Diablo® III

Why are so many people stuck on WW builds

What are some of your other builds youve tried.

I try to make different builds all of the time, and most work really dam well up to mp8.

Yes gear may have alot to do with it but people are really missing out on alot of great skills by limiting themselves to WW and WOTB.

Ive recenly become a huge fan of the Bloodshed rune on Battle rage. The radius is rediculas and with HOTA and a skorn i can clear an entire room in 1 hit because the Battle rage rune stacks on every enemy critted.

New builds people TRY it, deviate from the normal. Its not all about WW.
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There is nothing wrong with playing non-cookie cutter builds. If more people did it, maybe I could afford some upgrades.

The reason double nado is so popular is that it takes advantage of high synergy stats and skills to deliver a lot of in game dps coupled with fast movespeed. Hard to argue with that.

Before someone developed double nado, we were mostly sword and board depending on frenzy to deliver most of our damage. It took someone to think outside of that box to come up with double nado.
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Especially before the proc coefficient nerf, ww/sprint was just simply overpowered. Even now, despite appropriate gear going up in price, I'm pretty sure that it's the cheapest build to gear for to handle high mp's. Taking ww out of your build pretty much requires that your gear is good enough to facetank all incoming damage. (Which I see that your certainly is, but it's not that easy to get there) And even then, even if you can play effectively, you lose its mobility. The problem is that blzzard didn't offer very many other compelling options. At least they buffed rend dramatically to make it viable. Most other skills/runes could still use a lot of improvement to really challenge the overall effectiveness of sprint:rltw/ww:sprint.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 1/23/2013 12:50 PM PST
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The speed man the speed.... I can't even play the other classes because they are so slow compared to a 24% move speed WOTB Barb tear assing around Manhattan in an Edgar suit! Oops, got carried away...
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01/23/2013 12:47 PMPosted by Seph
The speed man the speed.... I can't even play the other classes because they are so slow compared to a 24% move speed WOTB Barb tear assing around Manhattan in an Edgar suit! Oops, got carried away...


Don't forget the part about being invulnerable, immune to CC, and doing sick damage. So yeah, OP, that's why...
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I was so against WW builds, when they first became popular, no reason other than I hate bandwagoners. I used SS/HOTA and could farm almost as fast as I can with WW. The nado AOE damage and damage mitigation is hard to beat also. Pretty much its the paraleveling I use it for, I think im gonna do another SS build when I reach max para....
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Wrath is cornerstone of why double tornado makes too much sense. There are other ways of dealing with crowd control, but they are all much clunkier. No option other than wrath for facetanking frozen+jailer+arcane without ever retreating.

It is possible to perma-wrath with HotA and seismic slam, though more difficult, and has higher gearing requirements. It's possible to closely compete with ww with HotA/SS with the right gear, but even then, dropping br:into the fray and wrath:toc is not an option, and some rune of sprint is still needed.

Basically the barb class needs more options both for mobility and for dealing with crowd control. Those two factors alone make anything other than rltwt/hurricane/itf/toc a hard sell.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 1/23/2013 12:58 PM PST
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I love builds that synergize. ww nado, cm wiz, strafe dh. Makes me feel op and that's why I play :)
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DW Tornado is frankly still imbalanced...

If you gear specifically for mismatched weapon speeds between main and offhand, you boost the damage output of the tornadoes proportional to the mismatch in tick rates. This dps boost basically kills skill balance for DW barbs. WW is the best build you can run if your main/off hand have different speeds.

In an extreme case, simply using an ias dagger in offhand with EF mainhand will boost your tornado dps ~40% roughly half the time. There's no other barb skill with this characteristic. All other attacks alternate weapons, except ones you can't spam effectively, like rend or earthquake.

If you gear matched speed weapons with similar dps, you have more viable build options, but only because you are basically nerfing yourself by not taking advantage of this characteristic of Sprint:RLTW

I see more build diversity among 2H and SnB barbs than in dual wield. Those that use WW are probably just former dual wield barbs that use WW out of habit. It is a great build for any setup to farm lower MP. But, there are more builds competitive at other MP levels.
Edited by Jim#1333 on 1/23/2013 10:44 PM PST
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Does anyone think that the WW/DT build was planned as hidden and waiting to be unearthed?

Wonder if there can still be other hidden CC/WOTB builds around?
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01/23/2013 12:15 PMPosted by silverfire
Especially before the proc coefficient nerf, ww/sprint was just simply overpowered. Even now, despite appropriate gear going up in price, I'm pretty sure that it's the cheapest build to gear for to handle high mp's. Taking ww out of your build pretty much requires that your gear is good enough to facetank all incoming damage. (Which I see that your certainly is, but it's not that easy to get there) And even then, even if you can play effectively, you lose its mobility. The problem is that blzzard didn't offer very many other compelling options. At least they buffed rend dramatically to make it viable. Most other skills/runes could still use a lot of improvement to really challenge the overall effectiveness of sprint:rltw/ww:sprint.


I don't think this is entirely true. EVen with low defenses it's not that hard to get a different build going. It relies almost exclusively on the mobilty/AOE aspect. No other build even comes close in delivering AOE DPS.

With that being said MP7+ is where you really see things like HOTA become crazy awesome.
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I really don't wanna use WW, my build works really well without WW.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/BoyNamedGoo-1167/hero/2191672
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What are some of your other builds youve tried.

I try to make different builds all of the time, and most work really dam well up to mp8.

Yes gear may have alot to do with it but people are really missing out on alot of great skills by limiting themselves to WW and WOTB.

Ive recenly become a huge fan of the Bloodshed rune on Battle rage. The radius is rediculas and with HOTA and a skorn i can clear an entire room in 1 hit because the Battle rage rune stacks on every enemy critted.

New builds people TRY it, deviate from the normal. Its not all about WW.


I really tryed playing Double Nado, but I hated it so much that it made me drop my barb entirely for a time. When I came back I knew I would eventually get fed up again if I'd remained with the build. So I simply went back to a Throw build. Coupled with HoTA and Frenzy/Vanguard I'm very fast and mobile. And I have no trouble keeping WoTB up 100% of the time.

I still use Double Nado when I'm helping someone with Ubers.
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It's fast and fun! I played around with a hota build and while it was very powerful I didn't find it as fun..
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1) Other build loss skill slot for Spirit, WW build synergy with Spirit.

2) WW/DT is just the fastest build for low MP. No other AE damage can match WW.

3) WW/DT is also the cheapest for high MP. You can high damage mainhand with offhand just for stats and do well dps (even not good looking dps number).

01/23/2013 12:47 PMPosted by Seph
The speed man the speed.... I can't even play the other classes because they are so slow compared to a 24% move speed WOTB Barb tear assing around Manhattan in an Edgar suit! Oops, got carried away...


I bet you never tried other classes.

Monk have 10% runspeed bonus on passive which make them 34% permanent runspeed, and don't forget the TR build.

DH have so many skills for speed boost, most cost disc tho. But even without legacy nat sets, DH just use vault + passive can run as fast as barb if not more.

I'd just finished my barb and picked up my WD again. He can finish alk run faster than my barb with half dps. WD have 2 runspeed skills both relatively low colddown.

You can keep infinite wotb on high MP but it isn't efficiency for leveling until 1.07.
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01/24/2013 05:41 AMPosted by Asadian
With that being said MP7+ is where you really see things like HOTA become crazy awesome.


WW is still a lot faster than HoTA/Rend in MP7+....
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I dont think so. On MP8 i can 1 hit all of the monsters on the screen in 1 shot with bloodshed Rune and HOTA.

Its a hidden gem people need to look into it.
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With that being said MP7+ is where you really see things like HOTA become crazy awesome.


WW is still a lot faster than HoTA/Rend in MP7+....

I don't entirely agree with this, but it might just be wishful thinking. I can hit around 500k exp/min in MP6 in 1.06 without using ww at all. HotA/Rend/OPKS/RLTW with animosity as a passive. In 1.07 this should translate to well over 1m/min, and my gear is frankly pretty terrible. There are many on here with 2-3x my DPS and much better tuned sets that could do better than I can on MP6 on MP10. My feeling is that the faster you can kill stuff with HotA and/or Rend, the less important it is to have ww on your skill bar. If a screen full of mobs dies in front of you before you even get a chance to ww, there isn't much need for it. My gear isn't good enough to properly play ww/sprint though, so I can't do any apples to apples comparison.

I think there will at least be more experimentation in this direction, if not a shift towards it, as everyone gets better and better gear, and 1.07 makes higher MP's optimal.

I dont think so. On MP8 i can 1 hit all of the monsters on the screen in 1 shot with bloodshed Rune and HOTA.

Its a hidden gem people need to look into it.

But I also disagree with this. I don't think it's possible to hit anywhere near peak efficiency without using sprint/wotb:toc/br:itf. If you can kill stuff fast enough, ww is not crucial. But if you can kill a room full of monsters quickly, your bottleneck will become your movement speed. It might not feel that way right now, but with end-game gear it'd be the case even in MP10, and at that point you will have to work wrath and sprint in, otherwise you will inevitably be a lot slower than you could be. If you don't care about moving across the map as quickly as possible, all the power to you, but you won't be as fast as you could be.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 1/24/2013 11:23 AM PST
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silverfire, I know you saw these vids....you can't tell me you can push the same pace with HoTA/Rend

Act 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik9KrMQELeI&feature=youtu.be

Act 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqxK5iUITGk&feature=youtu.be

Mainly it's because I am able to attack a lot of monsters at once and my mobility is so high, I don't discount that HoTA/Rend can kill just as fast, but incorporating more enemies at once and mobility will still make WW faster. I have yet to see a HoTA/Rend barb able to run MP10 at this pace.
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Yes, they are very impressive, I skimmed through them last night. I can push a similar pace, but obviously not on MP10. I can't look at your videos right now, but I'd like to compare them against det0x's MP10 HotA run. He was hitting 550k+/min in MP10 in 1.06 IIRC. I think that should be competitive with what you are showing, correct?

Though I admit I'm biased against ww. I want to see something else at least come close to it. I'd consider coming within 90% of the xp/min a victory, lol.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 1/24/2013 11:34 AM PST
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