Diablo® III

How to Make Loot Fun - Potential of D3

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02/01/2013 03:51 AMPosted by Dwelve
Ok, now i have told you that. So what happens now?


1. We very likely wait until hell freezes over.

2. The supposed changes actually never end up doing what was promised because they never actually committed to specifics.

But, given that their track record is to never comment in these threads at all, neither of those will ever happen.

About the post above: Awesome ideas! In a long line of many previous ones, which, because Blizzard greedily designed the game and drops around the AH, we will never see.

They are too worried about balancing the AH-driven economy long-term in a non-ladder reset environment (hence the massive nerfs to IAS, etc that happened in the first bunch of patches) that they will not make any changes that would be too difficult for them to predict.

That is one reason why there are no viable ways to enhance specific skills. No, skill boosting affixes DO NOT count.

Why? If you actually check how much you can theoretically stack skill boosting affixes, you'll find out that they can only appear on specific item slots. Most can only be found on 1-2 items types, meaning that you can never reasonably buff a specific skill to make another type of affix (i.e. THE BIG 6) not worthwhile instead.

Thus, specific item builds that focus on powering up a handful of your 6 skill selections DO NOT REASONABLY EXIST. You can't stack them enough, which was a conscious design decision-based on worrying about game balance stemming from the AH-driven economy and ultimately, $$$$.

Someone on the dev team also thought it would be a great idea to scale every skill based on weapon damage alone. No other stat or affix, save the measly ones that I just mentioned that are essentially useless and don't even cover all skills (only attack based ones). Remember when there were skill runes? They made a BS excuse to cut them based on limitations to the database and inventory size. The real reason was that they wanted to cut out a certain amount of unknowable balance problems that would have resulted. Did it even end up working?? No, there are still massively overpowered builds that exist anyway, so that was completely useless. Instead of a whole bunch of overpowered builds though, we instead have a small, boring handful of them.

Also, remember when they decided to make it so that breakables would stop dropping items? Why did they do that you ask? To protect the almighty AH and their profits. People were designing specific character builds to exploit running to destroy breakables and that interfered with their precious AH.

No amount of foresight was demonstrated by this dev team in the was they approached designing D3, and they continually fail at it. Sorry for the rant. You can tell how passionate I am about this game and how much hope I had for it.
02/01/2013 02:37 PMPosted by Tremis
Also, remember when they decided to make it so that breakables would stop dropping items? Why did they do that you ask? To protect the almighty AH and their profits. People were designing specific character builds to exploit running to destroy breakables and that interfered with their precious AH.


So how did that conversation go? Jay runs angry into the office yelling "I want more money!! Why am i not making more moneyß???!" As he slaps one of the coworkers and spits on another one of them interfers saying "Jay... Jay, calm down, we can remove the item drops from breakable objects". Jay Wilson's eyes begin to shine and the frustration leaves his body. "Jay is pleased." He finally says as he turns around and leaves the office...

But in all honesty, if you really believe MORE MONEY MORE MONEY is the reason why they do most of their decisions you will have to acknowledge that your opinion holds no value in this conversation.

Furthermore, if you do not enjoy such a theorycrafting process and think its main purpose is to "force Blizzard to obey" you will have to acknowledge that your opinion holds no value in this conversation.

But if you want to know the cold truth about the AH... I can tell you:
Something like this has NEVER been done before, not in the real world, not in the video game world. It was an experiment and its ultimate goal was to appeal to costumers. Believe it or not but happy costumers are the highest priority of every succesful business.
The AH was designed to make YOU happy, if it suceeded or not is another issue.
02/01/2013 06:14 PMPosted by Dwelve
But in all honesty, if you really believe MORE MONEY MORE MONEY is the reason why they do most of their decisions you will have to acknowledge that your opinion holds no value in this conversation.


Well, sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree then.

It was either all related to designing the game around the AH (i.e. money) or they are just plain terrible at development and game design. Pick one, or offer a better explanation please. I'm all ears.

They took a series defined by great loot, and turned it into the opposite of that.
02/01/2013 06:14 PMPosted by Dwelve
Believe it or not but happy costumers are the highest priority of every succesful business.


And how many people left playing this in a few months? A ton of previously happy customers. If you don't agree that this game has been continually bleeding players, then I really don't know what to say to you. PoE has had a bigger viewership on twitch for a while now as well and many high profile proponents of the game left, even though they were making money off of youtube from it. Read up on comments by Brother Laz if you want to hear more about why D3's itemization is bad.

I've said my part many times in this forums. If you like the game because the AH is an experiment, good for you. Keep playing, I have no problems. I'm happy someone enjoys D3, honestly. It just wasn't made for Diablo fans or fans of loot-based games. They should have known how the AH would change this. Everyone saw it coming a mile away.
02/01/2013 07:33 PMPosted by Tremis
And how many people left playing this in a few months? A ton of previously happy customers. If you don't agree that this game has been continually bleeding players, then I really don't know what to say to you. PoE has had a bigger viewership on twitch for a while now as well and many high profile proponents of the game left, even though they were making money off of youtube from it. Read up on comments by Brother Laz if you want to hear more about why D3's itemization is bad.


How can they bleed players? I don't see any DLCs i don't see any NON ACCOUTNBOUND items. How the hell am i being milked?
Kungen has already gone back to playing D3 (I honestly don't see how people can play that hardcore at the current stage of the game) and people weren't even willing to invest 10€ for this great piece of masterwork called PoE. They had to make it free so people start playing it.

And don't get me started on the whole Brothe Laz thing. He is making 9 out of 10 of his decisions on a mood base. I talked to him dozens of times and even he is convinced how narrowminded and easy implementable his "caps caps caps" system is and how hard it is to create a "free" statsystem like D3 has. Laz isn't half as intelligent as people make him to be.

02/01/2013 07:33 PMPosted by Tremis
I've said my part many times in this forums. If you like the game because the AH is an experiment, good for you. Keep playing, I have no problems. I'm happy someone enjoys D3, honestly. It just wasn't made for Diablo fans or fans of loot-based games. They should have known how the AH would change this. Everyone saw it coming a mile away.


I haven't ever used the AH, i can not comprehend how anybody can buy items and skip content in a game where the entire content consists of finding gear. I actuall HATE the AH it's the most limiting factor of the game. But i see where Blizzard came from and what their idea was and i can not blame them for trying this experiment.
02/01/2013 07:49 PMPosted by Dwelve
How can they bleed players? I don't see any DLCs i don't see any NON ACCOUTNBOUND items.


Okay, I have no idea what you are talking about, sorry, man. I don't understand the words that you are writing anymore. What are you even responding to? Me? DLCs and bleeding players? What?? D3 bled a ton of players. It's a fact of the universe. They built a game with boring items. There is no debate, man! None!

And regarding Brother Laz, you don't have to be a genius to comment on why D3's itemization is poor. I agree he is not a genius. Evidence of one player who went back to D3 out of the many high profile players does not convince me of anything either, sorry.

I'm completely confused, no troll intended. I'm done arguing with you, because I don't think you know what I'm saying.

Good luck with D3. I seriously hope it gets better, but it's just not happening right now. Jay quitting/being fired was a good step, but until I see concrete proof that they are trying to fix the game's itemization, I'm not coming back. A blue response in this great suggestion thread would be more than enough to give me hope, but alas, no response will happen. I'd bet money on it.

Edit: Thanks though for the great suggestions in the OP. I wish you well in your mission. I sincerely hope Blizz pays attention.
Edited by Tremis#1307 on 2/1/2013 8:50 PM PST
Some people have too much time in their hands.
02/01/2013 08:00 PMPosted by Tremis
Okay, I have no idea what you are talking about, sorry, man. I don't understand the words that you are writing anymore. What are you even responding to? Me? DLCs and bleeding players? What?? D3 bled a ton of players. It's a fact of the universe. They built a game with boring items. There is no debate, man! None!


Play selffound and see how "boring" items are. As i have stated. The game was tested without the AH so it should be played without it.

02/01/2013 08:00 PMPosted by Tremis
I'm completely confused, no troll intended. I'm done arguing with you, because I don't think you know what I'm saying.


They don't go for cashgrab. If they went for cashgrab they would release "new crafting materials" DLC and sell elite items on the RMAH. If they went for cashgrab the new items they introduce wouldn't be bound on account but tradable in the RMAH. Besides ... do you even know what they get per item sold in RMAH? Go and try to make a business out of that.

02/01/2013 08:00 PMPosted by Tremis
Edit: Thanks though for the great suggestions in the OP. I wish you well in your mission. I sincerely hope Blizz pays attention.


The thing that needs the most improvement in this game is the community. And Blizzard can't do anything about that.
I want the 1k views!
02/01/2013 06:14 PMPosted by Dwelve
So how did that conversation go? Jay runs angry into the office yelling "I want more money!! Why am i not making more moneyß???!" As he slaps one of the coworkers and spits on another one of them interfers saying "Jay... Jay, calm down, we can remove the item drops from breakable objects". Jay Wilson's eyes begin to shine and the frustration leaves his body. "Jay is pleased." He finally says as he turns around and leaves the office...


lmao.

But really, I don't understand what you are arguing. First you and Tremis had a pointless argument about blues... Then he made some points against the game. Instead of defending the game, you are defending Blizzard. Which confuses me, because that guy really didn't attack Blizzard.

Dwelve, You cannot deny that itemization is poo in DIablo 3.

If you haven't seen this, you must be living under a rock.

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/9989/infographiclarge.png

And I wonder why the community is not appreciative enough of Blizzard?
1. The game was released unfinished and did not meet many people's expectations.
2. The community system within the game is poor. There pretty much is no community in the game!

If this patch doesn't fix the game, it's time for me to worry about other things.
02/03/2013 02:38 PMPosted by Wolverine
But really, I don't understand what you are arguing. First you and Tremis had a pointless argument about blues... Then he made some points against the game. Instead of defending the game, you are defending Blizzard. Which confuses me, because that guy really didn't attack Blizzard.


I am not here to defend anybody. He is simply being irrational in claiming Blizzard is money hungry and says there is a correlation to the drops.

If you say it was a huge !@#$up to introduce a GAH then i won't disagree, because it is true. But going the usual "derp derp something's wrong, let's point fingers and make up %^-*" is nothing i will ever approve of.

Dwelve, You cannot deny that itemization is poo in DIablo 3.If you haven't seen this, you must be living under a rock.http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/9989/infographiclarge.png


I created a thread called "how to make loot fun", what does that tell you? Diablo 3s itemization is a lot weaker than it could be, but in no ways is it horribly broken. People keep mentioning that !@#$pile of D2 and claim how perfect it was when it had HORRIBLE flaws. Not one person goes back playing it, they just keep yelling how awesome it was. I advise you... go back and play Diablo 2. Without dupes and without bots and see how (not) brilliant it is. You will be surprised.
Meanwhile the same people go shopping in the AH the second they hit lvl 60 and then they are surprised they aren't finding any loot themselves. Such irrational bull%^-* is what i have to keep reading on the forums.

And I wonder why the community is not appreciative enough of Blizzard?1. The game was released unfinished and did not meet many people's expectations.


Thanks for giving me another opportunity to rant at peoples' stupidity. How was the game unfinished? Can please anybody explain to me how the game was incomplete? I could complete the entire game without finding a single bug. So where was the game unfinished? I simply do not understand that claim.

02/03/2013 02:38 PMPosted by Wolverine
2. The community system within the game is poor. There pretty much is no community in the game!


B.net is not nearly as good as it should be. Agreed. But you say this is a reason for the community to go fullretard mode and vocalize even the most offensive thoughts? Disagreed.

02/03/2013 02:38 PMPosted by Wolverine
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/9989/infographiclarge.png


Just looking at this strip makes me shake my head. Is that what people want? Finding gloves at lvl 40 and NEVER ever being able to upgrade that slot again? They want mages and witchdoctors to own MP3 without any gear because their skills don't scale with anything just like in D2. They want every character to look the same after they googled the current fotm build (thanks for the legendaries that are used by every character now... gj "community).
02/03/2013 03:38 PMPosted by Dwelve
Finding gloves at lvl 40 and NEVER ever being able to upgrade that slot again?

Are you trying to be ignorant? Or do you just want to keep the thread alive? Because you totally dodged the meaning of the thread.

How was the game unfinished? The story... is crap. Atmosphere is crap. No diversity. Terrible itemization. I didn't say that there were bugs. Seriously, why do you twist my words like that?

I think I am mostly upset because they kind of lied to me. I thought I was getting a different game. It doesn't even feel like Diablo.

I have been playing Diablo 2, recently. There is actually a good difficulty curve! I like it. Items are cool and satisfying, and I love leveling up.

Anyway, I'm done here. I gave you some constructive criticism, so use it.
Dwelve: wow you have played the forums more then you played the game. You played for maybe ten days and that it.
Are you trying to be ignorant? Or do you just want to keep the thread alive? Because you totally dodged the meaning of the thread.How was the game unfinished? The story... is crap. Atmosphere is crap. No diversity. Terrible itemization. I didn't say that there were bugs. Seriously, why do you twist my words like that?I think I am mostly upset because they kind of lied to me. I thought I was getting a different game. It doesn't even feel like Diablo.I have been playing Diablo 2, recently. There is actually a good difficulty curve! I like it. Items are cool and satisfying, and I love leveling up.Anyway, I'm done here. I gave you some constructive criticism, so use it.


Yeah sorry i forgot this is the only forum where it's bad to talk positive about the game. It seems odd since this is a D3 forum but this shouldn't matter, right?

Criticism like "Old times were better" or criticism like "it changed so i don't like it" is not something i care about. Criticism like "Blizzard wants money and killed our babies" is something that should be met with resistance. If Tremis is going to less likely to post such nonsense in my thread or in this forum then i can gladly say my words served their purpose. After all, we are nerds and we HATE any form of resistance.

Same thing goes to your comicstrip claiming even the weirdest and unintuitive and horrible designchoices are something that developers should waste time on. Just imagine Blizzard decides to go that route?! THAT would be a huge stepback in itemization.

02/03/2013 06:28 PMPosted by Wolverine
How was the game unfinished? The story... is crap. Atmosphere is crap. No diversity. Terrible itemization. I didn't say that there were bugs. Seriously, why do you twist my words like that?


Oh, so the definition of a game being unfinished is YOU not liking it? Now that's interesting. I hate shooters so every shooter released in the last 10 years was unfinished. Nice to know. When and how do i get my money back for those unfinished products?

Atmosphere is crap? Yeah i am sure people saw a lot of the atmosphere when they rushed through everything in their first 20 hours.

02/03/2013 06:28 PMPosted by Wolverine
Anyway, I'm done here. I gave you some constructive criticism, so use it.


If you don't enjoy the discussion or people disagreeing with you don't join discussions.
02/03/2013 06:57 PMPosted by AaronSlow
Dwelve: wow you have played the forums more then you played the game. You played for maybe ten days and that it.


Didn't get an achievement though :(
Bump!
This will be the last bump befor a blue closes this thread :( I hope at least one person reads this and can change my perspective at least a little on this subject.
New jewel affix:

+ Adds 3 - 20 Max damage for every 10% of life missing.
Some interesting suggestions. I hope some one at blizzard takes them too hart. I para leveled 3 different character and at this point it is no longer fun for me to play anymore. The game gets better with each update. But at this point I think they need to radically make the loot that drops better or add an identify all button soon. I think I am going to hold out for one.
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