What a surprise on D3 forums.
Edited by Tremis#1307 on 1/31/2013 4:35 PM PST
Interesting take on it by "chucknorris" lol

Imagine D3 as a drug..

How likely are you to keep smoking weed if it did absolutely nothing for you... had no benefits other than making your wallet lighter..

How likely are people going to play D3 or any video game for that matter if they don't feel rewarded
I will also guarantee that no blue will ever reply to this thread. Around the time the game came out, and since then, until quitting, many thoughtful players posted many good threads here on itemization and suggestions for improvements to benefit more varied and interesting builds. Sadly, each and every one of those threads never ONCE garnered a blue response. They actively ignore these types of threads and only post in the threads with feature slow-pitch questions, outright flame-bait posts, or joke threads (and not the irony-laden insightful design criticism one, either).Edit: Hahahaha, I see upon liking the OP, that he has been reported. What a surprise on D3 forums.


So how is a blue supposed to respond to this? Is he supposed to say "great idea, we'll consider it" ?
If he does so and internal tests conclude that changes need to be made, people will start creating another 200 threads called "they won't give us what they promised, derp derp".

The biggest thing you have to consider: If changes are not implemented then there is a reason for it. Either they are to complex or they don't fit with the design philosphy or they are to hard to integrate.

I am posting this to get feedback FROM YOU. I want to see your perspectives on this, because quite frankly i am just listing all these ideas i would like to have for MYSELF. Different perspectives may reveal what downsides these ideas have.

How can you see that i was banned btw?

Interesting take on it by "chucknorris" lolImagine D3 as a drug..How likely are you to keep smoking weed if it did absolutely nothing for you... had no benefits other than making your wallet lighter..How likely are people going to play D3 or any video game for that matter if they don't feel rewarded


Actually the AH is very much like a drug. Once you started using it yuo get a small high because you buy loot that shouldn't have dropped for you yet. But because you bought such high quality loot it decreases your chance of finding new upgrades and therefore you feel forced to buy the next upgrades on the AH again, just so you can feel that small high for a moment. And this decreases your chance of finding loot even further... and so on.
01/31/2013 05:03 PMPosted by Dwelve
So how is a blue supposed to respond to this? Is he supposed to say "great idea, we'll consider it" ?


Like I said, they won't. I really sympathize with you, honestly. I've just been there and done that already. It sucks I know.
01/31/2013 06:36 PMPosted by Tremis
Like I said, they won't. I really sympathize with you, honestly. I've just been there and done that already. It sucks I know.


I am saying a blue should not respond to these kind of threads. It would be a lose lose situation for both sides!

If the ideas you propose are great and have no downsides then of course they will implement it. If you see an idea on this forum not being implemented then it's obviously because it has a downside.
Edited by Dwelve#1798 on 2/1/2013 2:44 AM PST
They could respond by saying that they are looking into improving itemization in a way that would open up new builds or give any detail on what they are doing to improve it. So far, they have not.
02/01/2013 03:20 AMPosted by Tremis
They could respond by saying that they are looking into improving itemization in a way that would open up new builds or give any detail on what they are doing to improve it. So far, they have not.


Ok, i'll do it for them: They ARE looking into improving itemization in a way that does open up new builds but they don't like giving details before the stuff is finalized.

Ok, now i have told you that. So what happens now?
Btw, having affixes like those in the imbue and crafting section allows for really unique legendaries.

For example:
- lvl 40 gloves that increase the regeneration of the bloodshield by 100%
- lvl 58 weapon with low dps but fast attack speed that quadrouples the damage from empathy
- lowlvl helmet that reduces the blockchance by 9%
- lowlvl belt that increases the duration of armorconversion by 2 seconds
- shield that increases the damage from deflection by 10 times
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