Diablo® III

Solving the CM Wizard Pigeonhole Problem

The problem with Wizards right now is both simple and complex. It is simple in that there is a very central problem with wizard defensive skills. It is complex in that Critical Mass makes any attempt at balance either overpowering or crippling.

The problem is cooldowns.

Without Critical Mass, defensive skills' cooldowns are too long. To be safe in high MP, you would have to carry at least 2 defensive active skills, or maybe 3 unless you are supremely geared.

With Critical Mass, defensive skills potentially have almost no cooldown at all, allowing infinite freeze/teleport/damage buffer.

So I present an elegant 4-part solution:
1. Drastically reduce cooldowns on Frost Nova, Diamond Skin, Slow Time, Teleport, Wave of Force, and Mirror Image.
2. Let Diamond Skin and Mirror Image cooldowns only start ticking AFTER the effects wear off.
3. Let each skill on cooldown benefit from at most 2 Critical Mass ticks per cooldown cycle.
4. Increase Evocation effect to 25%

Details:
Frost Nova:
-reduce cooldown to 6 seconds
-reduce Cold Snap cooldown to 4 seconds

Diamond Skin:
-Does not expire due to time
-reduce cooldown to 6 seconds
-Crystal Shell triples amount absorbed, but increases cooldown to 8 seconds
-Enduring Skin increases armor/resists by 10% while Diamond Skin is active
-Diamond Shards does double the amount of damage and twice the range

Slow Time:
-Reduce cooldown to 8 seconds
-Perpetuity reduces cooldown to 6 seconds

Teleport:
-Reduce cooldown to 6 seconds
-Wormhole cooldown reduced to 8 seconds

Wave of Force:
-Reduce cooldown to 7 seconds
-Force Affinity reduces cooldown to 5 seconds

Explosive Blast:
-Reduce cooldown to 4 seconds

Mirror Image:
-Reduce cooldown to 5 seconds

Any comments?
Edited by necropuddi#1442 on 1/19/2013 8:00 AM PST
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Bump
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Solid analysis and a decent solution, i feel. Overall cooldowns definitely need to come down if Critical Mass is going to be brought down to mortal levels. I'm not sure the concept of limiting Critical Mass to a particular number of procs is in any way elegant, unfortunately, unless the particular number is incredibly simple - ie. 1. But that would only make sense if the cooldown reduction was something like 33% instead of 1 second. Hey, there's another idea.

I do particularly like your idea to have the cooldown of Diamond Skin and Mirror Images start refreshing after the effects wear off. This is something i often don't like in games, eg. Borderlands 2, because i don't like having my power limited so definitively... however in this case it does seem a much more apt mechanic.

For reference, here is a similar thread i made on this topic with some other rather different ideas:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7200083110?page=1
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Sounds like you're assisting Blizzard in nerfing us. I understand what you are trying to do, but I don't like it. It would destroy the CM/WW Wizard build completely

How about thinking about buffing other spells either by dps or giving some of them better defensive runes.
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I agree with Aph on this one. There are lots of options here. Take the unused runes and remake them specifically to be useful without CM.

Change mirror skin on DS to a rune they reduces cooldown to 0 in return for using an attack turn to cast. Or maybe make it 6 second cooldown and 10 AP if you can't have a rune change the cooldown/attack turn functionality of a spell.

Lots of completely unused runes that could be available to adjust.
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So you want to invalidate thousands of people's gears that they played months to accumulate? That's not really building diversity because if you make CM wizard becomes useless, people will start to flock to the next best thing. There will always be a central build. When will it stop? Why stop at wizards? Start nerfing Barbs and DH as well for their ability to deal hundreds of thoudsands of damage. Even just by farming or PVP, CM wizards are no where near as powerful as the other classes, or even an archon with 600k of damage. They need to learn how to build diversity by buffing the other abilities, not nerfing what's popular.
Edited by Ricstar#1833 on 1/19/2013 4:08 AM PST
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yeah i'm also of the buff don't nurf idea. If there sia skill that is so powerful that you have to use it for a build, look at how you can make the other skills around it more powerful so that you will want to play an alternative build.

I think CM should be a difficult target to achieve making the awesome power of it well deserved, but making it less useful seems like a kick in the nuts. skills with cool downs are fine if you gear for it, look at the skills without cool down, how can we make them more usable? like creating a wizard that doesn't use any cooldown type skills but is also able to boast defensive buffs.

it's a very difficult situation to sort out correctly and with balance. I am against the nerf philosophy.

p.s
diamond skin with no expiration date and tripple the absorbtion? are you mad? thats incredibly over powering and the only reason your keeping a cool down now is for a single rune - shards, it's like you have made a single skill 2 separate ones now just for the sake of CM not being the spot light for that sort of build. It just doesn't sit right with me.
Edited by Amos#6777 on 1/19/2013 6:14 AM PST
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This is simply bad suggestions, others have pointed out the reasons why this is bad.
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bad idea is bad. sorry dude, only thing they can do to make cm wiz better is increase the proc chance of Crit mass on wicked wind like they had it before. just not as much as before.
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what IS the CM/WW build? I dont main a wizard, Im not familiar with the term.
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lol @ obvious rage troll, person who couldnt afford decent cm gear. do us a favor and leave,
people see wizards freezing everything and think its easy. Its not easy but rather VERY costly.

Let me take you back to the stage where BARBS had shields, and were tanks when inferno first came out. They had 15k dps whilst other classes had 50-80k dps.
Lets look at now, we are the barbs with shields. Where every single mp10 uber fight, i try to switch to build a little to do more damage and people with 80% cheaper gear then me tell me " dont bother your tank, your not dps"

I have seen videos of cm wiz's slaughter mp10 solo, insane dps. But these people MOSTLY spent at least a thousand dollars on their gear.
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01/18/2013 11:21 PMPosted by Aphraell
Sounds like you're assisting Blizzard in nerfing us. I understand what you are trying to do, but I don't like it. It would destroy the CM/WW Wizard build completely


I did not go through the numbers thoroughly where math is concerned, but I'm sure there is a point on the cooldowns where it would be as if there was no change for Critical Mass builds (or you can use Evocation to reach zero cooldown)

The point of this idea is to bring other wizards more on-par in terms of cooldowns. Instead of CM having no cooldown while everyone else have unworkable amounts of cooldown.

As for gear, again, if the numbers are done right, if you can zero cooldown with Wicked Wind, then nothing changes. Ideally, I would want my suggestion to mean no-change to CM builds, but reasonable cooldowns for everyone else so that we don't HAVE to run CM in every single build that wants to have a shot at high MP.

I don't think fixing other runes would help, unless you make them grossly overpowered. The problem with the Wizard is too much cooldown for mediocre effects.
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p.s
diamond skin with no expiration date and tripple the absorbtion? are you mad? thats incredibly over powering and the only reason your keeping a cool down now is for a single rune - shards, it's like you have made a single skill 2 separate ones now just for the sake of CM not being the spot light for that sort of build. It just doesn't sit right with me.


The cooldown would start AFTER it gets blown off. Think about what that means.


2. Let Diamond Skin and Mirror Image cooldowns only start ticking AFTER the effects wear off.
Edited by necropuddi#1442 on 1/19/2013 7:49 AM PST
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lol @ obvious rage troll, person who couldnt afford decent cm gear. do us a favor and leave,
people see wizards freezing everything and think its easy. Its not easy but rather VERY costly.

Let me take you back to the stage where BARBS had shields, and were tanks when inferno first came out. They had 15k dps whilst other classes had 50-80k dps.
Lets look at now, we are the barbs with shields. Where every single mp10 uber fight, i try to switch to build a little to do more damage and people with 80% cheaper gear then me tell me " dont bother your tank, your not dps"

I have seen videos of cm wiz's slaughter mp10 solo, insane dps. But these people MOSTLY spent at least a thousand dollars on their gear.


I've been playing CM Wizard since Energy Twister got rebuffed ages ago. Back then it was cool because few people knew about it. Now it's just mandatory. And no, it does not take much skill to play CM. I've been playing it for months, after the initial learning curve it's all the same. Don't get me wrong though, I still want it to be good, but I don't want the skills associated with it to be CM-exclusive just because they're total crap without cooldown reduction.

PS: I've been running 2.76/49.5CC with 5k armor and ~800 resists SNS. I don't claim to be elite but I am MP10 capable, so take your hat and put it on someone else.
Edited by necropuddi#1442 on 1/19/2013 7:44 AM PST
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01/19/2013 04:02 AMPosted by Ricstar
So you want to invalidate thousands of people's gears that they played months to accumulate? That's not really building diversity because if you make CM wizard becomes useless, people will start to flock to the next best thing. There will always be a central build. When will it stop? Why stop at wizards? Start nerfing Barbs and DH as well for their ability to deal hundreds of thoudsands of damage. Even just by farming or PVP, CM wizards are no where near as powerful as the other classes, or even an archon with 600k of damage. They need to learn how to build diversity by buffing the other abilities, not nerfing what's popular.


I want CM wizards to still be good. Let's get that out of the way. However, I don't want skills with cooldowns to be doomed to suck in all other builds because making them any better would make CM overpowered.

If anyone has ideas on how to alter the numbers so that CM wizards are still the same, but everyone else gets less cooldown, please correct me. I know I don't have the right numbers.
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cooldowns are lame anyway get rid of them all. meteor doesnt have cool down. u have mana u cast it unlimited. most spells are like this. only a few have cooldowns for some lame reason. most gimp wizzies defensibly.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 1/19/2013 8:05 AM PST
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^Too bad it can't happen =/ too many ppl will QQ
Edited by necropuddi#1442 on 1/19/2013 8:07 AM PST
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I don't like this idea. Crippling CM/WW after this long and this much gearing would be a huge kick in the sack to the majority of the Wizard community, with most Archon players even having a CM gear set for when they want to get out and play with friends a little while. This is our end-game build, and we use it to play end-game content. I'm sure the mass QQ "CM SO OP" etc will disappear now that it is completely irrelevant in PvP, and people aren't getting perm froze as if they were stationary uber bosses. PvP on the PTR has actually showed me that there are TONS of other interesting ways to play a Wizard, it just takes theorycrafting and time. But I also notice you have a naked P41 Wizard, and may not be as attached or committed to this gear set as some people. But for players with billions of gold, months of time, and hundreds of Paragon hours invested in Critical Mass? You need to think of things like this if proposing an "elegant" solution which would crudely destroy people's hard work. Also, your proposal for reduced cooldowns would be very OP in PvP play. I think it's out of the question. If you want to drop cooldowns on 3 out of 5 of your proposed skills WITHOUT using Critical Mass, you can look directly to our passive Illusionist which also works just fine. We aren't pidgeonholed.
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Cooldowns and CM are bs. Just have casting animation + mana cost and let us figure it out from there
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01/19/2013 11:13 AMPosted by CLIFFEMU
Cooldowns and CM are bs. Just have casting animation + mana cost and let us figure it out from there
I think that's more of WD's territory.
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