Diablo® III

Gearing Philosophies

Hey guys,

Although there are many individual gearing guides out there, I haven't really seen any thread where the gearing giants (Piffle, Scrapz, Nameless, and some of the others who frequently respond to questions like Demiwraith and Shade) actively engage in an exchange of ideas. The philosophies are largely similar, but there are still some important differences that I think the community would learn from.

I certainly do NOT pretend to know it all - far from it, the biggest reason I'm starting this thread is to learn from everybody! I still have a lot to learn. Reading some of the people above's responses to some posters, I would simply like to confirm that I am steering people in the right direction when helping them, or if I could be doing better.

So with that, I'd like to get the ball rolling by listing what I look for in every slot, why, and then open the floor to all constructive criticism! Keep in mind, that this is for what I'd call a decent budget (50-100 mil). I'm not familiar with how to spend like 800 mil or something, as I've repeatedly stated. Another caveat : prices below imply some time and patience - settling on buyouts will net you much higher prices.

From the top :

Overall, I aim for 600 AR, 40K life, 5K armor, 2.00 APS, 2.X LS and 1000-ish LOH, with 24 MS.

- Helm : Inna's Radiance, 5.5 crit, chosen resist, and either + armor or extra vit, depending on the guy's configuration;

- Vile Wards with 180-200 dex, 40 chosen resist, no vit, for like 2-4 mil;

- Ammy : 25-55ish avg dmg (so an ah filter value of 35), dex, 8+ crit chc, crit dmg (as per Nameless - ammy's have the highest innate possible crit dmg rolls, other than weapons). For most build, I'll also need either a resist or vit roll in there somewhere. I try to prioritize resists cuz it's usually cheaper. 10-20 mil

- Chest. What I actually call the core of the build. To save money, I'll try to skip vit on a couple of pieces (ammy, as stated, and also gloves) so I focus on the chest to get max vit. Lately, I've been finding that the best way to do that, is actually a rare chest. I'm also partial to the Tal Rasha's chest for IAS, but the 200+ vit ones can be expensive. Usually, a 140-ish dex, 220-ish vit chest with 3 sockets, and chosen resist, can be had for like 2-4 mil, I've found, and that's usually what I'll steer guys towards.

Question 1 : You guys think that melee dmg reduction on Inna's is worth it? Because, if you ask me, the only difference (dex numbers being equal) between an Inna's chest and the rares mentioned above will be the melee dmg red. 140-ish vit inna's are already like 7-8 mil, and even with the life %, you're usually ahead in vit with the 220 vit rare chest.

- Belt : That's where I round up vit. Looking for 100 dex, 120 vit, 60 all resist and 40 chosen resist, and either strength or armor (strength is cheaper). I try to get at least 110 combined resist out of the belt, and 120 vit, usually more, with a combined armor of at least 400. 2-4 mil

- Pants : Easy, Inna's with resist. 4-5 mil

- Gloves : Looking for 180+ dex, resist, 8 crit chc and 7 IAS. If I can get vit or armor, great. I'll try searching for strength here as well to at least squeeze some more EHP. Cost : depends on budget.

- Bracers : Dex, 4.5 crit at least, vit or life%, armor and/or strength. First discussion point. : I remember someone (I think it was Demiwraith, but it could have been Shade...almost certain it was one of the two) stating that Strongarms were some of the worst bracers you could get. I remember thinking...."not so sure about that!" if you're on a budget. I think they're actually pretty good! If the guy has more money, it's pretty easy to get ones with more EHP (higher vit numbers), but I also try to get either strength or armor there. Cost : Again, depends on budget.

Ring 1 : Low budget will be rare with avg dmg, dex, 4 crit and IAS. I'll also try to squeeze either resist, life% or vit in there, but only one usually, and only to round up what I don't have. If money allows, of course, Nat's ring with avg dmg (I always look for like 25-55, like I said), and either a resist (cheaper) or vit/life % (more expensive). 4-5 mil for rare, 10-20 mil for Nat's

Ring 2 : Unity. =) And I know this will be discussion point 2. I remember someone (today) mentioning that Unity wasn't very good. Again, I disagree, but that's according to my more budget criteria. That person was saying a Litany with avg dmg would be a better choice. Agreed that the dex will be slightly higher with Litany, and that the resists will be higher on Lit (unless you get an AR Unity with a good roll). That being said, I think that given very similar DPS and EHP numbers, LOH trumps Litany here - is the reduced dmg against elites worth it, again? Also, Unity can round out Vit, which can be quite useful. I know Nameless won't be too keen on using rings for EHP, but with Inna's Pants, if you want to maintain 40K life without spending too much...=) 3-4 mil usually

Boots : Either rares with 200 dex, 100 vit, chosen resist and 12 MS, or the Nat's with 180 dex (I search for 170, I've gotten great deals on 178 dex ones) and stacked resists, the chosen resist filter being set at 40. Again, 180 dex Nat's with vit will cost like 40 mil alone. Mine : usually 10-12 mil.

Weapons : Actually, this is one area where I don't even spend all that much. =) My current MH gives me a ton of dmg, and I paid 1.5 mil for it. I search for 1.4 APS weapons (sword/fist or axe with IAS) with 200 dex, crit dmg and OS, and I usually get a fairly hard-hitting weapon for 1 mil! In fact, I JUST won an auction for a sword with 850-ish DPS, 90 crit dmg and socket that is only a 500 dps reduction from my own - for 200K! (My friend has a 1150 DPS fist with 65-ish crit, and socket, but no stats - it's actually a 700 DPS downgrade for me!) So, in other words, for MH, max dmg, but using dex to save money and for a bit of EHP as well (armor/dodge). 1.5-2 mil, 5 max.

(BTW, I'm wearing the giveaway set as I'm writing this, so don't look at my profile just yet. =))

OH : This is where I stack my sustain. I'm looking for dex (no number in ah filter), LS, LOH (500 in filter), and OS. Again, fast weapon as per above only. This is actually a bit more expensive usually, but I'll still get one for 3-5 mil the vast majority of the time.

As you can see, I try to get max dmg in one weap and sustain in the other - I've found that splitting dmg and sustain ends up with less DPS overall. Also, I'm a fan of a combination of LS and LOH for lower budgets. I understand that a perfect end-game combination would be LS on both weapons, with high crit dmg and socket, but for most of us, that's utterly unattainable financially. Or am I wrong?

Discussion point 3 : Dmg MH and sustain OH, or combination?
Discussion point 4 : LS + LOH, or dual LS?

So, that's it! That's my gearing philosophy, and overall budgeting. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'd especially love to hear how some guys are managing to do MP10 on even smaller budgets. Again, I am very far from knowing it all and will be the first to admit that. This setup will do MP8 fairly comfortably (although, as I have found out recently with some very new lvl 60's - you DO kinda have to know what you're doing...=)), and MP9-10 with the right group.

Let the discussions begin!
Edited by Silver32#1142 on 1/16/2013 3:43 PM PST
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I am posting to keep track of this thread. I am very interested in hearing the various philosophies, as while I have read many of the threads here and learned a lot, I have reached a point where I feel I am struggling with upgrades and not sure what is the best route to take or why, because a lot of the time I am getting very different advice from different people. I want to make the best choices for my own play style. I am set for low MPs right now, but looking forward to slowly obtaining better gear for higher MPs or mid-range MPs where I don't die so often (I can walk around in MP4-5 solo or with my husband, but in larger groups I start dying a lot).

Anyway, very interested in seeing the outcomes of this discussion.
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I think the reason most of us don't respond to every thread is because we've probably said it over a 100 times. The information can easily be found and utilized if they took 30 mins to read. It goes back to the saying "You can give a fish to a man and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish and he will eat forever". Information is laid out, if you take 30 mins to read it, ultimately you can't be helped. /rant off

Back on topic.

My philosophy is to build a balanced toon that will SURVIVE any mp level well being able to farm lower mp levels efficiently.

My gearing choice high CC/IAS over high CC/CD. Why? In >1.06 the majority of your eDPS came from your cyclones, not FoT. Proven by the sw explosion that everyone's gained light on lately. Another reason, LS has a delay of about .5 secs(guesstimate) where as LOH procs instantly. By attacking faster, you heal faster. Only common sense.

Mantra Spamming. We need spirit and the only way to gain it is by attacking faster. I calculated at 2.2aps, you're able to spam mantras before they drop. With 1.07 around the corner and buffs being applied to attacks like wol and cyclone strike, we're definitely going to need gain spirit faster.

Stat allocation:
http://www.d3rmt.com/guides/diablo-3-item-stat-maximum-values/
That guide displays maximum stat value of each piece. If you gear correctly from the beginning, whether it's 20k dps or 200k dps. By building a balanced toon, every time you upgrade a new piece, you'll be more likely to wait for a large upgrade instead of settling for small upgrades. Saves ya money.

Stats desired:
43k+ hp /w gem in helm
650 reist
1000+ vit
4500 armor
2.0+ APS
3.0 LS + some form of loh (depending on dps)

These are the minimum values I search for when building a set.

Chest -
Since chest are able to roll up to 300 Vit, this would be the piece to stack Vit on.

min stat: 130dex/190vit/3 socket / single resist of at least 40.

Endgame choice would be Inna's Vast Expanse. 250vit/10+life/6 MR. I would pay nicely for that extra 1 percent.

Pants:
Another slot you that rolls 300 Vit/ double resist.

Personal Choice: Inna's Temperance - It's just too good to pass up. 12MS/9ias/2 os/dex..
150+vitality
Rare: 120dex/150vit/2os/70 total resist

Helmet -
Inna's Radiance - Dirt cheap with 4 guaranteed useful rolls. dex/crit/os/vit

min stat: 150dex/150+ vit/ single res/5.5+cc
min stat:150dex/150vit/40 single res/60 all res/5.5+CC

Belt:
Belts are a great place to stack your ehp. Rares can roll high vit, double res, life percentage, armor/pickup radius(highly underrated stat)

rare min stat: 100dex/100vit/40single res/50ra/ PR(if possible)
leg min stat: witching hour 40dex/8ias/40cd/40single res/70 vit

Amulet:
This slot rolls maxmum CD/CC/IAS.. However the max rolls of CD/CC would offer more damage then 9ias. Being that monks are crit dependant, it's best to maximize your damage modifiers here

min stat: 80dex/80vit/8.5CC/50CD/ 40+single res(if affordable)

Rings:
Rolls 6CC, 50CD and 9IAS. Since the stats are capped at this slot, I typically maximize IAS/CC on this slot. Your pDPS will be lower compared to a 50CD roll but as stated above, we need to cast our attacks fast for mulitple reasons.

min stats: 7ias/4CC/40dex/50vit/40+ single res
leg: budget builds get cheapy 9ias/40+single res/80dex/50vit. They cost 4 million for a nat's 2 piece. You're already getting 1.0+ crit above the max roll of a rare ring. Looking for a 9ias/6CC ring is going to way over 4m.

Bracers:
Stack up on your EHP here. There are only 2 offensive stats you need out of 6, dex and CC. High possibility for rolling double resist/vit here.

min stat: 100dex/80vit/90+ total res/5.0+CC

Gloves:
This is a DPS slot. Finding resist/vit are extremely expensive in this slot.

Budget Min stat: 8CC/7ias/100dex/50 single resist/ vit if possible
Higher tier: 8cc/9ias/30CD/150dex/45 single resist

Boots:

Budget: Nat's Bloody Footprints: >100 dex/50+ single resist or 80+ vit roll (50 resist roll are like 2m)
Rares: 220dex/80 Vit/100 total resist/ movement speed(if affordable)
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Haha, I was the one who said Unity wasnt that good. But it was meant for that OP only. He could afford 5 +58 gems (about 150M on current prices) on his armor, so I assumed he was loaded.

Once you have about 100+ M budget, Unity isnt that good an option, because "standard" unity only has avg dmg and 4.5 cc dmg modifier, hardly impressive, Yes, it has higher dex and 200-250 Loh, but that is just icing on the cake. My theory is you could sacrifice 50-70 dex and get IAS along with 1 sec resist AND maybe keep that LoH if you are lucky.

Though I did state that was not a priority to upgrade as Unity's are actually quite solid, but Unity's with IAS/CD to make it perfect are very expensive.

Weapons
I am not too sure how you gear with a budget of 2-3M for both weapons, but I think you are doing impressively enough.

Regarding LS,OS,75CD AND decent stats (100+ dex/vit added), those arent as expensive as you think if you look properly, there are plenty around with a buyout of 20+M if you take an axe (1.3) and go for lower dps 800-825, I have been flipping weapons like this around and I have gotten plenty with about 5-10 M on BID because no one is competing with me.

I then flip then around for about 20+M, and even that takes about 12 hours to sell. Obviously, if you are going the LS route, weapon speed matters less and can be cheaper to get slower weapons. Swords/daggers/fists are usually ridiculously overpriced at 200M+ for the same stats.

Rings
Many tend to disagree stacking defensive modifiers here, but when you are on a budget, this can actually be the cheapest place to get those. Inna's set has very poor resistance, and we need a place we can pick it up, and I think when you are on a limited budget, at least pick up resistance on this slot, until you can afford some the really high-end trifectas.

For me, my ring slots provide up to 200+ resist in total, a massive sum, without them, my AR would be around 500 only. But I still can have high avg dmg AND IAS and decent CC and stats on those so my DPS wont be affected. Both of those rings cost me a total of 80M, and A LONG TIME of searching the AH. My rare ring is really RARE, stats like that dont come along often. Its not about the price, but about the time searching.

I understand most ppl dislike the AH, but I am the opposite, my low elite count is due to me being unable to bring myself to do more then 1-2 runs per day. I like to spent my time between forums/AH and my work.

AH Tips

People tend to complain that everything on the AH is overpriced, I would disagree, in fact there are plenty of bargains around. If you shop properly, when you upgrade your gear, you can actually even made a profit. I recently upgraded my 2 weapons for a cost of about 200M for both (a bargain IMO), while I sold my both old weapons to fund it (150M), previous cost of those weapons? 80M.

If you look for a bargain, you can sell it in the future for profit, helps massively in upgrading.

Another key point to actually lower your search perimeters, Lets say I am looking for gloves with 250 dex, 9cc,9 IAS, if you search with those perimeters, you are going to come up with 500M gloves and complain that AH is overpriced. Lower your search to like 150 dex, 7cc 7ias and shift through it manually.

You might even gain bargains, as some gloves with "defects", such as 250 dex, 9cc, "7ias" might be selling for cheap, or might have vit/resist.

Expand your horizons and be surprised! yes this is coming from an AH3 player.
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My philosophy is copy and paste: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7415793376
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great post man, useful information for a new monk
Edited by cornelius#1314 on 1/16/2013 5:49 PM PST
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01/16/2013 03:16 PMPosted by Silver32
Vile Wards with 180-200 dex, 40 chosen resist, no vit, for like 2-4 mil;


Why the Vile wards? in my opinion, if you are not buying those with 240+ dex, they are not worth the slot, there are plenty of rares, even cheaper, with double resist, 180 dex, 80 vit, maybe some life% and armor (but price goes little higher), you will have more vit, for the same price, but maybe im missing something.
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01/16/2013 11:51 PMPosted by Elladan
Why the Vile wards? in my opinion, if you are not buying those with 240+ dex, they are not worth the slot, there are plenty of rares, even cheaper, with double resist, 180 dex, 80 vit, maybe some life% and armor (but price goes little higher), you will have more vit, for the same price, but maybe im missing something.

I completely agree with you about the shoulders. The best combination of stats are the ones that you listed in your post. VWs can't give you that because they force you to get ~300 LPS in place of one of those slots. A rare can often be around 1/3 the price of a vile ward with equivalent EHP stats. With that said, the VWs that I am using is acually a regretful purchase on my part because it only represented a small DPS/EHP from the rare that it replaced, but I didn't want to turn around and sell it at the time of purchase. I think I've grown to like the LPS that it offers, but I think I can also do without it if I found a rare with the combination of stats listed earlier.

I also disagree with OP in the idea of looking for VWs without vit. This is a pure EHP slot with no options for DPS stats outside of dex. I believe that a decent vit roll is crucial in this slot... unless you can get a high dex roll (>240, as the poster mentions), and then use open sockets in chest & pants to compensate for lack of vit. For 2-4 mil, you might be able to find a rare with the stats mentioned in the post (without life%).

I have some other things to note about the other slots (especially in addressing the point you made about my philosophical stance of keeping EHP stats out of jewellery), but I'll put them in a separate post later.
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Hey guys,

- Bracers : Dex, 4.5 crit at least, vit or life%, armor and/or strength. First discussion point. : I remember someone (I think it was Demiwraith, but it could have been Shade...almost certain it was one of the two) stating that Strongarms were some of the worst bracers you could get. I remember thinking...."not so sure about that!" if you're on a budget. I think they're actually pretty good! If the guy has more money, it's pretty easy to get ones with more EHP (higher vit numbers), but I also try to get either strength or armor there. Cost : Again, depends on budget.


Again, that was me, but you cant take my words out of context, I was probably offering advice to a particular person with higher levels of gear. Strongarm Bracers are good for a budget monk, but they are terrible for a monk with about 50M-100M to spend, or one more focused on DPS.

When you have 5-20M, it is logical to forgo dps, settling instead on 50k dps and focus more on EHP and sustain (which is easily available on rares). But when you have 100M and are trying to push for 80k dps, problems come in.

You have to get stuff like WH/Inna's set/high dps gloves/rings/ammies, places where you used to stack EHP. In my experience, monks like that usually have trouble keeping their vit up, most end up with 30k HP WITH PURPLE GEM in helm.

Strongarm doesnt help in this case, the 8% isnt useful when you have low vit, it is worth about 64 vit when you have like 800 vit. and the 200 armor isnt spectacular.

So a cheap strongarm that rolls Sec resist is the equivalent of a 150 dex, 60 vit, 60 sec resist 4.5 cc bracer. Not too shabby for a budget, but for someone patient and willing to spend 5M on this slot, it becomes less optimum. 220 dex 60 vit versions are even worst.

Monks with 50-100M(total) should always go for a 140 dex/vit 45 sec resist 5 cc bracer instead. It is the last cheap tier, before you push for a high stat double resist BIS bracer that can cost up to a 100M+.
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I know Nameless won't be too keen on using rings for EHP, but with Inna's Pants, if you want to maintain 40K life without spending too much...=) 3-4 mil usually


Many tend to disagree stacking defensive modifiers here, but when you are on a budget, this can actually be the cheapest place to get those. Inna's set has very poor resistance, and we need a place we can pick it up, and I think when you are on a limited budget, at least pick up resistance on this slot, until you can afford some the really high-end trifectas.

For me, my ring slots provide up to 200+ resist in total, a massive sum, without them, my AR would be around 500 only. But I still can have high avg dmg AND IAS and decent CC and stats on those so my DPS wont be affected. Both of those rings cost me a total of 80M, and A LONG TIME of searching the AH. My rare ring is really RARE, stats like that dont come along often. Its not about the price, but about the time searching.

I bring these two posts together to make a point in terms of contrasting approaches between two different philosophies. IMO, 80M over two slots does not constitute budget purposes - which is what the OP is getting at with a 50M-100M budget. Heck, my whole monk is probably worth just around 80M ATM including gems. And the reason Shade's rings cost this much is that he is putting important EHP stats in a DPS slot AND doing what he can to maintain / improve DPS. Drop the DPS requirements, and you can get super cheap rings but they'd be cheap because they are worthless and you wouldn't get decent overall DPS. And IMO, having a 4-piece Inna's set that gives you low DPS and decent EHP is not a smart way to go because the 4 piece bonus is hardly worth that kind of DPS sacrifice (especially with the looming snapshot nerf to SW). I lean towards higher DPS, good survivability without 4 piece inna bonus but that's just me as that gives me a lot more flexibility when it comes to builds and such. Learning to play without the SW bonus may require some getting used to for some, but spirit management is part of the game for monks and it could provide some good training for other builds down the road, especially after 1.0.7 drops.

The other thing I want to get at is about my views on how to use jewellery. Jewellery slots are DPS slots because the rares naturally roll DPS stats that EHP slots normally wouldn't get. So if you are gearing up, you want to maximize on DPS here, assuming that EHP has already been taken care of elsewhere (on your armor pieces).

Putting EHP stats on DPS slots should only become necessary when you have glassy core pieces, such as the Inna's set and should not come at the expense of DPS in these particular slots. But if you don't get too fancy with your core pieces and get well rolled rares to fulfill EHP requirements in many/most slots (such as chest, shoulders and belt), then you shouldn't be required to put EHP stats in DPS slots. I think that's the point that I tried to make in my gearing guide, not that I am 100% philosophically opposed to putting EHP stats in DPS slots at all times. In fact, I think I am at closing in on a point of having to put EHP on jewellery to set myself up for some nice glassy core pieces that will provide a significant boost. I don't have the gold for that now, but it's on my shopping list.

Anyway, I hope you find this helpful so far. I might put in a post or two more down the road about some other topics. But for the most part, I think my gearing philosophies line up with Scrapz' post for the most part.
Edited by Nameless#1537 on 1/17/2013 4:05 AM PST
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My rings arent cheap because they actually contain high dps along with high resists, but they are worth every gold spent and would easily sell for 120M(or even more) for both if I sell them.

Rings that are actually an upgrade on mine (dps-wise) are extremely expensive, costing up to 250M and above.

1. Nats ring - I ran the numbers, if I dropped the avg dmg for cc, anything below 4cc would be a dps loss, even a 6 cc ring would only represent a 4k dps increase, hardly worth it.

That means to actually have a meaningful increase I would have to maintain avg dmg, AND get 4CC for a 8k dmg boost, and the cheapest on AH right now (with 0 defensive stats) would cost 400M.

So I would have to trade 400M, 56k ehp loss from 100 AR against 8k dps. Hardly worth it IMO.

2. Rare ring - Same situation, the only way a ring would beat my dps-wise would either be a classic well rolled trifecta with almost perfect stats, or one with high avg dmg and IAS matching mine, with even higher CC. AND roll 50 dex to at least match mine

Guess how much those costs? Yes, 250M and above. For a measly 4k dps increase. Not to mention the 55k EHP loss.

Again, 250M+55k EHP in return for about 5k dps increase.

The point is, when you are building a monk, you need to balance both EHP AND DPS together. Mine purchases represent probably the best stat-per-gold purchase for this level of dps and ehp. Gives both EHP and DPS in 1 slot.

I understand that this does not work when considering BIS jewelry, but I am still yet to reach that level of gearing.

Again it comes down to gearing philosophy, different players have different requirements of their characters, some are focused on niche builds, some want high dps over anything. I myself tend to focus more on EHP while slowly upgrading my DPS through bargain purchases I know I can flip for a profit when I do not need it anymore.
Edited by Shade#6905 on 1/17/2013 4:21 AM PST
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01/17/2013 04:19 AMPosted by Shade
Nats ring - I ran the numbers, if I dropped the avg dmg for cc, anything below 4cc would be a dps loss, even a 6 cc ring would only represent a 4k dps increase, hardly worth it.


on paper that is true, but dps of monk scales with crit if you are using SW:cyclone, so this 4k dps increase would be much biger in real dps, thanks to greater amount of cyclones.
Edited by Elladan#2929 on 1/17/2013 4:41 AM PST
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And the reason Shade's rings cost this much is that he is putting important EHP stats in a DPS slot AND doing what he can to maintain / improve DPS. Drop the DPS requirements, and you can get super cheap rings but they'd be cheap because they are worthless and you wouldn't get decent overall DPS.


My rings arent cheap because they actually contain high dps along with high resists, but they are worth every gold spent and would easily sell for 120M(or even more) for both if I sell them.

Rings that are actually an upgrade on mine (dps-wise) are extremely expensive, costing up to 250M and above.

As you can see, I don't disagree with you about the value of your rings - in fact, I think they are quite awesome and you did very well to get them. My point is that the cost of your rings would be out of range for the purposes of the OP, which is to gear out a full monk between 50M and 100M.

My point is that EHP on DPS slots (without sacrifice to DPS) is not worth it unless you have good enough core pieces (DPS wise) to support that decision (ie. the offense-focused glassy pieces such as the Inna's sets, witching hour, etc). Both of those types of pieces (good glassy core pieces and DPS/EHP jewellery) are expensive and unaffordable for budget monks.

01/17/2013 04:19 AMPosted by Shade
I myself tend to focus more on EHP while slowly upgrading my DPS through bargain purchases I know I can flip for a profit when I do not need it anymore.

Yes. I think that we share this gearing philosophy (along with Scrapz in his earlier post). It's all about balance, and not going glass cannon.
Edited by Nameless#1537 on 1/17/2013 5:07 AM PST
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Great thread. I geared up using Nameless' and Piffle's threads (~11m, 80k DPS, 294k eHP). I agree with a lot of what's been said here and I think the jewelry discussion really comes down to where you are at. I went offensive with mine, but now I'm looking to add some resist if I can find a deal, which brings me to what I think needs to be discussed here.

It's important to know the AH. Unless you are playing with only found gear, you should know what a good roll is for each slot, and what is expensive at which slot. Most people aren't gearing up with a ton of gold at once. This means you'll be upgrading slots to fit in with your overall gear. You need to know where you can stack DPS or mitigation so you don't get ripped off. This will also help because you'll be buying gear that you can flip later if you happen to get a good deal.

This also means that while building up, you need to be flexible. It's great that amulets can roll high CD, but since I couldn't find any I could afford with CC + CD, I skipped CD in favor of average damage (thanks Piffle). I tried using some of Piffle's filters (and they are a great start), but for some slots, I got great deals by lowering one or two categories only to make up for it somewhere else (either on the same piece or somewhere else).

Again, most of this advice is for those on tight budgets. I think I've managed about 10m in drops in the time I've played, so I never got to shop around with a huge budget for any pieces. If you get a big drop, you should hold out for great rolls on great pieces. Until then, be smart and flexible.
Edited by prodystopian#1605 on 1/17/2013 6:36 AM PST
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Perfect. This is EXACTLY the kind of exchange I had in mind. =)

I completely agree with you about the shoulders. The best combination of stats are the ones that you listed in your post. VWs can't give you that because they force you to get ~300 LPS in place of one of those slots. A rare can often be around 1/3 the price of a vile ward with equivalent EHP stats. With that said, the VWs that I am using is acually a regretful purchase on my part because it only represented a small DPS/EHP from the rare that it replaced, but I didn't want to turn around and sell it at the time of purchase. I think I've grown to like the LPS that it offers, but I think I can also do without it if I found a rare with the combination of stats listed earlier.


Good point. I remember searching for rares in the past - without much success - that had equivalent EHP stats to a good Vile Ward, and kinda came up short. I revisited rares this morning before posting this, and you are correct - I found a pair of rares with 150 dex, 70 vit, 70 AR, 50 Cold Res (picked a res arbitrarily) and about 500 total armor for like 500K on bid (but no one was bidding, 12h left). So, that's definitely something I'll have to revisit for more budget monks. (See? That's EXACTLY the kind of thing I was hoping to (re-?)learn from this thread.) The only problem is, I find it really difficult to get to my target 5K armor without VW's. But I'll crunch some numbers.

And IMO, having a 4-piece Inna's set that gives you low DPS and decent EHP is not a smart way to go because the 4 piece bonus is hardly worth that kind of DPS sacrifice (especially with the looming snapshot nerf to SW).


Nameless, wholeheartedly concur. I don't know how many guys whose Inna's belt I had to replace for a solid EHP piece. For the record, I never have, and likely never will, endorse a 4-piece Inna's set. I think only the top Inna's chest pieces are worth more than a very good rare with 250+ vit (and the Inna's chest with those numbers, although it will have the life%, won't have resists), and if your EHP setup is already accommodating the loss of the EHP normally present in a belt, well....you'd be far better off with a decent Witching. But still, to get back on topic - even losing the considerable EHP potential of pants alone, makes it difficult to totally make up EHP without resorting in SOME way, as minimal as it is, to rings.

I myself tend to focus more on EHP while slowly upgrading my DPS through bargain purchases I know I can flip for a profit when I do not need it anymore.


We most totally agree. And to answer someone else's question, THAT is precisely why I choose not to spend a very big portion of my budget on weapons. (As per Nameless, I also explicitly try to avoid having EHP stats on my weaps, to avoid having to depend on that.) If you look at my profile for the next little while, you'll see two weapons that I paid a combined total of 1.2 mil for. The sword was the one I referred to earlier, and I paid a hair over 200K for that, on bid (blew my mind). The hyper-sustain fist, I paid 1 mil on bid for as well (nobody else bid). Sure, those weapons gave me a decrease in DPS - about 4K - but for the price, it still goes to show that you can reach 100K DPS on some pretty cheap weapons. (Again, as per Nameless.) I'll often gear to make very sure the EHP is there, and then spend the rest on weapons - because I know I can get decent DPS ones for cheap. Thoughts?

01/16/2013 04:00 PMPosted by scrapz
leg: budget builds get cheapy 9ias/40+single res/80dex/50vit. They cost 4 million for a nat's 2 piece


Interesting. I was wondering what you meant, and so I searched on ah for Nat's boots with just 40 of a given resist, and found 90-ish dex ones for, sure enough, 2 mil buyout, and some 1 mil bid with no bids. OK, fair enough. But I looked for rings without avg dmg with your stats above, and none were below 5 mil. Either way, we're splitting hairs talking 4 mil or 6 mil for an entry-level Nat's set, I know. But, for someone on a budget, those two mil matter. =)

However, I still believe that if you're on a lower budget like that, a pair of rare boots with MS, 200-ish dex, vit and a single resist, paired with a rare ring with avg dmg, dex, 4 crit chc, IAS and a resist as well, will come out to the same price as a very entry-level Nat's 2 piece, but provide higher DPS, for roughly the same EHP.

EDIT : I actually put a lot of the above discussion to good use. My profile currently shows boots I bought for 400K, a MH ring I already had in my inventory (paid 4 mil for it a while back), bracers I bought for 2 mil and a chest I bought for 2 mil (impatient, so went for buyout - there really was not much on ah at that time, though). DPS is still floating above 100K - but that's with 100% gems and paragon 25. =) I also have a pair of rare shoulders on bid. Comparable stats to the VW's but 170 dex, about 60 vit as I recall, 70/50 resists ish, and 250 armor - but like 240 strength. =) All in all, with those, my resists will be very close to 600, my life pretty close to 40K - but my armor will have dropped to 4.6K. I'll use the pieces (including weapons) to make a better giveaway set.
Edited by Silver32#1142 on 1/17/2013 10:37 AM PST
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01/16/2013 04:00 PMPosted by scrapz
I think the reason most of us don't respond to every thread is because we've probably said it over a 100 times. The information can easily be found and utilized if they took 30 mins to read. It goes back to the saying "You can give a fish to a man and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish and he will eat forever". Information is laid out, if you take 30 mins to read it, ultimately you can't be helped. /rant off

Heh. Yes. This was the entire reason I wrote my guide, because I got tired of saying the same thing over and over again in 87 different threads each day. But you'd be surprised how many people still friend me in-game asking for gearing advice. I certainly don't mind helping people in-game, but I wish they would realize that all I am doing is following the advice laid out in my guide.

/rantoff

As for the OP ...

I really think you can gear successfully in a number of different ways. When you look at how Nameless, Scrapz, or I go about building our own budget sets, you see there are slight differences. Part of this is a different philosophy on what stats should go where, but part of it is also a different frame of mind for what is necessary to be successful.

Back before 1.04 (I think that was the right patch?) that saw the explosion of legendary/set pieces and their subsequent cratering in price, I went through Act 3 Inferno with 60-75k dps and no sustain. Sometimes it sucked. Sometimes I had to kite while managing cooldowns. But I did it, and fairly successfully I think.

When MP came out, I could easily handle 1-2 with the same setup. MP 3 obviously was pretty similar to the pre-patch Inferno and so, again, I sometimes had to do the cooldown dance.

Eventually I was able to afford some lifesteal weapons, and, admittedly, the difference is pretty noticeable. But you'll still see that I don't have any LoH and just one LS weapon. This might have to change when 1.07 comes out, as I do currently snapshot with a 5+ LS Skorn (though apparently snapshot is still capturing LS), and who knows whether just the LS on my OH will be enough.

Hm, I'm rambling. Anyway - part of the reason why you see different stat placement from different people like Scrapz, etc is because they are simply aiming for different end stats. I recall an interesting 'conversation' Scrapz and I once had about the merits of two different sets we had built. You could tell that he thought mine needed more EH, and I thought his needed more DPS. We had simply built our sets with different end stat allocations in mind.

When I build sets these days (or, back when I used to, before the Holiday spirit ruined my market!), I'd aim for 400k EH unbuffed, a single LS weapon, and as much dps as possible. But that was as much a business opportunity for me as it was anything else, and I felt like those #s were rather eye-catching, so that's what I aimed for. I was always amazed at the sets that Mooshmellow was able to put together (they were usually like 140+ dps).

Well, anyway, this seems like a long rambling post that isn't necessarily on topic, ha!
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Posting for tracking purposes- great post so far
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01/16/2013 03:29 PMPosted by Sinafae
I am posting to keep track of this thread.


How does posting in this thread help you keep track of it? Serious question.
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What MP can your monk handle Silver?
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In my full setup (don't look at my gear now, it's a combination), MP8 solo is my comfort zone. I can do 9. I've tried MP10 before - with the right group, it's definitely possible, but not for ubers.
Edited by Silver32#1142 on 1/17/2013 5:00 PM PST
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