Diablo® III

Phat's budget Double Nado and gear reference

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Hey man.

I would really appreciate some advice on my weapons. I think that they are my major weakness now but Im having trouble finding a couple better at around 150M , which is the gold I have now....


It pains me to see that ef. Nice damage range but low aps. I would start by putting the EF in your MH and dagger in OH. With only 15 ias on gear, you aren't going to get much higher aps than you currently have. I would only farm MP where you can kill elites quickly since that EF in the Mh will drive you nuts without a cold soj.

Doing this puts you at 1.2 mil tdps fully buffed. adding 2ias to your gloves puts you at 1.3mil @ 2.23/2.5 aps.

if you get the weapon i describe in my third post with 110str without crit and use a 90cd gem and use your current ef you get tdps of 1.1m. This is with adding 2ias to your gloves.

if you get the mace in the previous example and use an EF with my stats but no extra crit and sub in LS using a 90cd gem, you get 1.2m tdps. With my .24aps you wouldnt need to add 2ias to your gloves.

These examples show that you can similar performance by getting 2 new weapons or use your currents. The only difference is that you have to deal with MH EF fear procs. Since you already own the weapons, you can try this out for yourself and see if it causes you problems. I would suggest doing alk runs on mp4 with that tdps.

the mace i describe should cost under 10m. If you want to spend bigger and look for a mace like mine with 50 base crit and an EF OH with socket/str/LS then your tdps would be 1.32mil.

I know you asked about weapon advice, but the most glaring problem with your set is zero move speed. I make this a priority even with low budget gear sets. I would strongly consider lacunis. You have to decide if you want to get tanky to do mp10 ubers or not. I like putting some ehp on the lacunis, like my current ones. Prior to these, I used double vit roll, str, AR lacunis without cc. I dont like forcing ar on my jewelry or gloves so I settled on bracers. If you want pure dps out of your bracers then str/cc lacunis are the way to go. Just understand that your AR will be gimped as a result.

Your boots aren't terrible but I'd value MS over stats. You could go innas but then you'd be dropping a big chunk of AR. From all the pvp threads it looks like big ehp pants are the way people are going. Even if you got innas with big vit, your IC stats are meh. You'll have to decide if you want to go all in for innas which will require IC's with bigger stats or get big stat IK boots or monster IC with stats/MS.
phatpho , i have 40m what to upgrade?
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01/23/2013 07:57 PMPosted by Teddy
phatpho , i have 40m what to upgrade?


If all you are looking for is tdps increase then you can look at getting another 17ias across 2 slots, glove and ring. This will put you into 2.5aps on both weapons.

You could also consider gettting a socket EF to get another 90 crit damage.

I would also look at getting a better MH. Your damage range is low and the big number dps is inflated because of the IAS on the weapon. You should look for a 650-1200 weapon without IAS and it should give a significant boost.

As always, use d3rawr to see exactly what you are getting.
i found EF with socket but no lifesteal , is that ok? around 40m
Due to the long term benefits, thinking of getting a mace/axe with a high dmg range (around 650-1200) + high CD (80% or more) + socket and pairing it with an .24aps EF with str+LS+socket. No STR on the MH due to price considerations.

How much would you judge to be a reasonable price/budget range for the 2 weps above?

Another alternative I'm looking at would be to go Sun Keeper MH (losing dmg range but gaining bonus vs elites) and the same EF in the OH.

Looking at this combo since it would "settle" my weapons for the forseeable future and allow me to have a bit more freedom to play with other slots.

If you have any criticism or warnings about the line of thought / ideas above.. please do share!
@Phat,

I tried your suggestion on hitting 2.5aps breakpoint. I have mempo and ring below:

1) Mempo

Str-172
Attack speed - 8%
Other non DPS modifier not included here

2) Ring 1
Damage - 14max
Str - 85
CC - 5.5
Attack speed - 9%

3) Ring 2
Damage - 32-67
Str -70
CC -4.5
Attack speed - 9%

I have lacuni with 8% attack speed.

Thus with my ef 2.24, I have 8/8/9/9, hitting 2.5 fully buffed. Now I put those into calculator, I am only 41k more dps compare with my old stat, old stat with 5IK and 35% bonus from hell fire ring. Am I doing something not right here?
Edited by Coolvan31#6976 on 1/24/2013 2:20 AM PST
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Due to the long term benefits, thinking of getting a mace/axe with a high dmg range (around 650-1200) + high CD (80% or more) + socket and pairing it with an .24aps EF with str+LS+socket. No STR on the MH due to price considerations.

How much would you judge to be a reasonable price/budget range for the 2 weps above?

Another alternative I'm looking at would be to go Sun Keeper MH (losing dmg range but gaining bonus vs elites) and the same EF in the OH.


Getting 80crit on your MH will be similar to getting 40crit/150str. I'd imagine this kind of weapon would cost 150m on buyout. Mine is slightly worse and I got it on bid for 100m. The EF should cost less than 30m, but just like the CD EFs, these are becoming harder to find.

Sun keeper can work but always use d3rawr to see exactly what you get. 10% may sound like alot but it may just be a wash if you are losing 10% off the damage range of the weapon.
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01/24/2013 02:14 AMPosted by Coolvan31
Thus with my ef 2.24, I have 8/8/9/9, hitting 2.5 fully buffed. Now I put those into calculator, I am only 41k more dps compare with my old stat, old stat with 5IK and 35% bonus from hell fire ring. Am I doing something not right here?


It's hard to know without seeing your previous set and plugging both into d3rawr. is the 41k paper dps fully buffed? is it tdps fully buffed? is this comparing to an old set with an SOJ? hard to make any comparisons without knowing the full picture.
Hi Phat,

Agree, its confusing and I cant post two different sets here. So stats as below:

Full IK + hell fire + SOJ (original route):

tDPS against elite : 727,611
EHP dodge : 774,247

IK helm :
Str : 193
Vit : 74
Life : 28% including gem
CC : 5%
Reduces melee damage : 5%

Hell fire :
Str : 188
Dex : 67
Int : 100
Vit : 94

SOJ
Cold damage : 5%
Elite : 28%

2.51 route (new with existing items)

tDPS against elite : 706,238
EHP dodge : 766,501

Mempo:
Str : 172
Dex : 100
AR : 80
Attack speed : 8%
Life : 27%

Ring 1:
Vit : 76
Attack speed : 9%
CC : 5.5

Ring 2:
Damage : 14 Max
Str : 85
Attack speed : 9%
CC : 5.5%


I am aware ring 2 is a bit lacking, but it is something dropped for me to check out the dps increase. Actually in scenario 2 both tDPS and EHP decreases. It was different from my original post because I use Overpower instead of HOTA and ring 2 stat I input in original post was still on AH. And I happen to found my current ring 2.

I have 180m at the moment. What would be the best way to increase dps, best bang for the bucks.
Edited by Coolvan31#6976 on 1/24/2013 8:56 AM PST
Phat,
first off thanks for your help throughout the barb boards. I've been reading your (and a few others') posts and they've been helpful. I'm now at a point where I'm not sure what to do next. Fully buffed I'm breaking the 2.0 aps for both weapons and I really need some guidance into which piece should be upgraded next. There's a catch though...I only have 22mil currently (just bought my OH ring) to spend. I'm struggling between getting IK gloves or lacunis but both drop my tDPS and my EHP, plus I dont get to the next APS threshold of 2.23 (I would need two IAS pieces). I'm thinking maybe I should save up to get two pieces. Alternatively I could start saving and getting 'end game' equipment (100mil++) very very slowly. This all being said I'm open to exploring new options you may have.

In regards to in game play, MP5 is pretty breezy, MP6 is ok too, just a bit slow

thanks so much again for the advice!

edit: Ran some tests and found that I need 15 more IAS for 2.3 breakpoint for both weapons (FYI)
Edited by Yiannaki#1777 on 1/24/2013 12:39 PM PST
Phat,
Ive been following some of your advices and my barb is a lot better now. Anyway i dont know what to do next other than the obvious upgrades (crit mempo, higher dps EF, sick ammy, etc...), maybe just changing to a cold soj?
Also i know i must change my oculus ring, but i would lose too much ehp in the process and dont knoe where else to get it. Any help is appreciated, thank you!
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I am aware ring 2 is a bit lacking, but it is something dropped for me to check out the dps increase. Actually in scenario 2 both tDPS and EHP decreases. It was different from my original post because I use Overpower instead of HOTA and ring 2 stat I input in original post was still on AH. And I happen to found my current ring 2.

I have 180m at the moment. What would be the best way to increase dps, best bang for the bucks.


the reason the IK5 set has higher tdps vs elites is the SOJ. In set 2 your tdps vs all is being brought up a significant amount not captured by the data you are showing. If you go back and include the tdps vs all number, I'm sure that number is jumping quite a bit between the 2 sets. IMO, its probably not worth using an SOJ until it helps you get over 1mil tdps v elites.

The reason your ehp is dropping is that you are losing the melee reduction on ik helm and the vit on hellfire. I've stated it several times, but I don't like ar/vit on my jewelry, unless it is free. I also dont like to get ar/vit on my gloves unless I've already stacked all the dps mods I can afford on there first. I prefer to put the AR on my bracers but I understand that option is also expensive.

I feel like a broken record but if you want to keep IK5 and want to maximize your aps it's probably best to stop at 2 slots of IAS and hitting 2.23 on both weapons. This means bracers and either helm/gloves/ring. I don't like hellfires if they have zero dps mods. I'd give up the bonus exp to kill things faster. You've already got a mempo and that gives a good AR bump. You could just do the helm and bracers, but your tdps will be gimped for as long as you have only single dps mod on glove and zero on your ring. IMO the optimal weapon combo for IK5 is IAS axe MH/EF OH. With 2 slots of IAs you can hit 2.5/2.23.

I would also consider getting a new MH. If you want to drop your entire budget here, you should expect high damage range, str/crit and socket. I would consider putting the LS on your OH or drop it entirely if you want to rely on bloodthirst and belt.

Personally, I'm not a fan of IK5. I would dump the gloves for double dps mod, cc/ias. I would get a 30-60 dam, 70str, 8ias, and 4.5cc+ ring and use the SOJ. I would use the mempo and lacunis. This would get you to 2.5 aps and cost 15-20mil for the gloves and ring. I would then drop around 100m on a MH with str/crit/socket. I would also get an EF with str/socket and either LS or crit depending on whats available. You can calc this out into d3rawr but IMO this will get you to higher tdps vs the IK5 set you currently have. IK5 limits the number of easy IAS slots you can use.

You can overcome this challenge but having gloves with only single dps mod is very limiting.
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Phat,
first off thanks for your help throughout the barb boards. I've been reading your (and a few others') posts and they've been helpful. I'm now at a point where I'm not sure what to do next. Fully buffed I'm breaking the 2.0 aps for both weapons and I really need some guidance into which piece should be upgraded next. There's a catch though...I only have 22mil currently (just bought my OH ring) to spend. I'm struggling between getting IK gloves or lacunis but both drop my tDPS and my EHP, plus I dont get to the next APS threshold of 2.23 (I would need two IAS pieces). I'm thinking maybe I should save up to get two pieces. Alternatively I could start saving and getting 'end game' equipment (100mil++) very very slowly. This all being said I'm open to exploring new options you may have.

In regards to in game play, MP5 is pretty breezy, MP6 is ok too, just a bit slow

thanks so much again for the advice!

edit: Ran some tests and found that I need 15 more IAS for 2.3 breakpoint for both weapons (FYI)


When you talk about losing ehp from gloves this is the exact reason I dont like putting ehp on them and also why its important to invest in solid ehp pieces on chest/shoulder/pants and to a lesser extent boots. That extra 80str you get on your boots over budget IK boots can easily be made up by getting 8 or 9ias on your gloves. Ik boots would give you vit and AR so you could get rid of it from your gloves.

You had the right idea for chest but decided to stop getting big vit on the pants. Getting vit on weapons is also a recipe for upgrade headaches.

The reason I'm focusing on these pieces and not your dps pieces is that you correctly identified upgrading for more dps will cause you to lose ehp. You have lowish ehp because your core armor pieces are weak. If you want disregard ehp, that is fine, but you won't be able to push MP and faceroll with pure dps. You need some ehp.

First thing I would do is flip as many gems to vit as necessary. This fixes any lost vit from your dps slots. I would replace the OH with a dagger or EF. I prefer EFs for the reason listed in post #3 of this thread. Getting an EF OH will automatically put you into 2.23 on both weapons with no other upgrades. If you get a dagger you need another 10ias to hit 2.0/2.5.

If you look at what you are thinking of doing, adding 2 more slots of IAS to hit 2.23 with your current weapons, it is very inefficient. You are stacking 4 slots of IAS just to hit 2.23 when you can do the same with jsut 2 slots and an EF, or 3 slots and a mace/dagger combo. Either way, your OH is too slow and needs to be replaced.
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Phat,
Ive been following some of your advices and my barb is a lot better now. Anyway i dont know what to do next other than the obvious upgrades (crit mempo, higher dps EF, sick ammy, etc...), maybe just changing to a cold soj?
Also i know i must change my oculus ring, but i would lose too much ehp in the process and dont knoe where else to get it. Any help is appreciated, thank you!


that oculus ring isnt completely bad. It has cc which helps, its better than most trash hellfires I see. i would seriously consider dropping either ring for a cold SOJ. It will be the biggest single slot upgrade at this gear level. If you drop the ehp ring then you can consider getting some ehp on your lacunis. Getting ehp on your bracers is approaching end game gear. This is part of the problem with using Innas, lack of slots for AR.

Second biggest upgrade will be adding str to your MH. However, you may want to skip that tier of weapon and save up for end game weapons. Huge EF MH with IAS dagger OH or huge ias axe MH with big EF OH. this is where I currently am stuck.
Hey Phat, any suggestions on my toon? I've got about 35m gold and im ok to save.

Currently just play MP5, was doing MP0 paragon farms but will wait till next patch.

I've logged out in my MP5 keyfarming gear, in my stash I've got (@ work so dont have exact stats!):

Weps:
- Mighty Wep: Blade of the Warlord with 3% LS 11% IAS STR
- Mace with ~950dps 3% LS STR & 54CD
Amulet - ~270 STR 230 VIT 82 CD
Ring - 9% IAS 4.5 CC Socket AR (38) & low vit.
Belt - Witching Hour 9% IAS 49 CD 140+ STR
Pants - ~180STR ~95 VIT 70AR Soc 300 Armor
Boots: ~170 STR/VIT ~70AR Armor, but not movement speed.

Currently use the enchantress. I can do MP10 but downing elites can take a while as you can probably imagine with my current setup.

d3rawr says APS is 2.21236 / 2.059, I'm not sure how to get to the next BPs correctly, currently I've just been switching to the might wep but lose the CC.

Also should I be aiming for the BPs on both MH & OH to hit either 2.23, 2.5 or 2.86? Or just MH???

Happy to sell my gear or whats in my stash etc.
Hello Phat,
Would you please comment on my build?
I can handle MP10 just fine, but it takes a while to kill things.
I have 160m gold to upgrade. I am thinking about spending it on a IK Iron with 9% AS to replace mine. Is it a good move? Or should I get something else.
I also have a SOJ ring; 6% cold damage with 21% Damage to Elite.
Should I switch out one of the ring with SOJ? I appreciate your advise!
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Also should I be aiming for the BPs on both MH & OH to hit either 2.23, 2.5 or 2.86? Or just MH???


It depends. with a mace/EF combo you are shooting for both weapons to be at 2.23 or 2.5. You are currently between the 2 breakpoints with 3 slots of IAS. With one more slot of 8IAS you will be at 2.5 fully buffed. I'm not a fan of your ehp situation with zero vit innas and zero AR boots. This works fine for low mp but using this set at mid mp or higher will require defensive skills like warcry. Not a problem but you are leaving a lot of bonus CC on the table by not using opks.

IMO you'd be better off getting Lacunis with whatever combo of cc/vit/ar you can afford and getting big ehp pants. This solves your ehp/ias problems. I would only use Innas if they had big vit and had non MS boots with monster stats. If you don't have the bankroll or good enough gear in other slots, I'd pass. Relying on pants for IAS and zero ehp makes no sense if it forces you to put it on your ammy/bracers and still have less than desirable stats.

Not having a socket in your MH is missing out on a big source of crit damage.
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Hello Phat,
Would you please comment on my build?
I can handle MP10 just fine, but it takes a while to kill things.
I have 160m gold to upgrade. I am thinking about spending it on a IK Iron with 9% AS to replace mine. Is it a good move? Or should I get something else.
I also have a SOJ ring; 6% cold damage with 21% Damage to Elite.
Should I switch out one of the ring with SOJ? I appreciate your advise!


I 100% agree with soj, just not yours. 21% BvE is too low. you need high 20s. I assume it would replace our MH ring which has a lot of EHP stacked on it. You have that to cover up the weak inna pants with a combined str/vit of ~100. This coupled with a IC with only 250 combined stats is a weak combo. IMO if you cant go big on innas/IC, its best to not do it. It would let you drop the AR from your ring and go with SOJ.

WRT your IAS you already have 5 slots and one of them is a low roll trifecta. You'd be much better off dropping the wasted IAS off ammy and adding bigger str and average damage. OH, i see why you stack so much IAS, bad aps roll on EF.

Your set is kind of broken. You can keep adding to it but your dps potential isnt much higher. If this were my set, I'd replace both weapons, get new gloves with IAS/CC and big str. From there I would have to decide if I want to stick with the sub-par inna/IC combo you have because I would need a 4th slot of IAS and to use an SOJ it might require the Innas.
Phat,
first off thanks for your help throughout the barb boards. I've been reading your (and a few others') posts and they've been helpful. I'm now at a point where I'm not sure what to do next. Fully buffed I'm breaking the 2.0 aps for both weapons and I really need some guidance into which piece should be upgraded next. There's a catch though...I only have 22mil currently (just bought my OH ring) to spend. I'm struggling between getting IK gloves or lacunis but both drop my tDPS and my EHP, plus I dont get to the next APS threshold of 2.23 (I would need two IAS pieces). I'm thinking maybe I should save up to get two pieces. Alternatively I could start saving and getting 'end game' equipment (100mil++) very very slowly. This all being said I'm open to exploring new options you may have.

In regards to in game play, MP5 is pretty breezy, MP6 is ok too, just a bit slow

thanks so much again for the advice!

edit: Ran some tests and found that I need 15 more IAS for 2.3 breakpoint for both weapons (FYI)


When you talk about losing ehp from gloves this is the exact reason I dont like putting ehp on them and also why its important to invest in solid ehp pieces on chest/shoulder/pants and to a lesser extent boots. That extra 80str you get on your boots over budget IK boots can easily be made up by getting 8 or 9ias on your gloves. Ik boots would give you vit and AR so you could get rid of it from your gloves.

You had the right idea for chest but decided to stop getting big vit on the pants. Getting vit on weapons is also a recipe for upgrade headaches.

The reason I'm focusing on these pieces and not your dps pieces is that you correctly identified upgrading for more dps will cause you to lose ehp. You have lowish ehp because your core armor pieces are weak. If you want disregard ehp, that is fine, but you won't be able to push MP and faceroll with pure dps. You need some ehp.

First thing I would do is flip as many gems to vit as necessary. This fixes any lost vit from your dps slots. I would replace the OH with a dagger or EF. I prefer EFs for the reason listed in post #3 of this thread. Getting an EF OH will automatically put you into 2.23 on both weapons with no other upgrades. If you get a dagger you need another 10ias to hit 2.0/2.5.

If you look at what you are thinking of doing, adding 2 more slots of IAS to hit 2.23 with your current weapons, it is very inefficient. You are stacking 4 slots of IAS just to hit 2.23 when you can do the same with jsut 2 slots and an EF, or 3 slots and a mace/dagger combo. Either way, your OH is too slow and needs to be replaced.


Phat, Great advice as expected. Time to save up some gold!

Thank you!
Thanks!

I've updated some gear, thoughts? Also what does 'opks' stand for?
Edited by KAMBO#1431 on 1/25/2013 12:40 AM PST
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