Diablo® III

Which better 0 dog, Manajuma or Echoing Fury?

Title says it all, I'm almost to where I need to be for my 0 dog spec but not sure which 1h I'd be better off with.

I'm comparing these two weapons (roughly)

Manajuma with 995.6 dps, 186 int, 68% CD, 2.8% LS, and socket. (1.4 attack/sec)
Echoing Fury with 1023.5 DPS, 165 int, 2.9% LS, socket, +.22 attacks/sec (1.42 attack/sec)

A lot of the manajuma is poision damage while the echoing fury is all black damage. no idea which one will be better off and would really like some help before I spend this kind of gold.

When I remove my current weapon the manajuma shows +41,644.8 dmg +.2% prot, the EF shows +40,181.4 dmg, +.2% prot. Not sure if these are valid indicators of how much dmg I will do once in the spec.

TY!

EDIT: BTW, an EF that costs a lot less, with more base dps and no CD/socket indicates +50k dmg, obviously a somewhat invalid comparison since I can't socket the gear on the AH.
Edited by SilentMike69#1275 on 1/20/2013 3:06 PM PST
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tbh neither of the two are the best option for 0 dog. If you have a lot of gold the best option is to buy a rare black dmg sword with increased attack speed. If you dont have that much gold then a nice rare black dmg dagger with increased attack speed is the next best option.

Reason you dont want manajuma is because its slow.

Reason you dont want an EF is because you will fear your enemies away from u thus causing u to have to chase them down which is extremely annoying.

In fact the only thing i dont like about 0 dog is having to chase down runners but other than that its a bad !@# spec.

Another thing I'd like to mention is that there is a lot of talk about a possible nerf to black dmg weps including EF's so in all honesty until we can get a blue to confirm whether theres going to be a nerf or not, I would hold off on buying a wep for now.

If you need any further advice on 0 dog I'd be happy to help and I live stream mp10 at

http://twitch.tv/heyguyslol_1302

hope this helps
Edited by heyguyslol#1302 on 1/20/2013 5:42 PM PST
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I would like to chat if you don't mind. I tried some mp10 and got absolutely pwnd. Quillbacks kited the hell out of me and even trash was hurting quite a bit. Using a borrowed manajumas at the moment, but thanks for the advice.

I'm worried about the black damage thing and am very leery of spending gold; however, i definitely appreciate your input on the weapon.

EDIT: I looked at your gear and noticed I've only got about 1/3 your dps, that might be part of my issue at that high level of play. I stepped down to mp9 and am surviving but it takes forever to kill anything since my dps only buffs to 120k.
Edited by SilentMike69#1275 on 1/20/2013 6:52 PM PST
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I had a wardrobe malfunction and realized I was wearing some incorrect gear while trying this out :). I'm doing a bit better now and can comfortably kill mp7, albeit a tad slower than I'd like. Who'd have known once I got the gear to actually DO 0-dog, I'd need more gear to do it well LOL.
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My experience with EF...
The fear doesn't proc often to the extend that I feel annoying. My EF is a 11% fear and the barb took it in my profile.

EF should be the way to go in terms of budget and dps. A rare like what heyguyslol using ... if u can find one... will leave a crack on a credit card.

Here is the link to the possible fix:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=394340
Edited by Luffy#1946 on 1/21/2013 4:56 PM PST
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I use a EF, don't think u need the extra LS, so you can go with a higher dps EF, mine cost 65mil. Went with ais b/c this build is based on AIS, well that and zero second zombie dogs. You can heal yourself enough with the zombie dogs. I bet someone you will read black damage is better too, not sure why but....

This spec works best with a CM wiz MP10. Port to the middle of pack start freezing and you jump in spam dogs, health pots all over to help your CM survuve if hes below 3.0 second ais
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Check out my build, I also use 0cd dogs. I prefer to use an echoing fury with LoH so my manitou can benefit from it.
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I looked extensively at getting an Echoing Fury, Carving Knife and black damage weapon and it really came down to the fact that there is too much compromise in the Legendary items.

Echoing Fury can have only two random affix, I wanted four, Crit Damage, Open socket, attack speed and Life steal.

Carving Knife can't go much past 720 average damage. Black damage can get you up to 900 and higher. Average damage is what matters, it's why daggers hit like pool noodles.

Another thing you should look at is the attacks per second, the faster you cast the more dogs you can blow up, which means more life from "For the master" rune.

I ended up looking for average damage +800, attack speed, Life Steal, Open socket and Crit damage. I found my blade and it only cost 800 million. Since this is a niche build and very expensive, I can't see why anyone would complain about item cost.
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I use an EF and the fear proc isn't an issue. Given how much sac heals you, ls or loh wasn't an issue for me.

The bigger concern for me would be the rumors about a black damage nerf. I wouldn't spend big until we see what 1.07 does.
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Now this is exactly what I was talking about:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7593743038?page=15#294

pay attention to the words
"bug fix will only apply to newly created items,..."

01/22/2013 01:21 PMPosted by Vaeflare
ues are just that, bugs that we know about. They are NOT necessarily bugs that are going to be fixed. The MinMaxDamage bug has been a bug known to us since July of last year, however, we did not want to fix a bug that would effectively nerf a large number of existing weapons. That’s why we did not fix the bug in any previous patch that we've released since the bug was found, nor are we fixing it in patch 1.0.7. Currently, the plan is that at such a time that we address the bug, the bug fix will only apply to newly created items, so as to not adversely affect existing items.
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I looked extensively at getting an Echoing Fury, Carving Knife and black damage weapon and it really came down to the fact that there is too much compromise in the Legendary items.

Echoing Fury can have only two random affix, I wanted four, Crit Damage, Open socket, attack speed and Life steal.

Carving Knife can't go much past 720 average damage. Black damage can get you up to 900 and higher. Average damage is what matters, it's why daggers hit like pool noodles.

Another thing you should look at is the attacks per second, the faster you cast the more dogs you can blow up, which means more life from "For the master" rune.

I ended up looking for average damage +800, attack speed, Life Steal, Open socket and Crit damage. I found my blade and it only cost 800 million. Since this is a niche build and very expensive, I can't see why anyone would complain about item cost.


I'm also looking down the same line that you are, I want CD, Socket, IAS, and 2.8 LS or greater in a black damage package. Now, a monster EF could overcome some of its 2 affix shortfalls but the fear blows and if it is good enough to overcome 2 affixes, then it is probably even more expensive. There's a nice duped sword on AH right now that I'd like to buy, hopefully they get into a bidding war...

As for complaining about cost, I think I've got good reason :). (sadly) I'd like to lay claim as having the worst luck the game has ever known. Almost 950 hours on my WD and my biggest AH sale is 60m. I just did a full MP7 run with 550% MF and not even a bad legendary fell, nothing at all. Who the heck does this happen to? I've went over 250M exp without a legendary drop, and even when I do get them they are run of the mill junk that constipates the AH with their badness.
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I use an EF and the fear proc isn't an issue. Given how much sac heals you, ls or loh wasn't an issue for me.

The bigger concern for me would be the rumors about a black damage nerf. I wouldn't spend big until we see what 1.07 does.


Play a higher monster power level, then not having life steal will be a huge issue.
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