Diablo® III

Please change the way Keys drop

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this is actually a great idea.
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Just let me sell keys on the AH RMAH and you can cc yourself to the poorhouse.
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01/22/2013 06:24 AMPosted by ISmkPotatoes
6 hours for 2 keys... Get a better weapon, use HotA Smash/Thunder Strike and Rend Blood Lust at the very least. I also suggest using Battle Rage into the fray. If you plan to use a 2H, I suggest you at the very least get life steal on it. Your belt is very nice, but its definitely worth getting an IK belt over that. I suggest getting another piece of IK as well to get more AR, I recommend the chest armor. If you use these things, you can do MP 10 comfortably. Just make sure to rend a lot. Now, even to say you go slow, 2 keys in an hour is easily done in MP 10.

The thing is it shouldn't be 6 hours for two keys. Thats the whole point of the thread. It should be 8-9 keys in that time. While thats not a huge amount, I should have been able to farm enough keys for two or three infernal machines today. I'd love to see blizzard implement a way where you spend the time you get a guaranteed reward. As was said before, the ring currently takes three lots of RNG piled on top of one another and thats too much.

It shouldn't be easy to get, but by the same token it shouldn't take one person a day and another person a month (when they have the same gear and effort) just because the first person has lucky drops. Note: I'm not talking about the quality of the ring itself (thats a different issue) I'm just talking the drops needed to open the portals, then the drops needed to craft the ring.

As for my gear - thats kinda off topic since I'm not looking for gear tips. I know what I need I just don't have the gold to buy it. About half my gear is actually found (including the belt and weapon that you mentioned). If I had a hundred mil I'd have upgraded some items. But what I have is what I can have at this point. YAY for lousy RNG on gear drops too. :(
Edited by Carnacki#1383 on 1/22/2013 6:50 AM PST
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Well I've spent (wasted...) hours farming keys and have one Hellfire Ring (lousy rolls - it's on my female Barb). I think it took 15 uber kills to get the drops at MP3. To be honest the RNG on that is about right, since I actually got about 6 items from 15 kills.

What's not right is the lousy RNG on key drops. I've had one good day where I had 6 keys in 6 kills at MP4. Since then I've had several lousy strings of luck back to back. 12 kills for 1 key, 7 kills for 1 key... Since I've upgraded some gear I bumped up to MP5 and have 10 kills for 0 keys. It's getting pretty ridiculous. At 10 kills in a row I'm starting to wonder if it's bugged, but of course there's no way to check *sigh*

Surely there is a better way to build towards the infernal machines than suffering long streaks of RNG where you don't get keys? If not the idea of "key fragments" then how about giving us a stacking buff where for every warden kill that doesn't drop a key you get 5-10% more "key find". Preferably up till 100% chance, but heck even a five stack would be nice. Obviously when the key finally drops the stack could reset to zero.

Heres another alternative, every time you don't get a key you get a token. The token can be used to grant a 5 minute "key find" buff. Again, the buff could be 5-10% and it could stack multiple times if you use multiple tokens. Being a short buff it should wear off quick enough that you'd only be able to kill one warden while it's active.
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The problem with the Infernal Machine is that the people who need Hellfire Rings the most (for the xp) have crappy gear and can't farm higher MPs to get reliable key drops.

Whereas the people who can do MP10 often don't need Hellfires because they have rings like SoJ/Littany that are better.
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That is why for me I do my key runs when I choose to do them and if I get a key great. I save those keys to make my machines and wait until I can get a crew together to try for those pieces.
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They should up the % rate to 100 at MP7 or so and maybe give you some extra chance to drop 2 keys at MP8-10. Also I'd prefer to see one machine open all three portals as this would make getting a HF much less tedious for those that can only farm mid range MP levels. I personally think it should be easier to get for those that can actually use it rather than it be some sort of reward for those who have already been really lucky, played the AH, or used RMAH.
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don't key farm at MP3 and you won't be disappointed. get better gear. there are vids all over youtube that focus on budget gear. don't have the 2-5 million gold? freaking BUY some. it's cheap.

before i get slammed for suggesting that someone actually use the RMAH... this is blizzard. this is the same company that created one of the most successful MMORPG (if not the most successful) games and they charge money per month to play. D3 was most certainly designed so that you could play without paying a penny or using the AH or the RMAH. but without it, you'll be spending many hours trying to find upgrades to your gear unless you are just extremely lucky.

here's an idea... invest a little cash into your own personal entertainment. if you've upgraded from DVD to blu-ray and/or if you've ever double dipped to get a special edition version or payed three or four or ten times to go see a movie in the theater, it's all the same concept. after you get some decent gear, then you can farm and get that money back if you want. or just play for fun. you have tons of options here.
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02/01/2013 10:46 AMPosted by Carnacki
Well I've spent (wasted...) hours farming keys and have one Hellfire Ring (lousy rolls - it's on my female Barb). I think it took 15 uber kills to get the drops at MP3. To be honest the RNG on that is about right, since I actually got about 6 items from 15 kills.

Clearly you know about the forums obviously you're posting here...find a group to do key runs with...there is a Looking For Group Section for a reason. People will run key runs with and run the ubers for you - end of story

This event has been out for months now, its pretty easy to get rings just doing XP runs...Blizzard doesn't need to do anything with it, this isn't Banjo and Kazooie this game is meant to make you grind - that's the whole point.

If I'm looking to get Act 2 Keys I always run VOA, super fast, and you can get your toon to "start in the vault" when you re-resume the game so you don't have to run around trying to find it again.
Act 1 has got to be the easiest place to get 5 stacks outside of act 3
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Actually, I'd be more in favor of making keys HARDER to farm, so long as once you get the Ubers the chance to get a ring organ is much higher. OR the chance that your ring doesn't completely suck is higher.

I liked how D2 handled Ubers.. really hard to get keys, but once you beat the Ubers you're guaranteed a pretty darn good charm (which also, btw, meant you didn't have to unequip an item to use it)
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I flipped a coin 10 times and it only came up heads once ...clearly the coin is broken.
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02/01/2013 12:04 PMPosted by oneredflag
I flipped a coin 10 times and it only came up heads once ...clearly the coin is broken.

Good way of putting it. People should have a basic understanding of probability and statistics before they complain about key drop rates.

I think of it this way: If I farm keys on MP2 expecting a straight 20% drop rate, it would be like rolling a 5-sided die ten times and fully expecting two of those rolls to land on "5" (or whatever)
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*sigh* What bugs me about some of the responses to this thread is that they don't even read the posts. I'll address a few of the things that came up.

I'm not running MP3 or lower for keys. I was running MP4 and yesterday I started running MP5. Takes a tad longer but not much. Of course several hours with no key drops defeats the purpse of raising MP.

I'd happily run at a higher MP level but until I get the gear to do so I'm stuck doing it with what I have. I'm not going to spend any more money on the real AH in order to gear up. I put some on in the past and I found the whole RMAH experience unpleasant and far more difficult than it should be. So never again.

I will never run in a group with randoms because of past experiences with idiots (frankly I'd much rather play solo like the previous two Diablos) and of my friends who play... most have quit (which doesn't say a lot about the game in general). Of the two that are still playing only one has decent enough gear to run at a similar MP level. And frankly running together means more frustration because it actually makes the runs slower and I despise the way one player gets rewarded but not the other. This is another fix that really should be made - if a key drops for one player then it should drop for both. I'd say the same about legendaries too, but thats a different issue.

I was running the game "normally" up until a week or two ago. I had precisely one key drop up until then. Getting keys as part of "normal" play is a joke. I was never going to get enough to make an ubers run, let alone craft a ring. Hence the two weeks of heavy duty farming. I didn't write down the numbers first, but pretty sure it's somewhere around 2,500 elite kills just key farming in that time.

I don't have an issue with spending time to farm the keys. Nor do I have a problem with the five stack of NV required. I've already got a fairly quick route on the three acts to get five stack then head to Key Warden. And to be honest the farming of elites for NV5 has given me a heap of recipes and legendaries in the last couple weeks. Nothing awesome but well... it never is.

I'm well aware of how probability works. Which is the main reason why I'm asking for a change. I'd like to reduce some of the randomness which results in long streaks of "bad luck". Imagine if you were working and your boss was paying you that way. Some weeks you wouldn't get paid at all, other weeks you get paid three times. The weeks where you get paid are awesome but the other weeks you starve. Trying to find the keys is similar (minus the starving), at the moment it feels like work - unpaid, unrewarded work.

And that is the crux of the problem. If my friend and I want to do some ubers run on the weekend it might be possible to get enough keys in three runs or we may farm the whole week and still not have enough for a single ubers run. Yes thats the way probability works, but this is a game we're playing and it's turned into a job because of probability. An incredibly frustrating, unrewarding one.

And a nasty side effect of the whole "its probability thats how it goes" fob off - you don't know whether its bugged or not. And any time you make a claim that its bugged you'll immediately be accused of being a tin foil hat wearing whiner. Note: I'm not claiming its bugged, just making the point that it could be and I wouldn't know.
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@Agamemnicon: I meant to address this but forgot in typing that wall of text above >_<

I don't disagree with your idea of making it harder to get keys IF the subsequent reward is guaranteed. It's already been mentioned back in the first page of this thread that at the moment getting a ring is triple RNG. First there is getting the keys to drop, then getting the fragments to drop, then getting good rolls on the ring.

I'm all for taking out some of the RNG so the process becomes more predictable. However, I'd rather take it out at the key stage rather than at the ring stage. The reason is this: if you take it out at the ring stage you pretty much only need to do the Ubers once, get your good ring and stop. Sure it takes ages farming to get the keys to get in but once you do it's game over. I'd rather make the key farming more predictable and then kill the ubers multiple times rolling multiple rings to get a good one.

But I wouldn't mind so much if it worked the other way - like you suggest.
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I think HF grinding would be mostly fine if there were other rewards for killing a keywarden/uber with NV5. Like improved MF. Then if a key or organ didn't drop, at least you would have good items eventually.

The infernal machine blog posts even goes as far as saying that the reward for ubers is "bonus items". And the chance to drop organs is something extra. I guess that there was a disconnect between that wish and reality, because after my first few uber fights they seemed to be as lackluster as a normal boss in regards to drops.

In 1.07, at least farming the NV5 so many times will ensure you get tons of demonic essences...
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Little bit oppose to the "by lucky" game design logic IMO.

However, Blizzard always listen to players' options, if ppl spport this idea, it may appear in future patch, let vote :)
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I am on the opposite side when it comes to Key farming. I sometimes farm with a friend and most of the times I get a key and he doesn't. Doesn't matter what MP we farm, better than 80% of the times O get a key he doesn't. I have about 22 keys, four full sets( hate,destruction,terror). He has two keys. If only I had the same luck with legendaries and Set drops!
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@RavingMad: Yes I've seen that from the wrong side which is a big part of the frustration and part of the reason I prefer to run solo.

Pre the MP system, same friend I want to run Ubers with just dinged 60 and hit inferno. He tagged along with me while I was doing an Act III run in the tower at 350ish MF. 10 minutes in we've died a heap of times and he gets a 25mil+ Nat's ring. About 10 minutes later he gets a 5mil rare weapon. Months of farming and I had never seen a drop more than 4mil and he pulls a 25mil drop while being carried. Its doubly painful that he gets them on about 20MF when I'm at 350 >_<

Same friend was running MP1 key runs and getting more keys dropping than I was on MP4. Ultimately, I don't begrudge him his drops. I just find it frustrating that RNG gifts people and screws others over. Obviously the game needs a degree of RNG but I wish they'd reduce it for certain things - keys of course, crafting is another.
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