Diablo® III

Dear Director: returning the depth to Diablo

Strength: increased melee weapon damage, increased armor, increased attack speed (this adds an offensive incentive for non-melee characters and yet still makes it the stat that melee characters would want to lean towards even though the melee weapon damage bonus is significantly reduced)

Dex: increased ranged (physical) weapon damage, increased dodge, increased crit (again both and offensive and defensive bonus for non-ranged characters while still making ranged characters tend towards it)

Vit: Increased HP. Honestly, I don't think anything else is needed here. Even in D2 vitality was highly valued and that's all it really did (lol stamina recovery :P)

Int: increased elemental damage (weapon/spells), increased all resist, increased crit damage (naturally makes caster/elemental focused characters have larger crits and better resistance to the elements while, again, giving an offensive and defensive bonus to other characters)


Sorry but in my model I would not put IAS with strength. I would put it with dex because a character that is speedy and can dodge makes more sense. Instead if IAS with strength I would put increased crit damage. A stronger character should be able to do more damage. Intelligence is where I would put increased crit chance because a smarter character is no doubt more able to see the weaknesses of his adversary.

Also any manual system needs even more depth than what I suggested. It needs a depth where you would have a lot of viable ways to spend your points. It would be balanced where there would not be a huge difference from one way to the next. Where the only real difference is in play style. Sure you might be able to eek out a few more percentage points by using the optimal way.

Skill points are much the same way. Regardless of how you or anyone else would make them. Without a deep system you will always have one or a small handful of right ways to spend them. Much like our gear is now.

Heck I already cleared inferno with a Seismic Slam/Earthquake build that I made on my own.

The secondary effects of stats could easily swap around to whatever the devs prefer. The main point is that there is a secondary offensive effect. The specific effect for each attribute aren't important. I could see your choices fitting just as well.

The very reason why I would reduce the contribution to melee/ranged weapon damage is precisely to increase the flexibility of stat points. It is to cut down on min-maxing and allowing players to personalize their playstyle whether that be by going crit heavy or attack speed heavy, for example. The main damage stat just shifts the balance ever slightly in favor of those attributes. This has the effect of retaining class identity for those stats so that players have the sense of direction for how they should choose to build their stats. Think of it like a subtle tutorial.

The same basic rules apply for skill points. I wouldn't want the damage boosts by skill points to be very powerful. The more important element would be the bonus effects like cost reductions, extra projectiles, etc. as these would enable you to make the skills the centerpiece of your build. The damage is just a balancing correction. Skills that are weaker might see a greater boost per point so that if you invest heavily in them they'll be competitive as primary abilities and others like earthquake will get a very small damage boost as they'd scale too quickly with other effects like cost reduction. The goal would be that you could take any damage move and make it your centerpiece ability.
Edited by steveman0#1968 on 1/21/2013 9:59 PM PST
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They really need to make every single skill to be almost equally useful to another skill or have items that deal DIRECTLY with a skill in a greater manner than "adds 6%" or "reduces cost/cooldown".

The Witch Doctor for example, have very little skills and playstyles to choose from. Soul Harvest and Spirit Walk are a must. Then you have either Zombie Bears or Acid Rain to choose from, or possibly even both. Then a Primary like Firebomb or Poison Darts.
The other option is to build a Sacrifice Dog build which costs about 200 million for 2-3 important items.
The Passives are also very limited. Spirit Vessel, Grave Injustice, Pierce the Veil, or Gruesome Feast.
There's rarely any synergy between styles.

Any skill that is not use consistently or isn't used for a direct build needs a buff, no questions.
Adding special effects on items would be awesome as well and would improve build/weapon diversity. Preferably replacing some effects on Legendaries. It could be like "shoot 4 Poison Darts in different directions, +20% damage on Poison Darts" or "Swarm of Locusts move three times as fast onto enemies, +60% damage on Searing Locusts". And that's after adding the buffs to the skills as well. The items could be part of a Set so better effects can't be abused.
Witch Doctors have almost no other defense other than Spirit Walk. Zombie Dogs are decent, but Horrify and Hex need change on their runes or overall effects. How about something that gives a long-lasting Armor or Resistance buff?

I really, really hope that Blizzard releases more Skills, more runes on existing skills, and more Passive on all currently existing classes that will diversify builds to a great extent. As well as new weapons, armor and new affixes to help along with it.
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Why not just play POE?
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01/21/2013 05:22 PMPosted by Ludya
I agree with your item optimization. But skills overhaul is kinda far fetched(couldn't be done in a few months).

True, it is the most complex of the changes but it would extend replayability by an order of magnitude or more. I think, as tough as it would be, it would provide the biggest return for the time invested.

01/21/2013 06:08 PMPosted by MrMiraculum
i would like to see side quests and more areas to adventure, thats includes travelling to and from acts (via waypoint perhaps)

Yes, this still bugs me as well. I expected so much more in this regard. I dreamt of awesome side quests bigger and better than jar if souls. I was disappointed to know it was the best the game had to offer for events.

Someone has undoubtedly beat me to the punch on this one but...

OP TL:DR "Give me D2 with a new graphics engine."

I'd love that as well. :P

[quote]First,
Sorry skill points does no equal diversity. All players that choose the same build will no doubt spend their points the same way. The only way around it is to make a truly deep and rich system. A system way deeper than D2, TL2 and Path of Exile.

They do however offer personality and a feeling of "I made this." to your character. You are thinking of diversity in the wrong way... Same skills yes, but who cares? I CHOSE them. My character is unique and personal to myself.

Yes, this is what most overlook about skill and stat points. The key isn't the challenge in building a character or even providing so many choices to try to make everyone completely unique. The goal of the system is to make the player feel important in developing their character. That sense of ownership is a key element to RPGs.

01/21/2013 09:13 PMPosted by TexaStranger
At best, it is an illusion of choice: you choose a set of skills that copy effective builds you read about on the forums or somewhere else.

You miss the point. Even the illusion of choice has a significant psychological effect that helps to immerse the player in the experience.
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Any skill that is not use consistently or isn't used for a direct build needs a buff, no questions.
Adding special effects on items would be awesome as well and would improve build/weapon diversity. Preferably replacing some effects on Legendaries. It could be like "shoot 4 Poison Darts in different directions, +20% damage on Poison Darts" or "Swarm of Locusts move three times as fast onto enemies, +60% damage on Searing Locusts". And that's after adding the buffs to the skills as well. The items could be part of a Set so better effects can't be abused.
Witch Doctors have almost no other defense other than Spirit Walk. Zombie Dogs are decent, but Horrify and Hex need change on their runes or overall effects. How about something that gives a long-lasting Armor or Resistance buff?

These are all excellent examples of effects that would be perfect on class set items or class legendaries. They are really under-utilizing them currently. These effects are the kind of thing that makes you hunt for legendaries in the first place and really change your playstyle when you find them.

01/21/2013 09:40 PMPosted by ChangWu
Why not just play POE?

I plan to do that too! The last character wipe is just days away!
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dude all they have to do is just give us this game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEvThjiE038

nothing more this is what Diablo 3 was originally.


+1
WTF happened if it looked THIS COOL in 2010 (!) :(((

- no cooldowns (not like now with everything 10+ sec on it)
- 5+2 skill available (at least)
- "mana" regen even for barb and pretty fast (not it's decreasing as default..)
- instant skill change with no cooldown on the field.. (on inferno it takes about a minute and has to go to town..)
- whole place, design, characters look much more diablo like and 3Dish there was even a ladder in :P
- the conversation part and quest is also much better and enjoyable and there was even a joke in it..
- wd could add locust on zombie dogs (why can't we do this now?!)

etc.etc

What i liked the most as a wizard, the teleport in another gameplay vid from years ago when it had illusions casted instantly surrounding the target and spectral bladein' it instantly on cast with NO COOLDOWN :((

it would be enough for a start if the new director would bring back these settings..
Edited by DOZERNIS#2289 on 1/22/2013 12:37 AM PST
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01/21/2013 09:40 PMPosted by ChangWu
Why not just play POE?
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Sticky this Blizzard we all want this
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Blizzard will proceed to lock the thread because the Director has NOT LEFT YET.

Wait until he announces his formal departure then start posting this sort of stuff guys...

Just let the game rot until he leaves first.
Edited by Cow#1701 on 1/22/2013 4:26 AM PST
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I think they can fix the problems in the game with an expansion under certain stipulations. The first 4 are required, the rest would just be pluses.

1) They need to be willing to completely redo the UI so that there is a strong social system in the game rather than just a weak one on the forums.

2) They also need to add complexity to itemization & character customization, unfortunately there is none as it stand right now.

3) They have to make the maps randomized. They need to go over the top with it, maybe even have the season's change in the game to correspond with the current season in the respective server regions.

4) All areas in the game need to be accessible within the game. Linearity needs to be broken, it needs to be an open world.

5) If they improve the crafting that is BoA to make it have a solid chance of being better than 90% of the AH stuff then the AH probably wouldn't bother me anymore. In compromise though for blizz receiving monetary compensation for running the AH, they need to be steadfast in updates and communicating with the community in a more transparent level.

6) I think the best solution for the AH is to switch the philosophy from pay2win, but also have a steady revenue from it by switching it from a "pay gold or cash for items" theme to a "pay gold or cash for aesthetic and quality of life improvements to the gameplay. Guarantee it would make blizz sell more Xpac copies if they did this before the Xpac release.
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http://us.battle.net/d3/en/game/what-is

LOL at the fact that they still have pvp areans listed under the what is diablo page false advertising i want my money back.
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Give us back stats damnit.
I hate this automatic dispensing of stats that >>> I <<< should be deciding where they go.
What a stupid decision on their part.
So disappointed, I thought this game was going to be like Diablo II.
I was so wrong.
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The very reason why I would reduce the contribution to melee/ranged weapon damage is precisely to increase the flexibility of stat points. It is to cut down on min-maxing and allowing players to personalize their playstyle whether that be by going crit heavy or attack speed heavy, for example. The main damage stat just shifts the balance ever slightly in favor of those attributes. This has the effect of retaining class identity for those stats so that players have the sense of direction for how they should choose to build their stats. Think of it like a subtle tutorial.

The same basic rules apply for skill points. I wouldn't want the damage boosts by skill points to be very powerful. The more important element would be the bonus effects like cost reductions, extra projectiles, etc. as these would enable you to make the skills the centerpiece of your build. The damage is just a balancing correction. Skills that are weaker might see a greater boost per point so that if you invest heavily in them they'll be competitive as primary abilities and others like earthquake will get a very small damage boost as they'd scale too quickly with other effects like cost reduction. The goal would be that you could take any damage move and make it your centerpiece ability.


You will always have players that min/max in a game. They will want to run with the cookie cutter optimal builds. Playing anything less than optimal is not fun for those types of players. Just like playing themed builds if fun for other players that love those types of builds. So there is no magic bullet that will end those types of builds. The only thing a game can do is to lower the need of using them that is all a game developer can do.

This is true for both manual stat and skill points. The simpler the system the easier it is to see what is truly optimal, the most efficient build for that class. The more complex and if the gap between optimal and sub optimal is very small. If it is not needed in the majority of the game. Then the amount of players using it will be less. Put in things like raiding or special leagues and PvP tourneys or the such and those parts of the game will demand such things.
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I read the OP's entire post and I would characterize his request as one that requires a new game, not a modification of the present one. Not saying I disagree, but new is want he wants.
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The pay2win nature of D3 probably have generated considerable immediate income for Blizzard in the short term. Many RMAH users probably realized the pay2win nature and may have felt compelled to pay becuase they play 2 win. However, majority of players would have rejected and stayed away from RMAH and probably despisted it. Hence the next major game title by Blizzard will turn away majority of players if it's another pay2win. Without the popularity generated by these majority players, pay2win would lose its meaning to players who use RMAH.
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To the OP..

They had designed a lot of that originally. If you check out the old BETA notes .. you notice that this game had a HUGE design change about 5-6 months before release.

The atrributes were named differently and did different things (that were less damage focused and less class-focused).

They also decided at that time to change skills to be based off weapon DPS.

I attribute this "last second" major design shift to be the cause of all Diablo's problems.

They've basically spent the last year FIXING those issues since they did not have enough time to sufficiently test them .. and for some things .. there is just no going back without major redesign.

Why did they have this huge design shift at the last minute? Not sure .. to make the game "easier" and thus more accessible? That is my guess. The corporate big whigs wanted a more "friendly" game and not a min-max game with too many choices.
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The very reason why I would reduce the contribution to melee/ranged weapon damage is precisely to increase the flexibility of stat points. It is to cut down on min-maxing and allowing players to personalize their playstyle whether that be by going crit heavy or attack speed heavy, for example. The main damage stat just shifts the balance ever slightly in favor of those attributes. This has the effect of retaining class identity for those stats so that players have the sense of direction for how they should choose to build their stats. Think of it like a subtle tutorial.

The same basic rules apply for skill points. I wouldn't want the damage boosts by skill points to be very powerful. The more important element would be the bonus effects like cost reductions, extra projectiles, etc. as these would enable you to make the skills the centerpiece of your build. The damage is just a balancing correction. Skills that are weaker might see a greater boost per point so that if you invest heavily in them they'll be competitive as primary abilities and others like earthquake will get a very small damage boost as they'd scale too quickly with other effects like cost reduction. The goal would be that you could take any damage move and make it your centerpiece ability.


You will always have players that min/max in a game. They will want to run with the cookie cutter optimal builds. Playing anything less than optimal is not fun for those types of players. Just like playing themed builds if fun for other players that love those types of builds. So there is no magic bullet that will end those types of builds. The only thing a game can do is to lower the need of using them that is all a game developer can do.

This is true for both manual stat and skill points. The simpler the system the easier it is to see what is truly optimal, the most efficient build for that class. The more complex and if the gap between optimal and sub optimal is very small. If it is not needed in the majority of the game. Then the amount of players using it will be less. Put in things like raiding or special leagues and PvP tourneys or the such and those parts of the game will demand such things.

Yes, there will always be players that min/max and their very existence guarantees no system will ever have a meaning in their eyes than to act as a problem to be solved for their own gain. No one in their right mind designs a system for these people because it is meaningless to do so for them. They don't care what form it takes, they'll only try to maximize their gains however they need to do it. The design shouldn't be built around them it should be built around the typical player so that it is fun.

Reducing the range in which you can really min/max makes it less of a concern to the typical player. They don't need to worry that they could be 500% more efficient if they built in a way that went against their style. It's much easier to sacrifice a few percent efficiency for your own fun than it is 500%. Most would rather that the fun route if it won't impact their farming speeds much. This is precisely how things went in D2. Off the wall builds weren't uncommon due in part to the fact that though they were not optimal, they were still quite effective at clearing content quickly.

The point is to reduce the gap between what is optimal and what is fun. That's the purpose of the emphasis on the special effects from skill points rather than the damage. It isn't intended as a way to stack your character to be super strong rather it is to make your character unique. It is about customization not another path to power.

Optimization has no part in manual stat or skill point allocation by design. It is there inherently due to the nature of choice and the limitations of game balance but the reason for implementation is to provide choice in customization. In fact, you could even go so far as to remove the melee/ranged damage bonus from stats entirely and the damage bonus from skill points. Then the choice would be entirely one of customization but that removes some of the flavor and character identity of the attributes.

01/22/2013 08:16 AMPosted by Koen
I read the OP's entire post and I would characterize his request as one that requires a new game, not a modification of the present one. Not saying I disagree, but new is want he wants.

You really discredit much of the work that has gone into the game. The graphics, zone designs, animations, music, sound effects, AI, UIs (only the skill change would actually change any UI elements), story, character design, etc. do not need to change and these things account for the vast majority of the work. Changing a few equations to balance the game is only a small fraction of development. At worst, it would take a decent team a few months to implement the changes listed. In other words the worst case scenario is that these plans go on the books for the expansion.
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You're writing a dear post to a vacant position, might want to change that to Dear: CCO (Chief Creative Officer) or Dear Lylirra (since last week was Dear Vaeflare, don't want to make her feel left out :P )

Regardless, thumbs up, very good post
Edited by MasterJay#1651 on 1/22/2013 8:51 AM PST
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To the OP..

They had designed a lot of that originally. If you check out the old BETA notes .. you notice that this game had a HUGE design change about 5-6 months before release.

The atrributes were named differently and did different things (that were less damage focused and less class-focused).

They also decided at that time to change skills to be based off weapon DPS.

I attribute this "last second" major design shift to be the cause of all Diablo's problems.

They've basically spent the last year FIXING those issues since they did not have enough time to sufficiently test them .. and for some things .. there is just no going back without major redesign.

Why did they have this huge design shift at the last minute? Not sure .. to make the game "easier" and thus more accessible? That is my guess. The corporate big whigs wanted a more "friendly" game and not a min-max game with too many choices.


You don't have to tell me that. I've been a regular follower of the news and development since about 2010. It is this past development that leaves me with the hope that these ideas could be implemented. They probably have a lot of notes and the math to implement them they just need some polish.

You're writing a dear post to a vacant position, might want to change that to Dear: CCO (Chief Creative Officer) or Dear Lylirra (since last week was Dear Vaeflare, don't want to make her feel left out :P )

Regardless, thumbs up, very good post

Think of it as a preemptive letter to the new director. After all, I'd hate for him to be lost as what to do on his first day :P
Edited by steveman0#1968 on 1/22/2013 8:53 AM PST
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As I was reading your post i was getting so excited to build my character!!!! Then I realized what we have..... and we don't get to build anything......

Absolutely great ideas!! However, for them to implement this... the only hope is that they actually re-release D3 as an "expansion pack" and make all these changes in the expansion, and re-adding, the mystic, charms, more gems (that don't just +stat like every other piece of everything in the game), runes, runewords, possibly even real merc's.

And a note to Blizz dev's if you ever do read this. Why is A1 so epic (lots of destructible environment, those chandeliers that crash onto the floor, monster placement, ect...) and all the other acts just fail... there is next to nothing in the other acts. The only other place I recognized the monster placement is the fields of slaughter.

Either this was intended, and the expansion will actually be epic ( I know how you could easily continue the story and basically make people forgive and forget you for this "mistake")
OR it was rushed development, in that case well it sucks you didnt have time to implement all the changes intended (but if you follow the story line im thinking of, they might still forgive you for this "mistake")
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