Diablo® III

Gearing Philosophies

Not an AH user, but I strongly approve this thread!
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01/19/2013 11:29 PMPosted by Piffle
I am a little bit uh ... partied ... can you explain what you numbers mean in the spreadsheet?


The first box:
For 100K, the best weapon you can get with LS and a socket for 100K is 935 DPS. The best weapon you can get with CD is 966 DPS with 60% CD.

For 250K, the best weapon you can get with LS and a socket for 100K is 944 DPS. The best weapon you can get with CD is 966 DPS with 60% CD.
etc.

Third box in the top row:
For 100K, the best weapon you can get with at least 200 Dex and LS is 808 DPS. The best weapon you can get with CD is 845 DPS with 64% CD.

For 250K, the best weapon you can get with at least 200 Dex and LS is 819 DPS. The best weapon you can get with CD is 845 DPS with 64% CD.
etc.

01/19/2013 11:29 PMPosted by Piffle
edit: I'd also like to point out that the "cost" of gems from the AH is inflated, as you can save several hundred thousand gold by combing yourself.


Last I checked, star gems are running reasonably close in price to what it costs to buy all the flawless square gems and tomes and craft. I think you can save maybe 10% on the price by crafting yourself. 1M gold instead of 1.1M gold. I'm using 1M gold as my price point for comparisons.

You shouldn't assume that you don't have to buy the components or that if you already have a gem that it is "free" though. If you don't have any gems, the cost of the gem is what the market says it is. If you do have gems, the cost is what you could have gotten for selling it if you went with a CD weapon.

(Strictly speaking, since there's a fee on the auction house, if you already have a gem the opportunity cost might better expressed as 85% of the current gem price, since you may want to buy it back later. You might not like "storing" your gem in the AH and gambling that prices of gems won't go up, but I'd say that by holding onto the gem you don't need, you're effectively gambling that they will go up. And at a cost of a less effective Monk).

Anyway, I can't really worry too much about what the "correct" price of gems is. It is what it is, and it should theoretically be reflected in the prices in other aspects of the market, like CD weapons. The market should lower the value CD weapons when gem prices come down. At least it should, in theory. But as I've been noticing, the market is pretty irratinal about these things.

(EDIT: re-linking spreadshet for convenience: http://i48.tinypic.com/2lvi91v.jpg )

(Second Edit: I think I transposed the 100K and 250K records for the 100Dex,LS when I organized the spreadsheet. The numbers are still correct for the relative comparisons, though)
Edited by Demiwraith#1534 on 1/20/2013 9:28 AM PST
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Now is not a good time for buying weapons. I got both of mine for under 40 mill. Now I could probably get double or more for them. Replacing either of them has become the 200mill quest.

I really want a LS EF with 95%+ CD or socket but it ain't happening anytime soon unless I win the D3 lottery (again).
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Wraith,

While I don't disagree with what you're saying (especially when planning for a budget set), I think there's another factor which you might not have fully taken into consideration : availability.

I believe your logic was sound and that I could probably save some money on entry-level OH weapons by going the innate crit route. I understand that our weapon selection criteria differs somewhat, but if one gears as I usually do - which is, hard-hitting MH (which implies stacking crit here, therefore requiring a socket) and a sustain OH -, I ran into a bit of a selection problem when using innate crit! (Note that I'm only talking about the OH here - as mentioned, I like my MH's to have both innate crit and socket, cuz that's where I stack my dmg.)

At three intervals in the last 36 hours, I went on the ah specifically to search for an OH with the following parameters :

Fist or sword
Dex (Empty)
LOH (500)
LS (Empty)
Socket

I usually came up with anywhere between 3 to 5 pages of listings. When replacing socket with innate crit of 70, I got - 3 to 5 WEAPONS. =) So, I lowered my criteria to innate crit of 60 - not much better, usually one or two more showed up.

Anyway, just pointing that out. I still believe that your philosophy has merit, and I will try that when selecting weapons for my next cheap giveaway set (after the one I'm currently advertising just now).

Great discussion!
Edited by Silver32#1142 on 1/20/2013 12:07 PM PST
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Availablity is often an issue. When you're looking for 6 specific affixes, you do start to limit the market you can hit. When you require above avereage rolls on some of the affixes (70% CD, 500 LoH, damage) the market gets smaller. And when you look only at two types of weaons (swords and fists) the market can really start to vanish. One of the advantages of sockets is that you can't get a bad roll. That, and people like to sell weapons with them, because they command a premium. (The fact that CD weapons are undervalued means that people are less likely to want to sell them.) So you are very much correct here: the market with sockets is much larger and it is possible that an equivalent CD weapon doesn't even exist.

Needing 500+ LoH and LS on a weapon is a pretty hefty requirment, so you may find that there just isn't a CD weapon in your exact niche. When there is a CD weapon, though, it's often cheaper than the gem in your weapon alone.

As an example, there is a 248 Dex, 55% CD, 1048 DPS, 2.8% LS weapon on the market right now. It's buyout price is 19M with less than 2h left. Looks like it's not selling. It will probably wind up selling for even less eventually. It represents (I think) a 3% DPS boost for you and costs about 10M less than the gem in your weapon alone. So you'd make 10M and 3% DPS switching to that weapon, (Not that you necessarily want to give up your LoH for 10m and 3% DPS boost. Honestly, I probably wouldn't. But the option is there).

Anyway, my enitre point with all this is: people don't check the alternative market to sockets (getting the stats natively on the gear) nearly enough. And when they do, they don't take in the account that the gem that they're using is usually costing them a significant amount of money that might be more effficiently used elsewhere. Under 100K DPS, I feel that this is especially true. That's pretty much all I wanted to get out there.
Edited by Demiwraith#1534 on 1/20/2013 2:20 PM PST
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01/20/2013 02:19 PMPosted by Demiwraith
(The fact that CD weapons are undervalued means that people are less likely to want to sell them.)


Good point, hadn't thought of that.
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01/19/2013 11:29 PMPosted by Piffle
edit: I'd also like to point out that the "cost" of gems from the AH is inflated, as you can save several hundred thousand gold by combing yourself.


Last I checked, star gems are running reasonably close in price to what it costs to buy all the flawless square gems and tomes and craft. I think you can save maybe 10% on the price by crafting yourself. 1M gold instead of 1.1M gold. I'm using 1M gold as my price point for comparisons.

You shouldn't assume that you don't have to buy the components or that if you already have a gem that it is "free" though. If you don't have any gems, the cost of the gem is what the market says it is. If you do have gems, the cost is what you could have gotten for selling it if you went with a CD weapon.

Flawless Square Emeralds are currently 11,111. Tomes of Secret are currently 1686. If you simply bought all your mats from the AH and combined them to a 100% CD gem it would cost - 26,249,785. Radiant Star Emeralds are currently 30,726,038.

If you bought all the materials and combined to just Star gems, it would cost 891,041. These are currently going for 1,015,510.

Flawless Star gems would cost 2,793,355 to create, but are going for 3,300,000. Perfect Star gems would cost 8,605,355 to create, but are going for 10,021,559.

Gems are always to cheaper to craft yourself than to buy from the AH. Well, unless people are duping them. :P

I am a little bit uh ... partied ... can you explain what you numbers mean in the spreadsheet?


The first box:
For 100K, the best weapon you can get with LS and a socket for 100K is 935 DPS. The best weapon you can get with CD is 966 DPS with 60% CD.

For 250K, the best weapon you can get with LS and a socket for 100K is 944 DPS. The best weapon you can get with CD is 966 DPS with 60% CD.
etc.

Third box in the top row:
For 100K, the best weapon you can get with at least 200 Dex and LS is 808 DPS. The best weapon you can get with CD is 845 DPS with 64% CD.

For 250K, the best weapon you can get with at least 200 Dex and LS is 819 DPS. The best weapon you can get with CD is 845 DPS with 64% CD.
etc.

Hm. I guess I see what you're saying, but I think your comparison is incomplete. When I look for weapons, I always include CD and a socket. Your comparison doesn't factor this in, you're simply comparing the price of a socket vs CD. But this doesn't tell the whole story. The reason that weapons with native CD and no socket were not DPS upgrades for either of my sets is because CD + socket beats slightly higher dps + native CD.

Your spreadsheet doesn't take this into account.
Edited by Piffle#1874 on 1/21/2013 11:50 AM PST
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Dang.

What he said.

(All of them)

Hoping all these returning folks will waste productive employer time reading this in the AM.
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