Diablo® III

Pictures of Manticore on PTR with Red Gems

[quote]it appears that the 2nd ruby gives a larger DPS boost then the first ruby.
correct

your fist ruby makes the min goto (413+150)
which is not greater than (413+85+150)

thus there is no min+1 feature until you add the 2nd one
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01/23/2013 10:29 AMPosted by zoid
[quote]it appears that the 2nd ruby gives a larger DPS boost then the first ruby.
correct

your fist ruby makes the min goto (413+150)
which is not greater than (413+85+150)

thus there is no min+1 feature until you add the 2nd one


Where do you get the '85' from?
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correct

your fist ruby makes the min goto (413+150)
which is not greater than (413+85+150)

thus there is no min+1 feature until you add the 2nd one


Where do you get the '85' from?


a weapon is understood as
Weapon_Min
Weapon_Delta

a manticore is 413 and 85

which becomes a base range of 413-498

however that IF-> then logic I cam up with is not satisfying the conditions in your images.
Ill have to re visit it when not at work
Edited by zoid#1554 on 1/23/2013 10:45 AM PST
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@Hellmonkey

Fully understand where you are coming from :)
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@TianZi

That screen-shot showing manti and calamity you posted isn't because of the manti having low +dmg only.

the issue is the damage is based on BLACK(PHYSICAL) damage and doesn't include the Poison damage affix. The poison range is a huge amount of dps on that manticore (270-557) and that is why there isn't as big of a difference when it shows in PTR. the DMG Gem is off of the BASE dps of the bow and has nothing to do with the poison.

In the case of that image you posted looking at the original manti you have to recalculate things and figure out what is the actual physical damage of the bow.

This is similar to Inna gear or other gear that adds like 7% holy damage. It adds it to the physical part of the bow and not the "addons" of elemental damage.
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In the case of that image you posted looking at the original manti you have to recalculate things and figure out what is the actual physical damage of the bow.

This is similar to Inna gear or other gear that adds like 7% holy damage. It adds it to the physical part of the bow and not the "addons" of elemental damage.


I figured that the poison damage should be fully separate, and just multiplied by the attack speed. But I can't find the formula that works with both manti's that results in the first gem and 2nd gem giving different boosts in DPS >_<

It seems i'm missing a key part of the calculation, and lots of other sources seem to believe that both gems should give the same increase, yet it clearly does not.
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http://i.imgur.com/5xFWI3g.png

if you wanted to see what THREE socket manticore would look like
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everything is matching up. I got side-tracked at work, my above post is irrelevant(#21)
everything is accounted for

all rubies add what they should, what is confusing you is the weapon_delta(85) being "lost" in scenario 2. which is normal when calculating max= min+1.. you lose the Delta value on weapons
during the 2nd addition of a ruby there is no more delta to lose

here is the breakdown

(241-451) poison
50%
Weapon_Min(413)
Weapon_Delta(85)

1) 860.5 - 1198 (avg 1029.25)
minDamage = (413)*1.5 + 241 = 860.5
maxDamage = (413 + 85)*1.5 + 451 = 1198

2) 150-150 = 1086-1522 (avg 1303.75)
minDamage = (413+150)*1.5 + 241 = 1085.5
maxDamage = (413+150+1)+150)*1.5 + 451 = 1522

3) 300-300 = 1310-1972 (avg 1641)
minDamage = (413 + 300)*1.5 + 241 = 1310.5
maxDamage = (413 + 300+1)+ 300)*1.5 + 451 = 1972

in BOTH examples you are getting (min+1)

the avg change is
1) 1029
2) 1303.75-1029 = 274.5
3) 1641-1303.75 = 337.25

in 3) the ruby did more because in condition 1) you have 413+85 and going to 2) you gain (+150+1) rather than (+85)

you are only overwriting the 85 with (150+1) a net change of 66, NOT 150
which is like adding the avg of (150+150+66)/2*1.5 = 274.5
Edited by zoid#1554 on 1/23/2013 6:00 PM PST
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Thanks Zoid :)

It seems that the calculation is actually much more strait forward then I expected. Seems the poison 'min' doesn't apply like a min on black weapons, so min doesn't even need to be > max to add the additional gem bonus.

Basically looks like I (we) can use the same formula for basically every/any manticore regardless of the values on the poison affix. Hopefully the formula isn't getting changed since 2k DPS manticores on live server would be pretty nice, lol.

-----

Looks like my manticore will be sitting at 2056.1 DPS.
Edited by TianZi#1634 on 1/23/2013 6:24 PM PST
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http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Shini-1628/hero/18977082

i still don't get how to calculate :( help me with my manticore how much gain or losing dps :)
since my manticore only does 31%
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Impressive. I thought that ruby won't be for me as manticore user, but calculating with your weapon dmg, double ruby will indeed give me great dps boost (+10,8% over radiant emeralds and +7,6% over marquise emeralds). Excellent choice for this price. How much will the rubi recipe cost, any idea?
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Ruby does not scale with your chc/chd so if you have no chc/chd you gain a lot of damage with Ruby. Now if you have high chc it really depends on much chd you have. Getting over 50% chc and +300% chd and Ruby will boost dps if you are using a 2 socket Manticore with +40% or more damage, or a calamity.
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2 ruby gems in my manticore definitely boasted my dps greatly. Went from 347k unbuffed to 373k unbuffed :p
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If you use new ruby to put some where else

Like armor shoe some like that what effect will have ?

Is will work better DPS then EM for SS build with manticore ?

and I think will be very sad with 1 soc manticore

Thx sir
Edited by BenJ#6843 on 1/27/2013 9:11 PM PST
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Based on what you guys are saying... does that mean I should grab a 2 socket manti asap? Cuz it seems like the manti I have right now will become obsolete :S any advice would be great, ty!
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01/28/2013 12:23 AMPosted by Luooo
Based on what you guys are saying... does that mean I should grab a 2 socket manti asap? Cuz it seems like the manti I have right now will become obsolete :S any advice would be great, ty!


The way things are on PTR now, it means 1 socket manti's are basically dead because a 2 socket manti with 1red/1green will basically have higher damage. It also mean's that 2 socket mantis with a low (or no) %weapon damage roll are in a bad spot, because pretty much every manti user will want at least 1 red, and possibly 2 in some situations if %damage roll is high enough.

However, currently on the PTR there isn't an answer if Blizzard plans to scale the current red gems or leave a giant jump from +20 dmg (current) to +150 dmg (new) gems. If current gems aren't updated, it basically means calamity and 2 socket manti users will have to pay ~80m for a new red gem.

-----

This is also subject to change if things on the PTR for some reason get changed. I already dumped my low weapon% manti like the day before i started this thread because I feel that it is a much safer situation to be in when the patch comes around.
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Thanks for your answer TianZi. So what exactly is considered low weapon %? I've found some OK 2 socket ones that have at least 30%... would that be sufficient? I see that yours is one at 50%... so I'm guessing that is probably desirable? I don't have a ton of gold so I don't want to end up risking on the wrong one. Ty!
Edited by Luooo#1181 on 1/28/2013 1:56 AM PST
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I bought my manti for 15 mil so don't make fun lol. But would any1 wanna take a stab at how I could best cheap upgrade for my weapon slot next patch? My bankroll is only like 500mil currently, I think the potent reds will be outta my budget =(
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There are a lot of weapons that are going to be next to worthless if they don't have a socket if the red gems are left as is. I'm not so sure this is a good thing in the long run. Between this and the new craft armors 1.07 is going to kill itemization even more than it is now. It's going to be harder and harder to find items that are worth anything to sell on the AH for new and lower end players.
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