Diablo® III

Dear Director: returning the depth to Diablo

01/20/2013 01:05 PMPosted by Stunblue
Good post. I read that entire wall o text and agree with it. I also agree that they need to make radical changes and I don't care how long it takes. I haven't played since a month after release and I don't plan on it until it gets a good overhaul. Here's hoping that the new director does what needs to be done but I won't hold my breath. I have a feeling they'll just make this the shiniest turd anyone has ever seen.

This is a good summary of my feelings on the matter actually. I have hope with the change in director but I'm not holding my breath either.

01/20/2013 01:05 PMPosted by Baconan
Most of the things people suggest were actually in Diablo 3 at some point but scrapped later in favor of streamlining the game.

This is part of what leads me to believe that it would be considered. They have some past experience and some old numbers they could even refer to. They wouldn't really be starting from scratch. They'd have some material to reference.
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I don't publish my work. I make more than enough money as an engineer to spend time marketing game systems I design. Just because I can do it doesn't mean I try to make a name for myself by it. It's a hobby not a job for me.


So you claim to know about design, but can't provide proof of said claim.

Yup, just as I figured. You're niavee and haven't a clue as to how anything works.

Come back when you can prove yourself.

What do I have to prove? I don't need to convince you it can be done. I know it can be done and I know a good director can do it. I'm just providing the changes that I feel need to be made. If you don't believe it's possible then you are free to leave.
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Even if they didn't have to redesign the whole system this would not happen, you have to remember Diablo 3 was created with a possibility of porting to console(which is unfortunate) because when it comes to console it would be easier to make it as as simplistic as it is rather than distributing stat points and skill points per level.
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I don't need to convince you it can be done. I know it can be done and I know a good director can do it.


The people that have a history of game development that is readily visible, say otherwise.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592583030#3

I'll take their word over yours.
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01/20/2013 01:17 PMPosted by Evobby
Even if they didn't have to redesign the whole system this would not happen, you have to remember Diablo 3 was created with a possibility of porting to console(which is unfortunate) because when it comes to console it would be easier to make it as as simplistic as it is rather than distributing stat points and skill points per level.

There is no reason why they had to cut these things for consoles. Console RPGs have had stat and skill points in the past.

01/20/2013 01:19 PMPosted by Ringo
I don't need to convince you it can be done. I know it can be done and I know a good director can do it.


The people that have a history of game development that is readily visible, say otherwise.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592583030#3

I'll take their word over yours.

The CMs speak for the devs and this is from the perspective of the current leadership. Their leadership took the iterative approach which I believe is largely because a lack of vision. A good leader, a good designer can produce much more in less time if they make good decisions the first time. See D2 design (finished in 2 years), LoD design (finished in 1 year), TL (finished in just over a year), or TL2 (finished in just over 2 years).
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lol This game id doing fine. Your people need to learn how to work with the core you all whine about. The problem with this game is it is over your str to equip, dex to block and rest in vit mentality. Same can be said for max main skill , max synergy skills.

It don't take anything but an imagination to come up with the unrealistic stuff the op states. What a heap of horse dung.

The first and most important change in making this work is the removal of weapon DPS as being directly linked with skill damage. This is just a plague upon the game through both how it affects skill balance and how it limits skill choices. However, the link between weapon damage and skills won't be completely removed. Many melee and ranged skills would still be dependent on weapon damage but many nonsensical ones would be disconnected.

So some will, but wait some won't lol what a pile of drivel.

The skill system is fine. You need to spend more time working with it instead of whining. D2 you got 30 skills that's it. Load a d2 skill calculator. Oh you are a warrior you can drop a bunch of points into weapon class but remember you need to max your main skill and it's synergies.

got to www.d3up.com and import your profile. Go to the skills section and play around. You get between 21 -23 skill points I believe based on class. You get 5 runes and the 3 passive skills with a base of 12 passive skills to draw from. This is a great foundation to work with.

Really the op is unrealistic.
Strength: increased melee weapon damage, increased armor, increased attack speed (this adds an offensive incentive for non-melee characters and yet still makes it the stat that melee characters would want to lean towards even though the melee weapon damage bonus is significantly reduced)

Dex: increased ranged (physical) weapon damage, increased dodge, increased crit (again both and offensive and defensive bonus for non-ranged characters while still making ranged characters tend towards it)

Vit: Increased HP. Honestly, I don't think anything else is needed here. Even in D2 vitality was highly valued and that's all it really did (lol stamina recovery :P)


So what, A wizard has to stack strength to get ias. I guess Intellect was dropped from his game. HIS WHOLE POST IS A JOKE.

Oh I know I shouldn't respond to the trolls (particularly the known trolls) but...

Actually no, I don't feel like wasting my time. I don't feel the need to explain the intimate details that make these changes really so important. If you want to take things seriously then I'll address your points but if this is going to be your attitude I'm not going to bother.
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The CMs speak for the devs and this is from the perspective of the current leadership. Their leadership took the iterative approach which I believe is largely because a lack of vision. A good leader, a good designer can produce much more in less time if they make good decisions the first time. See D2 design (finished in 2 years), LoD design (finished in 1 year), TL (finished in just over a year), or TL2 (finished in just over 2 years).


You know, Blizzard will be looking to fill that position. Maybe you should apply since you're apparently smarter and better than everyone at Blizzard.

You sound like the hero D3 deserves.
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01/20/2013 01:34 PMPosted by Ringo
The CMs speak for the devs and this is from the perspective of the current leadership. Their leadership took the iterative approach which I believe is largely because a lack of vision. A good leader, a good designer can produce much more in less time if they make good decisions the first time. See D2 design (finished in 2 years), LoD design (finished in 1 year), TL (finished in just over a year), or TL2 (finished in just over 2 years).


You know, Blizzard will be looking to fill that position. Maybe you should apply since you're apparently smarter and better than everyone at Blizzard.

You sound like the hero D3 deserves.

I have a well paying job already. I also don't have an interest in moving to the west coast. It would be kinda fun but I really enjoy engineering. Besides half of the job posting appears to be focused on personnel management which is the less desirable aspect.

I would be open to consulting for free in my free time if the devs wanted to open up a line of communications directly though.
Edited by steveman0#1968 on 1/20/2013 1:40 PM PST
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I have a well paying job already. I also don't have an interest in moving to the west coast. It would be kinda fun but I really enjoy engineering. Besides half of the job posting appears to be focused on personnel management which is the less desirable aspect.


Oh come on. You're being greedy with this amazing gift of yours. Share it with Blizzard so they can learn from your greatness and us mere mortals can have better games. Take one for the team.
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01/20/2013 01:47 PMPosted by Ringo
I have a well paying job already. I also don't have an interest in moving to the west coast. It would be kinda fun but I really enjoy engineering. Besides half of the job posting appears to be focused on personnel management which is the less desirable aspect.


Oh come on. You're being greedy with this amazing gift of yours. Share it with Blizzard so they can learn from your greatness and us mere mortals can have better games. Take one for the team.

See my edit above.
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As other people have stated, your ideas are completely against the current system and therefore have near to no chance of being implemented in D3. You should have proposed changes that work with the current system instead of trying to revamp the whole thing.

Then you dare to say "Nothing I've suggested actually requires much effort to change." while you actually have no idea of what you're talking about.

What a joke.
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Sorry to burst your bubble but this game was an incredible cash grab experiment.
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As other people have stated, your ideas are completely against the current system and therefore have near to no chance of being implemented in D3. You should have proposed changes that work with the current system instead of trying to revamp the whole thing.

Then you dare to say "Nothing I've suggested actually requires much effort to change." while you actually have no idea of what you're talking about.

What a joke.

If the devs aren't prepared to make radical changes then the game isn't going to get much better. That's all there really is to it.

Changing the math can be done pretty easily (on the implementation end) and can drastically change how the game is experienced. It is much easier to change numbers than to completely redo UIs or other fundamental changes. Most of what I listed is just changes to equations and numbers in spreadsheets. Only the skill point system would require UI work.

If you are to take a defeatist attitude then the game isn't going anywhere. I love the Diablo series too much to just let it die the painful death that it is destined in its current state.
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01/20/2013 02:05 PMPosted by steveman0
I love the Diablo series too much to just let it die the painful death that it is destined in its current state.


Then why only offer consultation in your free time? Go work for them full time, show them how to do their jobs since you know better than they do, and fix the game since you love the series so much and don't want it to die.

Hell, since it's so easy to do, just do up a sample and show it to them. I bet if you can walk the walk they might actually consider what you're suggesting.

Great power, great responsibility and whatnot.
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If the devs aren't prepared to make radical changes then the game isn't going to get much better. That's all there really is to it.

Changing the math can be done pretty easily (on the implementation end) and can drastically change how the game is experienced. It is much easier to change numbers than to completely redo UIs or other fundamental changes. Most of what I listed is just changes to equations and numbers in spreadsheets. Only the skill point system would require UI work.

If you are to take a defeatist attitude then the game isn't going anywhere. I love the Diablo series too much to just let it die the painful death that it is destined in its current state.


Just balancing your "simple but drastic changes" would take months. I'm being realistic, not defeatist. All the changes you proposed are not as simple as you seem to believe. As a software engineer (as you stated you were), you should know that.
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OP, you nailed it with your post, and I feel pretty much the same about everything - only thing I would put more emphasis on is the itemisation. I think interesting affixes that force players into making trade-offs and offer complexity are key, and are sorely lacking at the moment.
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I love the Diablo series too much to just let it die the painful death that it is destined in its current state.


Then why only offer consultation in your free time? Go work for them full time, show them how to do their jobs since you know better than they do, and fix the game since you love the series so much and don't want it to die.

Hell, since it's so easy to do, just do up a sample and show it to them. I bet if you can walk the walk they might actually consider what you're suggesting.

Great power, great responsibility and whatnot.

Because I'm not willing to sacrifice my primary career and the paycheck that comes with it to make a temporary diversion fixing their mess. I want to see better from the Diablo series but I won't throw my life away to see it happen. As I said, I can help in my free time but my career comes first.

If the devs aren't prepared to make radical changes then the game isn't going to get much better. That's all there really is to it.

Changing the math can be done pretty easily (on the implementation end) and can drastically change how the game is experienced. It is much easier to change numbers than to completely redo UIs or other fundamental changes. Most of what I listed is just changes to equations and numbers in spreadsheets. Only the skill point system would require UI work.

If you are to take a defeatist attitude then the game isn't going anywhere. I love the Diablo series too much to just let it die the painful death that it is destined in its current state.


Just balancing your "simple but drastic changes" would take months. I'm being realistic, not defeatist. All the changes you proposed are not as simple as you seem to believe. As a software engineer (as you stated you were), you should know that.

If it takes months to balance these numbers then they aren't very good at math or aren't using all of the resources at their disposal. And no, I'm not a software engineer I'm an electrical engineer.

01/20/2013 02:24 PMPosted by Dave
OP, you nailed it with your post, and I feel pretty much the same about everything - only thing I would put more emphasis on is the itemisation. I think interesting affixes that force players into making trade-offs and offer complexity are key, and are sorely lacking at the moment.

You might have noticed that all of my changes have itemization changes in mind ;)
Edited by steveman0#1968 on 1/20/2013 2:30 PM PST
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If it takes months to balance these numbers then they aren't very good at math or aren't using all of the resources at their disposal. And no, I'm not a software engineer I'm an electrical engineer.


You have absolutely no idea regarding the impact your changes might have, why don't you stop acting like if you knew. This kind of statement makes your credibility suffer.

Just to make it clear, I'm not against any form of idea proposals. But when I see stupidities regarding time and effort estimates on said ideas, it just pisses me off.
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Great OP. Any and all of these things would move D3 in the right direction.

I like your term 'depth'- it's better than 'complexity', which I've used in the past. The difference is mostly semantic, but depth is a more appealing concept.

I'd look at the intersection of skills and itemization from other angles as well, particularly in regards to crafting. Lots of depth needed everywhere. Here's what I wrote in a now long-dead thread (don't mean to hijack, so I won't link it.):

IMO, sustained interest in a game like this comes from:

Complexity- there need to be many different options for developing a character. D3 currently has basically one- farming to buy on the AH. Nothing else is remotely competitive in terms of time spent. (Bug or feature? I realize this may be completely intentional. No one needs to post that comment for the 3 millionth time...)

Sense of progress- having paths and strategies available that reward planning and thinking ahead. Being able to control the development path rather than just be herded to the only viable option.

Loot lust- Having interest in items that help along the way, rather than just high-end unobtainables until characters are well into Inferno. There is a huge dead zone for items before level 60, and even after 60, only a small selection of stuff worth getting. Everything else isn't just trash, it's litter on the ground with such vanishingly small chances of not being trash that it may as well not exist.
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