Diablo® III

Pictures of Manticore on PTR with Red Gems

http://imgur.com/a/98Lrd/all

Screenshots with 0, 1, and 2 Red Gems. On a 50% modifier Manticore. Thanks Myon for testing the gems for me.
Edited by TianZi#1634 on 1/23/2013 12:33 AM PST
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Heard you lose DPS by usin two rubies though overall when geared with decent CC and CD. For a Manti the best setup is one ruby one emerald?
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Posts: 490
I need to quit d3 again before I get addicted with 1.07.
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01/23/2013 12:44 AMPosted by METATRON
Heard you lose DPS by usin two rubies though overall when geared with decent CC and CD. For a Manti the best setup is one ruby one emerald?


Depends on gearing, for me I actually would have the highest DPS with 2 rubies, and it opens up some pretty cheap gearing options for me since it shifts the who IAS:CD:CC ratios by quite a bit.

Kinda feel bad for the single socket Manticore people though, they seem to be in a pretty bad spot from this patch.
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01/23/2013 01:16 AMPosted by TianZi
Heard you lose DPS by usin two rubies though overall when geared with decent CC and CD. For a Manti the best setup is one ruby one emerald?


Depends on gearing, for me I actually would have the highest DPS with 2 rubies, and it opens up some pretty cheap gearing options for me since it shifts the who IAS:CD:CC ratios by quite a bit.

Kinda feel bad for the single socket Manticore people though, they seem to be in a pretty bad spot from this patch.


I think this statement is very true. The IAS would become more important than CD and CC if the Marquise Rubies work very well. Very expensive to get the gem but the gears could be significantly cheaper
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01/23/2013 01:27 AMPosted by RaveaAngel


Depends on gearing, for me I actually would have the highest DPS with 2 rubies, and it opens up some pretty cheap gearing options for me since it shifts the who IAS:CD:CC ratios by quite a bit.

Kinda feel bad for the single socket Manticore people though, they seem to be in a pretty bad spot from this patch.


I think this statement is very true. The IAS would become more important than CD and CC if the Marquise Rubies work very well. Very expensive to get the gem but the gears could be significantly cheaper


But for top DPS you would want all three anyways CC CD IAS. In the end for a manticore user the best possible damage output would come from an emerald and ruby in conjunction with the gear. If your gear is lacking in CC and CD then yes two rubies should be the best quick dps boost. But in the long haul as you upgrade your gear the emerald in one slot will overtake the Ruby.
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01/23/2013 01:40 AMPosted by METATRON
But for top DPS you would want all three anyways CC CD IAS. In the end for a manticore user the best possible damage output would come from an emerald and ruby in conjunction with the gear. If your gear is lacking in CC and CD then yes two rubies should be the best quick dps boost. But in the long haul as you upgrade your gear the emerald in one slot will overtake the Ruby.


Hmm, I'm really not sure. In the test scenarios we did with Myon using the Manticore it seemed double ruby was ahead, and his gear is a hell of a lot better then any gear I'll obtain until Blizzard adds new gear to the game.

Also, his ridiculous Calamity put his DPS a bunch above the relatively cheap manticore we used for testing. I think one of the reasons why this manticore seems to favor the ruby is due to the 50% modifier. With a lower percent modifier on a different manticore I'm pretty certain the 1green/1red setup will turn out with higher DPS.

Since I don't have the red gem recipe myself I've just been using spreadsheets for calculations, and it seems the 2red setup on my 50%damage manticore is pretty much always turning out better then using the 110% CritD gems.

-----

Here's a picture of the red gem on Myon's Calamity, as well as the effect of the reds on a lower damage% manticore.

http://i.imgur.com/QveBtY9.jpg

I think in this manticore my spreadsheet data is saying 1red/1green is better then double red or double green.
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I think this statement is very true. The IAS would become more important than CD and CC if the Marquise Rubies work very well. Very expensive to get the gem but the gears could be significantly cheaper


But for top DPS you would want all three anyways CC CD IAS. In the end for a manticore user the best possible damage output would come from an emerald and ruby in conjunction with the gear. If your gear is lacking in CC and CD then yes two rubies should be the best quick dps boost. But in the long haul as you upgrade your gear the emerald in one slot will overtake the Ruby.


You are right. The really top players are really well geared in all 3 aspects. The ruby may offer new and not so well geared players more value for their non-cc Mempo, lacuni and witching hours. I am also curious to see how it would affect me since theorically calamity users will probably benefit more
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But for top DPS you would want all three anyways CC CD IAS. In the end for a manticore user the best possible damage output would come from an emerald and ruby in conjunction with the gear. If your gear is lacking in CC and CD then yes two rubies should be the best quick dps boost. But in the long haul as you upgrade your gear the emerald in one slot will overtake the Ruby.


You are right. The really top players are really well geared in all 3 aspects. The ruby may offer new and not so well geared players more value for their non-cc Mempo, lacuni and witching hours. I am also curious to see how it would affect me since theorically calamity users will probably benefit more


The ruby is the best for Calamity users, they benefit an almost 54% if i remember correctly. Reason being they have such a high base attack speed to begin with and also due to the way black weapons calculate the +min +max. Manticore being elemental does not calculate it the same way and its slower attack speed means it doesn't benefit as much but it is still good to have one ruby in it.
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Thanks Metatron, i think it is time to save 80 million for the Marquise Ruby LOL
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It's pretty amazing to see 19xx on your weapon.
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I checked my dps calc and rubys are not for me. I dropped from 237 to 231k swapping 1 ruby. I did not check 2. With th scoundrel, i run 66.5 CC and 500CD.
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at least enchantress will be useful now.
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01/23/2013 06:52 AMPosted by hellmonkey
I checked my dps calc and rubys are not for me. I dropped from 237 to 231k swapping 1 ruby. I did not check 2. With th scoundrel, i run 66.5 CC and 500CD.


You are right as you only have 19% damage on your Manti. My Windforce that's 1367 dps has 49% on it, and ends up being an 1888 dps Windforce with Marquise Ruby.

+Min = +150 * 1.(damage multiplier) 49 in my case
+Max = +300 (Because when +Min gets added first it puts Min over Max) * 1.(damage multi) 49

+Min = +223
+Max = +447

Manticore uses Poison Damage as +Min and +Max
So for you hellmonkey +248 min +594 max
On your 19% Manti.
+Min = +150 * 1.(19) = 178.5 but since this added to current does not make +Min > +Max
+Max = +150 * 1.(19) = 178.5

Thus making the Ruby very weak in your setup.

As per the 50% in the image posted above. the +150 * 1.(50) = 225 min in which added to Min Poison puts the +Min higher than the +Max therefore changing the +Max recipe to +300 * 1.(50) to get +450 to +Max. And since the Ruby is based off of the Weapon itself the 2nd ruby works exactly off the Weapon as if they were a different Weapon.

Socketing 2 Rubies in a 50% Manticore results in +450 Min and +900 Max
Socketing 2 Rubies in a 19% Manticore results in +357 Min and +357 Max

I'm not sure what the cut off point would be where damage multiplier actually makes 1 ruby better and at what point it makes 2 rubies better.
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what's the cost of a marquise ruby?

3 top end ones... and XXX? i assume you have to find your own plans too?
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As per the 50% in the image posted above. the +150 * 1.(50) = 225 min in which added to Min Poison puts the +Min higher than the +Max therefore changing the +Max recipe to +300 * 1.(50) to get +450 to +Max. And since the Ruby is based off of the Weapon itself the 2nd ruby works exactly off the Weapon as if they were a different Weapon.


Hmm, I actually don't think that this is true.

In both of the manticores I tested (including the one in the first post), it appears that the 2nd ruby gives a larger DPS boost then the first ruby.

I haven't figured out exactly why. Would help if someone that knows the reason the 2nd ruby gives a bigger boost then the first ruby could explain.
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what's the cost of a marquise ruby?

3 top end ones... and XXX? i assume you have to find your own plans too?


If I'm not wrong it's,

3x Radiant Star
25x Tome of Secrets
1x Demonic Essence
1x 20 million gold crafting cost
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@hellmonkey

one has to be careful about just making decisions based on increase or decrease of DPS.

While you may decrease your dps slightly with a marquis this doesn't mean you will kill slower. in most instances you will kill slightly faster.

There are Crit hits and non-crit hits.

When you are looking at dps-sheets and numbers from simple calculations about what it does to the dps it does not show you where the ranges are.

I did some calculations as a for instance and found I could lose 6k dps but the biggest affect is only at the top-end of crit-ranges.

non-crit ranges went up from range 23575-52128 up to 30300-58920 (6k increase for low-end to high-end non-crits.

If you look at average non-crit hit would be ~37851.5 and with marquis ruby average non-crit hit would be ~44610 (increase average damage per non-crit hit by ~6.8k)

Crit range from 129192-285663 went to 135714 t 263961 (min crit numbers increase by about 6k but max crit range is about 22k less). The Average per crit is ~207427.5 and with marquis ruby average crit-hit damage would be ~199837.5

So while it can show a dps net loss on the stat sheet the avg crits would only drip 6k but the non-crit hits would increase by 6.8k. Now granted crit-hits are much higher damage numbers than non-crit hits. But I don't think just dismissing a marquis ruby due to a loss of dps on the plain stat sheet is necessarily the right way to make this determination.
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@ Bubba, i looked at the numbers. My dps calc I made shows hit and crit min, max, and average. Obvisouly my non crits went up, but my crits dropped too much. With as high as my CC is, more CD is better. I did check with a 1h bow, and yes, it was better with that, but I prefer the manti.

Also, I dont think most of us can afford or are lucky enough to come across a 1350 + dps manti with dex and 2 sockets. Hell, I have no idea how long its going to take me to save 250M for a nat trifecta ring.

Also, I dont want to spend 200M for a minimal to lateral change in damage. Id much rather spend that money on gear for a tangible change in ehp and/or dps.
Edited by hellmonkey#1619 on 1/23/2013 10:28 AM PST
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