Diablo® III

Phat's budget Double Nado and gear reference

You're very right about permawrath being inconsistent! It gets quite annoying at times.

I'm not going to be seriously into PvP, if I do PvP it will be on-off just to take a break from Act3 Alkaizer runs. Focus will be PvE until the day comes where my gear is good enough to farm MP7 effectively :)

Currently I have 90million gold, but if some items sell on the AH then i could have 2-3x that amount soon.
OK I think I am ready to poke my nose into this thread as more than a lurker, and ask for real advice now that I have managed to spend some gold in the (hopefully) right direction.

What say you, Phat, (or anyone else with constructive advice to offer)? Where should I go from where I sit now? (And what is the consensus on my gloves, which I got for an absolute steal compared to the other trifectas on the AH)? I am not looking to farm 7 or 8 with my barb, not specifically- he hasnt even beaten inferno yet, and I am working that dilligently, but when he does I would like to farm him at (probably) 5 or 6, whichever gives me the best bang for the buck, so to speak.

I am sitting at 2.81 right now but with an ammy swap I can drop 3% IAS for a bunch of CC
D and a little CC... liking the AS right now though. Still, except for elite and champ packs, it means little while leveling, since no matter how I work it I have a very hard time keeping fury, and certainly no permawrath.

So, ignoring all that and just supposing I was in farm mode now, where could/should there be improvements?
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You're very right about permawrath being inconsistent! It gets quite annoying at times.

I'm not going to be seriously into PvP, if I do PvP it will be on-off just to take a break from Act3 Alkaizer runs. Focus will be PvE until the day comes where my gear is good enough to farm MP7 effectively :)

Currently I have 90million gold, but if some items sell on the AH then i could have 2-3x that amount soon.


Looking at your gear again, you have to decide if you want to give up the hellfire or the ik helm. If you want to hang on to these 2 pieces, you should consider just getting a dagger OH since you wont need a 4th IAS slot to hit 2.5aps.

How much you spend on this OH will depend on whether you want to eventually go for 2.5aps on both weapons. The least expensive 4th slot of IAS comes from helm, innas, WH, trifecta ammy, in that order.

Something to also consider is that EF OH with str/socket/crit are rising in price. It's nearly impossible to find one like mine for any under 60m. I think it makes more sense to go for LS EF since those are still relatively inexpensive. This would also free up your belt since you could get the requisite 2 slots of LS from OH and passive.

WRT hellfire, it might also be wise to think ahead and plan to put that SOJ you have. IMO an SOJ is better than a crappy hellfire, even if you lose the exp bonus. I leveled from 60s to 100 with an SOJ since it made the runs so much faster. I wasn't interested in max exp/hr.
Almost 300 million gold to spend on upgrades now, but as you mentioned there's a fair bit of tinkering to be done with my gear in order to bring it to a good place for fast runs of MP4 and above.

Gonna be farming hellfire rings to hopefully get a decent roll, but if RNG does no favors then I'd replace it with the SoJ (which would put me fully buffed at 757k tDPS / 969k vs elites but drop my effective health to 456k)

tbh I'm not quite sure what bracket/level of weapons to aim for, since prices escalate pretty drastically at certain points and i'm wary of overspending on weapons.

e.g. for the LS EF :
800+ dps - between 50-100mil <<< good enough for quick MP7 runs/not?
900+ dps - around 100-150mil
1k dps - around 300mil and above

Price jumps for a MH mace/axe with str/socket/CD are just as...intimidating.

With news of a speculated nerf to minmax affix in black weapons and/or jewelry in 1.07....... -_- i'm hunting for bargains, but very wary of getting shafted by nerfs or overspending on weapons to the detriment of other slots.

are there guidelines you use to balance your weapons/gear/overall stats requirements for MP4-5-6-7?
Just got back into playing d3 again after i think patch 1.02.

I am about to sink all my gold of 1.7m (It's all i have and its very little i know)

What i think i am going to do is to try and model the items that your female barb has, and try to upgrade towards your male barb. Would that be a good way to go?

Another question i have is what can your female barb farm?
(I'm totally new to this whole MP thing so do you mind providing me with more info? =X)

Thanks!
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800+ dps - between 50-100mil <<< good enough for quick MP7 runs/not?
900+ dps - around 100-150mil
1k dps - around 300mil and above

Price jumps for a MH mace/axe with str/socket/CD are just as...intimidating.

With news of a speculated nerf to minmax affix in black weapons and/or jewelry in 1.07....... -_- i'm hunting for bargains, but very wary of getting shafted by nerfs or overspending on weapons to the detriment of other slots.

are there guidelines you use to balance your weapons/gear/overall stats requirements for MP4-5-6-7?


I was away for the weekend and don't know about any nerfs to black damage weapons. I just glanced through the front page posts and the most recent blue posts. I can't comment on that but if it is true, you need to buy with caution.

EF on weapon dps is less important for OH use. I prefer to use them in OH because the rising cost of higher DPS for MH use is very high. A 700dps vs 1k dps OH EF translates to ~2.5% tdps difference but the cost is probably 300% higher. I use an 800dps OH and do just fine.

MH maces will cost a lot. There is no skirting it. Whether black weapons get nerfed will determine how useful they become. I'll be looking for more info today.

As for gear requirements for different MP, I look at them like this:
MP4: 1.1m tdps vs elites, 500kish ehp+dodge buffed
mp5: 1.4m tdsps vs elites, 600kish ehp+dodge buffed
mp6: 1.8m tdps vs elites, 700kish ehp+dodge buffed
mp7: 2mil tdps v elites, 800kish ehp+dodge buffed

These are estimates for fast alkaizer runs judging from my own experiences. I'm at 1.8mil tdps and 800k ehp and am doing mp7 for the drops. It's a little slow but I'm not paragon lvling anymore.
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What i think i am going to do is to try and model the items that your female barb has, and try to upgrade towards your male barb. Would that be a good way to go?

Another question i have is what can your female barb farm?


I think this is a great way to start out. Just understand that for the same amount of gold you could get more dps. You give up ehp and put things like vit/ar on dps slots. This makes advancing mp harder since you need a certain amount of ehp as you push mp while you can do higher mp slowly with lower dps.

Bad stat distribution onto dps slots makes upgrading harder since you will end up replacing several pieces for 1 dps upgrade. The way my female barb is setup, you can upgrade a dps slot by itself for pure dps.

edit: i just realized the female barb's set was a 500k set. The usual one is a 15mil set that speed runs alkaizer at MP3. The current one can do mediocre alkaizer runs at mp0-1.
Edited by PhatPhoEater#1370 on 1/22/2013 10:52 AM PST
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I am sitting at 2.81 right now but with an ammy swap I can drop 3% IAS for a bunch of CC
D and a little CC... liking the AS right now though. Still, except for elite and champ packs, it means little while leveling, since no matter how I work it I have a very hard time keeping fury, and certainly no permawrath.


I put you into d3rawr and it shows you are 3.2/2.7aps fully buffed. You are 17ias over the current breakpoint. That is a lot of wasted IAS where you could be stacking crit damage. I also see you sacrificed cc for ias. This isn't how I would have approached set building and it is probably the main reason you cant keep permawrath. I like 25cc+ on gear.

If I had your set, my priorities would be to get at least another 8cc on gear and drop the 17ias to get there. I would also change my MH to a mace or axe, depending on the budget. Keeping 4 slots of IAS would keep me at 2.5aps on both weapons.

I would try to offload the AR/vit on my jewelry to make it cheaper to get more dps on them.

I would replace the belt with an IK with similar str/vit, pants with massive vit/ar/sockets and str if i could afford. Pants can also be cheaper with big str/vit/ar and no sockets.
Phat, I'm not exactly sure what my APS is at to be at BP for 2.23, can you take a look at my char and give some advice? Really appreciate it!
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01/22/2013 05:53 PMPosted by Stark
Phat, I'm not exactly sure what my APS is at to be at BP for 2.23, can you take a look at my char and give some advice? Really appreciate it!


you need 32 ias on gear to hit 2.23 on your MH, 15ias on gear to hit 2.5 on OH. 15ias on gear would also bring your MH to 2.0.
would it matter if my main hand is an axe? its not a mace
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01/22/2013 08:42 PMPosted by Stark
would it matter if my main hand is an axe? its not a mace


the numbers i gave you are for the axe and ias dagger in your profile.
What i think i am going to do is to try and model the items that your female barb has, and try to upgrade towards your male barb. Would that be a good way to go?

Another question i have is what can your female barb farm?


I think this is a great way to start out. Just understand that for the same amount of gold you could get more dps. You give up ehp and put things like vit/ar on dps slots. This makes advancing mp harder since you need a certain amount of ehp as you push mp while you can do higher mp slowly with lower dps.

Bad stat distribution onto dps slots makes upgrading harder since you will end up replacing several pieces for 1 dps upgrade. The way my female barb is setup, you can upgrade a dps slot by itself for pure dps.

edit: i just realized the female barb's set was a 500k set. The usual one is a 15mil set that speed runs alkaizer at MP3. The current one can do mediocre alkaizer runs at mp0-1.


EDIT: NVM! Think i'm pretty much on track now. Can't seem to grab a decent chest/pants and still considering on the spending on the boots.

Is it normal to have the in game aps write 2.21 with a 1.2 mace MH+0.25 echoing fury (34% ias + enchantress 3%)
Or am i suppose to get a tid bit more ias for 2.23?
Edited by Nuuudals#6617 on 1/23/2013 4:21 AM PST
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EDIT: NVM! Think i'm pretty much on track now. Can't seem to grab a decent chest/pants and still considering on the spending on the boots.

Is it normal to have the in game aps write 2.21 with a 1.2 mace MH+0.25 echoing fury (34% ias + enchantress 3%)
Or am i suppose to get a tid bit more ias for 2.23?


hitting 2.23 unbuffed is unnecessary. I only shoot for buffed aps goals.

I hope part of your chest/pants/boots shopping includes increasing your vit. I think a helm socket is very important. Ik boots pair nicely with the belt for the AR bonus.

edit: i don't like gloves with only a single dps mod.
Edited by PhatPhoEater#1370 on 1/23/2013 5:49 AM PST
EDIT: NVM! Think i'm pretty much on track now. Can't seem to grab a decent chest/pants and still considering on the spending on the boots.

Is it normal to have the in game aps write 2.21 with a 1.2 mace MH+0.25 echoing fury (34% ias + enchantress 3%)
Or am i suppose to get a tid bit more ias for 2.23?


hitting 2.23 unbuffed is unnecessary. I only shoot for buffed aps goals.

I hope part of your chest/pants/boots shopping includes increasing your vit. I think a helm socket is very important. Ik boots pair nicely with the belt for the AR bonus.

edit: i don't like gloves with only a single dps mod.


Yea, i got the stuff cheap so i just went ahead and bought them. The helm was in the 30k range, while the others were all in the 25k-100k region. (Except the weapons)

I basically made my purchase with the thought of keeping as much CC as possible while hitting the 34% ias and having them within a cheap price range. (I think i was successful with this)

I am looking to get a better gloves, replace the boots with the IK boots and overally get good EHP from the chest/pants slot. (Can't afford anything decent from what i have seen, need to farm more xD)

Thanks for the help! :D
Edited by Nuuudals#6617 on 1/23/2013 6:00 AM PST
Hi Phat, I would like your critique on my gear please. Most of it came for less than 15mil or was found myself. The EF was a gift from a good friend. I noticed from your previous posts that you suggest getting your IAS from 4 slots while I have it on 6. The sixth was the hellfire ring where I finally lucked out on a good one and I decided to use it for the +exp. Unbuffed, I had just reached a new breakpoint with my OH with the 5th piece (the other ring) before the hellfire ring came along. I feel as though there are some gearing "mistakes" on my barb and I would love your critique of them.

Looking for my next upgrade seems to be difficult. There are upgrades I've considered:

Mempo with crit (too expensive)
Vile Ward (costly for what looks to be a sidegrade)
Ice Climbers (too expensive with MS)
Pants replacement (too expensive without losing vitality)

Here are my BUFFED stats of note from D3rawr:
tDPS: 926112
eHP with dodge: 941157
Attacks per second: 2.7528/3.4782
Damage: 204284.22

Any thoughts, tips, suggestions, would be greatly appreciated!

Any tips/suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thank you
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TBH, sets like yours give me a headache. You've put IAS all over the place and any changes you make to clean it up will cost a lot of gold and not yield any tdps improvement. To see any real tdps improvement you need to spend several hundred million.

You can either change your weapons to get a bigger damage range on your MH or str on your OH. If you keep an EF in MH, expect to pay several hundred mil. This still wouldnt address the sloppy IAS issue. To maximize an EF MH you need a max roll aps EF and a max roll IAS dagger OH with 1.66aps. With this setup, you can reasonably achieve 2.5/3.33 fully buffed with 4 slots. Anything short of these on-weapon aps numbers and you start having to stack more slots of IAS. As you can guess, this costs alot of gold.

Alternatively, you could just drop the 9ias from ammy and stay at 2.5 on mh and drop to 2.86 on OH. You would add however much cd you could afford with average damage. This would be a sidegrade if you added 70cd, but with 30-60 avg dam it would give you a 7% tdps boost.

Alternatively, you could use a standard mace mh/ef OH setup which wouldn't cost nearly as much but you wouldn't see much tdps improvement. After cleaning up your IAS to hit 2.5 on both weapons you'd probably be at very similar tdps.

The way I look at your current set is similar to sets that put tons of vit or ar on jewelry/weapons and any upgrades to increase dps will require a complete overhaul. You've maxed out on cheap upgrades and because you have IAS everywhere, affordable upgrades will be side-grades.

IMO you have to decide which direction you want to go in the long term. mace mh/ef OH like my setup and stay in mid tier tdps for a long time. Or just save up massive gold and drop several hundred mil on new weapons for end game tier gear. If you decide to go end game tier route, you can go EF MH with the IaS dagger I described above or Ias axe mh with EF OH. If you decide to skip mid tier dps you will be stuck at your current tier for a long time.
Hi Phat,

Please have a look at my toon below:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Coolvan31-6976/hero/30387378

With my crappy hell fire replacing the rare ring and enchantress, I am hitting 1.81 aps unbuffed. When I am lvling, I replace the helm gem with 29% experience gem. I save up around 180m for upgrade. Can you please point me to the right direction?
Hey man.

I would really appreciate some advice on my weapons. I think that they are my major weakness now but Im having trouble finding a couple better at around 150M , which is the gold I have now....

Maybe I sohuld wait and save more?

Ty in advance
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Hi Phat,
With my crappy hell fire replacing the rare ring and enchantress, I am hitting 1.81 aps unbuffed. When I am lvling, I replace the helm gem with 29% experience gem. I save up around 180m for upgrade. Can you please point me to the right direction?


If you want to keep your IK set, you have a couple options. You could go with 2 slots of IAS and hit 2.23 on both and eventually upgrade your MH to an IAS axe like wayneold does. This would get you to 2.5/2.23. Your second slot of IAS would ideally come from your gloves but seeing as how you've stacked AR/Vit there, it wont come cheap. I am not a fan of hellfire rings without a dps mod. I'd rather stack more dps in that slot and kill things faster than use the exp bonus. I never used a hellfire for leveling. I rolled my current just a few weeks ago.

If you go this route, the most cost effective way to do this is to drop LS from MH and get an EF with LS. If you intend to go hybrid hota/ww you will need a decent dps EF for this. If you go straight DT, you can get one like mine. This would free up your MH for just str/crit/socket /ias and max damage range.

There are paths to getting higher aps with ik5 but it requires witching hour and innas which will drop your ehp.

the other IK5 option is to just settle with 2.23 on both hands and go mace mh/EF OH. I would still look to offload the LS to the OH since you want to maximize the dps of your MH.

In general, I don't like using SOJ until you have your cc/ias sorted out as you aren't getting a lot of benefit from it at relatively low dps.

In any situation you need another slot of IAS and IMO it should come from one of your ring slots. Always shoot for 30-60 dam, 70str+, 8ias+, 4.5cc+.
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