Diablo® III

Please for the love of god, remove the spirit cost scaling effect from tempest rush and attack speed.

Why? - because it scales with attack speed, you need to avoid attack speed like the plague - a monk avoiding attack speed is like any other class trying to avoid it. Its bad, this one scaling mech is gimping a playstyle.

My max damage is severely caped because i need enough spirit regen from items and simply getting it from items gimps me because it does not roll on many items. and its either a choice of spirit regen or proper damage on a weapon.

My final example is this, going from 1.0 attack speed to 1.09 means i need over 11 spirit regen per second instead of the base 10 per second. This tiny attack speed destroys my gearing decisions because i need to re gear to offset the spirit requirement. Every time i upgrade with attack speed the goal posts move and every thing needs to be redone

Working as intended.

Stack dex/cd/cc

Just get a Skorn and a piece or 4 of spirit regen gear. Depending on what runes/skills you wanna use.

It is working i know.

What it causes is me and all other tempest rush monks to avoid attack speed like the plague.
i dont need to explain why avoiding attack speed for any set up is bad right, or do I.

In order to improve this playstyle we need more freedom when gearing, the freedom to use attack speed gear tri-fecta items. I am not asking for a lot i dont mind its 10 spirit per second cost. i mind the dramatic scaling.

To make an extream example, with 2 attacks per second this would cost 20 spirit per second. and with 2.5 attacks per second its 25 per second and so on. with fast weapons and 3 attacks per second it goes up to 30 spirit per second.

This Crazy scaling of spirit cost is so extream that duel wielding monks cannot use it for more than a few seconds at a time, so you are left with no choice if you want to use this cool ability, get a 1 attack per second weapon and avoid attack speed like the plague.

Its a flawed mechanic and limits play styles.

yeah, it seems counter intuitive.

Not to mention the fact that Frenzy shrine actually brakes this Set up

Want to attack 25% faster? well i hope you have 12.5 spirit per second or your fat !@# aint going anywhere

It is INTENDED.

You get spirit cost PER TICK of damage, not per second of DURATION.

Stop !@#$ing trying to make your desire to get something overpowered come true.

You get attack speed to increase just that - attack speed. If attack speed does not comprehend your build - dont take it.

The *only* thing this change would allow you to do is to get unending tempest rush, while also getting super cheap dps increase via loads of available attack speed legionaries.

So much monk qq in the forum. Many classes have this "problem". That they need different gear for different skill builds. Attack speed doesn't scale well for any class that has resources that generate over time.

bro don't even get me started, I would LOVE for the WD's attack speed scaling to work with his mana, we need it way more than the monk.

I never once said it was not intended, What i did say was that this single over the top mechanic is blocking character progression and limiting build diversity.

Its limited in which gear i can use, not because it does not give me much dps unlike every other class, using these items can directly prevent me from using the set up.

Its limited in which skills i can take because i need a base spirit of 10 and only through a mix of skills and items can i achieve this.

Standing still with my mantra on i can get just over 10 ish spirit per second. Perfect i can have an unending tempest rush, Only now i must avoid all attack speed gear ever made.

All of it, no attack speed on rings none on neck, none on belt, none on helm. none on weapon. and not only this but if i take a weapon with anything over 1.0 attack per second i will need more spirit regen accordingly.

On top of all this if i find a shrine of frenzy i must skip it or i will run out of spirit.

I dont know what kind of agenda you guys have but logically this minor mechanic needs to be changed, for the sake of build diversity this mechanic needs to be changed.

If you think that it is "Intended" for a single point of attack speed to destabilize an entire build then you are insane. this needs to be fixed its a minor fix and a massive quality of life improvement for me and many others.

FYI i am not asking for it to scale with mana or spirit, i want to reach my goal posts and then improve my dps. Not improve my dps and find my goal posts have moved and then further gimp my dps to reach the goal posts again.

meanwhile, barbs get spirit on crit, and get to keep the berserker rage for longer too with more crit.
crit is good
less attack speed is bad

You get spirit cost PER TICK of damage, not per second of DURATION.

This is incorrect, it is per second duration. If cost were per damage tick i could TR infinite until i hit a trash packs where i would instantly loose all spirit, which has never been the case.

Edit: putting this in context i understood what you meant, however it still applies to duration as we regen per second and adding IAS does in fact increase cost per second for the channeling.

The mechanic however is fine, it is only an issue due to our poor natural resource generation of 0 spirit per second. An issue btw that can be compensated for with gear and passives. Infinite TR is not overpowered, it is expensive to gear for when looking at high end damage production but can also be achieved via cheaply via passives.

Edit: typing on a virtual keyboard is making me slow...sorry.

01/22/2013 02:03 PMPosted by superp5556

On top of all this if i find a shrine of frenzy i must skip it or i will run out of spirit.

This one thing right here makes me never want to use my monk in multiplayer games. I can't opt out of the shrine when someone else takes it. Right clicking the buff does not remove it. When someone else in the party gets overpowered from the shrine I become useless, that is the main reason I wish they would stop the scaling effect on resource cost.

Take weapons for example,

You cannot use 2 weapons as a tempest rush monk because of this mechanic, thats a huge part of monk design simply denied because of this one minor mechanic.

Now look at 2 handers, most "diablos" the weapon cannot roll good stats with spirit regen
you can either get spirit regen or good damage. This is a huge gimp right of the bat.
not only this but most "Diablos" dont even roll with 1.0 attack speed. again gimped from the beginning.

On top of all this if i find a shrine of frenzy i must skip it or i will run out of spirit.

This one thing right here makes me never want to use my monk in multiplayer games. I can't opt out of the shrine when someone else takes it. Right clicking the buff does not remove it. When someone else in the party gets overpowered from the shrine I become useless, that is the main reason I wish they would stop the scaling effect on resource cost.

Amen brother!

If it actually did more damage with increased spirit cost, I'd say it would make sense, otherwise I think it should just be a flat cost like it says in the tool tip!

Why do you expect to be able to use a resource spender 100% of the time without a lot of specialising?

01/22/2013 02:03 PMPosted by superp5556

I never once said it was not intended, What i did say was that this single over the top mechanic is blocking character progression and limiting build diversity.

It's actually creating diversity by making you use different gear and passives than you would normally. What diversity is there in being able to use fleet footed/STI/OWE for every build?

01/22/2013 02:03 PMPosted by superp5556

Only now i must avoid all attack speed gear ever made.

Oh no! there are only 30+ other affixes, the chance to find an item without ias is too small to even measure!

FYI i am not asking for it to scale with mana or spirit, i want to reach my goal posts and then improve my dps. Not improve my dps and find my goal posts have moved and then further gimp my dps to reach the goal posts again.

Can't have everything. You lose som dps, but you gain speed. That's how things work.

01/22/2013 02:03 PMPosted by superp5556

Its limited in which gear i can use, not because it does not give me much dps unlike every other class, using these items can directly prevent me from using the set up.

No it doesn't, it means you can't use that skill 100% of the time. Which is exactly how it is for other classes. Look at the zero dog wd and what kind of gear sacrifices that requires. Look at what crappy+expensive item set dh has to use for almost limitless vaulting.

That you spend more resources with faster casting/attacking is like rpg logic 1.01.

Take weapons for example,

You cannot use 2 weapons as a tempest rush monk because of this mechanic, thats a huge part of monk design simply denied because of this one minor mechanic.

Now look at 2 handers, most "diablos" the weapon cannot roll good stats with spirit regen
you can either get spirit regen or good damage. This is a huge gimp right of the bat.
not only this but most "Diablos" dont even roll with 1.0 attack speed. again gimped from the beginning.

So all monks should use dual wield? You don't want diversity, you want to be more powerful without sacrificing anything.

What i want is the option to use Tempest rush for all monks with over 1.0 attack speed.

Is this a problem?

For you and your agenda maybe, maybe not. what the hell is your problem?

And just so you know you sacrifice a lot to get the base 10 spirit per second this seems to be your biggest issue, and its a basic comprehension issue. We give up massive amounts of dps to be able to get spirit in the first place. We do NOT get infinite Tempest rush for free!

Just do what most TR monks do - have two sets of gear.

[quote="77080483018"]Why do you expect to be able to use a resource spender 100% of the time without a lot of specialising?

I'm not sure about other classes, but I'm pretty sure WW Barbs uses their resource spender 100% of the time, hence either make other classes competitive or nerf Barb.

Wyatt Cheng said the design philosophy is that you can eventually get to a stage that will make you feel that you have "broken" the game. I believe that is the exactly what a WW barb is referring to, because you get to break the game mechanic limitation of limited resources through the use of advanced items (in this case, +crit with the combiation of a better than average passives/runes) which allows you to use a resource spender endlessly.

This is not the case with other classes, they do not have the same kind of freedom that Barb has. Yes, theoretically, a monk can use a infinite TR build, but there are clear limitations to it where there are none for the Barb as long as you get enough crit and into the fray (sometimes you don't even need that). There are flaws and limitations to the way TR works and the OP is referring to them, let me show you what he means.

1. You need resources to channel TR, and the faster the weapon is the more resource its costs per second. If we were to eliminate the use of spirit generators in an infinite TR build (same as eliminating fury generators in WW build), then we have a flawed game mechanic, because where as Barbs can regain their fury on crit, we have no such option, the route we are given is spirit regeneration.

But the game does not provide enough items and passives with spirit regeneration, there are only a handful ways of stacking spirit regeneration (rings, amulet, spirit stone, weapons, passives) and it is no where nearly enough to sustain TR with an one handed weapon because they scale to much. In fact, at this current build, the only logical and viable weapon is Skorn, as other two handed weapons are simply too fast and require too much resource. It is funny how we can't even use the Inna daibo because it has increased attack speed (and Flying Dragon.) In simple words, our freedom of using TR through spirit regeneration is no where close to the freedom which a Barb has for WW since all he needs is crit.

2. We are forced into using two-handed weapon because of the Guardian's Path passive. In order to get even close to the spirit regeneration required for TR, we are forced to use two-handers which provides 35% increased spirit regeneration. In other words, due to both scaling cost of attack speed on TR and the Guardian's Path, there is no other weapon feasible aside from Skorn at the moment.

3. Due to the fact that TR is forced to use Skorn, there are no item diversity with the current TR build. Where as Barbs can do infinite WW with a one-hander and a shield or dual wielding, its not remotely possible for the Monk. Monks need the options to be able to TR like the Barbs have with WW. I play hardcore so I know how much we are limited as Monk to use the TR build, by locking into Skorn, Stone of Jordan and Inna 4 piece, an average geared monk gimps their survivability down to 600 resist all, and significantly increase their chance of dying. On the contrary, the Barb gets away with WW build with a one-hander and Storm Shield, easily accumulate 1.5~2 million EHP and still do more damage than you. That is absurd.

4. TR build is further injured by the fact that you forced to use 4 piece Inna since Sweeping Wind is the only skill which increases your damage as your channeling TR. The Barbs have tornados built into their Sprint, there is no extra requirement of any kind to use Run like the Wind. If I was being judgmental here I would say "Let Monks have Sweeping Wind - Cyclone as a rune for Tempest Rush." But this is not a big gripe, since the rich can around this problem due to that they can afford Inna with all resist + single resist, but then we will get into the problem of One with Everything and that is just too much debate. What I want to say is simple, decrease the cost of Sweeping Wind so that you are not forced to lock into 4 piece Inna. And by the way, Inna's pants has attack speed, irony much?

There are a few ways the developers can fix this issue, I won't go into details of "how can developers make all classes and their resource system as efficient and on the same scaling power as Barbs have with crit", that is simply too much to talk about at the moment. Under the assumption of Barbs will not be nerfed and the current WW build is the desired "game breaking" philosophy, I will stick strictly then to how to improve the Monk and TR build so they can complete with WW build.

Solution 1: Increase the spirit regeneration on items, or increase the amount/type of items where spirit regeneration can spawn as a stat.

Pros: This will allow one-hander or dual wield TR to become possible.

Cons: This is not the ideal solution since players will just stack enough spirit regeneration to channel TR and then either go defense or dps. Everyone would still stick to using a two-hander since one-hander or dual wielding attack speed scaling require so much more spirit regeneration per second, which is the equivalent of gimping other stats.

Solution 2: Give one-handed weapons twice as much spirit regeneration as two-handed weapons have.

Pros: equalizes the spirit required to channel TR for one-handers and two-handers.

Cons: Breaks other Monk builds, since theoretically you will giving one-handers up to ~4.7 spirit regeneration per second. This maybe overkill and spirit too easily obtainable for other builds.

Solution 3: Normalize TR so that its always 1.0 attack speed (meaning it only hits once per second) and cost the same spirit regardless of weapon speed.

Pros: This is the most easy way and in my opinion the best way to fix TR.

Cons: Defies the purpose of fast/slow weapons since you will hit once per second regardless of what you are using. (Your TR no longer hits 1.xx times a second.) Proc-coefficient and "roleplay value" is something to consider here, but very minor and can be overlooked in my opinion.

Aside from these solutions, the developers should also look into The Guardian's Path and Inna's 4 piece set bonus.

I will be reposting this reply in a organized post soon.