Diablo® III

Skorn or 2 1 Handers?

i feel like with 2 1handers im hitting a wall at 160k..... even a 500m upgrade only gets me like 10k...should i use skorn?
Edited by UnHoLy#1906 on 1/18/2013 6:48 AM PST
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Skorn would probably increase your DPS on paper, but without a lot of IAS, it's hard to turn that paper DPS into effective DPS. Skorn requires a lot of IAS for performance with WWDT builds, whereas two 1-handers does not require as much and is initially cheaper to build a WWDT build with.

If you'd like to use a Skorn, I'd suggest a HOTA/Rend build with high CC and CD, and then lastly build up your IAS. Rend doesn't need IAS (it ignores your IAS completely), only HOTA does to improve performance. If you'd like to continue WWing, I suggest sticking with two 1-handers for now because with dual-wielding it's easier to maintain permawrath and generate fury with while on a monetary budget.

There are tons of searchable threads on the forums about both builds.
Edited by sfxer#1565 on 1/18/2013 7:21 AM PST
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+1 ^^
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The raw dps of Skorn isn't that bad for low MP farming.

But for higher MP, the problem become obvious. It's on the survivability. LoH is almost useless unless you have a lot of IAS/LoH items, and high damage with LS is much more expensive that 2handers with EF. Also if you want to make Skorn worthwhile, you would probably use Inna pants, Witch belt, Tal rashas chest, Andy helm to maximize atk speed. And they're all super expensive with resist affix.
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Skorn would probably increase your DPS on paper, but without a lot of IAS, it's hard to turn that paper DPS into effective DPS. Skorn requires a lot of IAS for performance with WWDT builds, whereas two 1-handers does not require as much and is initially cheaper to build a WWDT build with.

If you'd like to use a Skorn, I'd suggest a HOTA/Rend build with high CC and CD, and then lastly build up your IAS. Rend doesn't need IAS (it ignores your IAS completely), only HOTA does to improve performance. If you'd like to continue WWing, I suggest sticking with two 1-handers for now because with dual-wielding it's easier to maintain permawrath and generate fury with while on a monetary budget.

There are tons of searchable threads on the forums about both builds.


This.

www.d3rawr.com/d -> tDPS
Learn it, use it, love it.

Spoiler:
Unless you can drop billions on gear- Skorn for sheet dps, DW for real damage.
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Skorn can put out just as much DPS as a DW WW build, and better single target DPS as well. But it's more expensive. That's the message.
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I gave up on using a Skorn. Even with lots of ias, it cannot compare to dual wield for WW or HOTA builds with the same paper DPS. I would recommend a low cost but high damage EF > 11XX dps with no socket (this is how it is cheap) paired up with a fast attack speed dagger with OH+LS+CD. If you farm lower MP levels then you can sacrifice AR and CC on items like Mempos and Lacuni Prowlers and Inna's pants. These items without CC or AR are very affordable but very effective in increasing your dps. You could also look at Tal Rasha's chest for additional AS and use the IK belt & gloves along with low cost Ice Climers. With tri fecta gloves and rings and a high avd damage/str/CC/CD amulet, you can get your dps in the 150K range but your effective killing abilities should be far superior to wielding a Skorn that gets you to that paper dps. For higher MP fun/Ubers, you can pair this build up with a -4 to-5 HOTA SOJ but those are like 500M+ now. A cheaper alternative would be a Storm Shield that provides -5 HOTA and provides much more survivability. Get this shield before 1.07 drives their price up.
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I also gave up my skorn, this is for a HOTA/Rend build. I miss the bigger area, bigger damage hits on multiple mobs that come with a skorn, but I'm doing much better with perma-wrath (both ubers and normal runs), and generally I play faster and safer (although skorn-based LS is larger).
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I have no intentions of giving up on my Skorn, but I'd only recommend to a very narrow range of players. In all but very specific situations, dual wield is a much better option.

When I was playing DW WW, anything past MP7 or so was very uncomfortable. An LS Skorn by itself without changing any other gear turned MP10 into a faceroll for me.

That said, you really have to know what you're in for and what you want. I originally was trying to force HotA/Rend while dual wielding maces, and it didn't work well because the weapon damage was too low for rend to heal me properly, even with 6% LS on gear.

I then used ww/sprint with the same gear just because I had to. Getting a Skorn was committing to using HotA/Rend on high MP rather than ww/sprint, which I'm fine with because I simply don't like ww/sprint very much.

Using a Skorn properly requires very specific gearing whether you're going ww/sprint or even HotA/Rend. It's well accepted that you need to hit the 1.82 APS breakpoint to perma-wrath, which requires 58% IAS from gear with a non-IAS Skorn. That means a minimum of 7 slots of IAS, and if you're using a SoJ, that means that a Witching Hour and Innas are both required, along with an Andariels or preferably a Mempo. If you're set on using ww/sprint with a Skorn, the cost of entry is upwards of a billion. I'm sure some people will say they're using ww/sprint with a non-LS skorn, under 1.5 APS, and/or under 30% CC from gear, but in these cases, dual wielding will simply run circles around a Skorn. (Literally)

Even for HotA, 1.4 APS seems to be about the minimum I can get away with to perma-wrath effectively along with a -4 HotA SoJ and 33% CC from gear. Additionally, until you break past the 200k unbuffed DPS range, your healing likely won't be sufficient even with bloodthirst and an IK/lamentation belt to easily survive the worst damage dealers in MP10 A2 and A3. IMO, there's pretty much no case where it really makes sense to buy a Skorn either without LS or IAS. And the latter is just to facilitate hitting massive DPS easier, to the point where you can drop the witching hour and get 3% LS from a belt. For everyone else, a Skorn with LS is the only type worth considering. Otherwise, you'll get better healing and similar damage output from dual wielding with 3% on (at least) one weapon.

tl;dr the supporting gear to make Skorn work properly is the reason most people (rightfully so) recommend against it.
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01/18/2013 09:53 AMPosted by sfxer
Skorn can put out just as much DPS as a DW WW build, and better single target DPS as well. But it's more expensive. That's the message.


Sorry, but I completely disagree. What makes the Skorn unique is that on single-targets, it's a very attractive option for HoTA Barbarians. But it cannot -- should not -- replace the massive utility of dual-wielding for DTWW Barbarians unless I have missed something over the last two months I have been away.
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Check this out if you haven't, though he does state that AoE damage is better with dual wield, which I think no one would argue against:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7415515590
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I think when ppl talking about Skorn build, they always focus on ias.
I think CC is also very important to keep perm WOTB too.

So to speak, you need to max your ias and cc at the same time.
Which is very expensive and ppl just give up on it.

if you reach a breakpoint to keep perm WOTB with Skorn,
You will love the crazy dmg from HOTA and LS from rend.
You can even drop LS from belt if you are not facing molten/electric RD elite.
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So many well written and educated responses, a far cry from the cesspool of stupidity prevalent months ago.

Also, if your goal is the most exp per hour id suggest mp 2 or 3 with a massive mighty weapon mainhand. It's been a while but as far as I know it is not possible to get > 1m exp per minute otherwise - unless you are ridiculously overgeared and are doing mp 6+.
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Skorn is simply not for a traditional WW build. What a Skorn excels at is massive single target DPS and monster crits. They are ideal for ubers in that regard and you'd be hard pressed to find a DT/WW barb that can down ubers faster than a properly geared Skorn wielding HoTA/Rend barb. That is not to say they won't work well for regular farming however either. For XP farming on lower MP, using cleave with rupture rune can obliterate entire trash mobs with one or 2 swings and using SS has the same effect and returns you a ton of fury and can be spammed if you use the strength from earth rune.

Forget about breakpoints with a Skorn you simply are not going to hit the higher end BP's to worry about it. That doesn't mean you can't perma wrath though on ubers and farming. It just requires a little more thought and care. For instance I can maintain wrath no problem in farming and in ubers at my 1.48 APS. As long as you can get yourself to about 1.3 APS using HoTA as a fury dump works rather well to maintain wrath.

It's a matter of play style and preference. Both can be very effective but both are very expensive in the higher end. You have to decide what direction you want to take and then plan your build accordingly.


What do you use the build in your profile for? I have some trouble permawrathing even in MP10 using sprint with hota/rend. Ubers aren't an issue, but dead space in farming is.

Edit- @Lorenze, different styles at high MP, even ones revolving around Skorn might start getting competitive for raw xp/min with 1.07's xp changes.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 1/18/2013 3:30 PM PST
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Not even sure why this is a discussion

2 x 1 handers for WW

Skorn for HotA/Rend

/thread
Edited by Britty#6649 on 1/18/2013 7:49 PM PST
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500mil lol you can get some really amazing upgrades with that, and if you think dps is the correct answer to gearing towards mp10....think again.the magic find in the new patch for mp10 is awesome, so what if u farming a bit slower but the chances of absolute end game gear is higher, each to their own.
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