Diablo® III

Wiz vs WD PVP

After hours of duelling i still cant come to a conclusion:

- I am badly geared or
- WD is by far the most OP class against Wiz in pvp

The best example was a WD with 200k ehp and 230k dps. It was pretty much impossible to kill him if both of us had everything ready (so no cooldown). WD tactic is pretty easy and straight forward:

- Run up with >+80% walkspeed while being invisible.
- Fear
- Spirit barage/Darts + Haunt

IF i survive that with like 3 - 20 % hp obvious things that follow are: hex and more spirit barage or darts. He had EF as a bonus so even more fear for the lulz.

Now the question is how to fight something that has a lifesaver move (which makes stacking ehp for him almost obsolete) while he can dps for a couple of seconds in his invisible mode?
If the WD has at least one single braincell he WILL get you with his fear for 1000% sure. My ehp are around 730k (slightly more) and dps around 150k.

Any thoughts on this?

http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/imperial-2358/Rapetrain/321010
Note: Pants missing, SOJ isnt calculated/im using a different ring at ptr atm.

EDIT: fear cannot be broken by mirror image, haunt is dirt cheap and can be recast, same goes for spirit barage. Did i mention the >+80% walkspeed?????.
Im not using the skillset shown in the profile.

EDIT2: Rend + Haunt = biggest BS in the game period. People just stack ehp and dont need more than 80k dps.

EDIT3: Blizzard definetly didnt test pvp even for one week. Otherwise the above mentioned BS wouldnt have made it to PTR. Yeah, i'm mad right now.
Edited by Imperial#2358 on 1/24/2013 4:45 PM PST
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you need to add #1) summon dogs, #2) all the other !@#$ you mentioned, #3) sacrifice... boom, dead... the dogs are like seeker missiles :-) ....just IMBA
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I was getting pwned by a 80k DPS WD, almost as badly as I pwn cm wizards

Definitely op
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Kill the "empty" shell left behind when he Spirit Walks.

Pre-emptively cast Mirror Image when you notice he Spirit Walked nearby. Use Slow Time to ruin his pathing. Always have Illusionist as a passive and go with Wormhole Teleport for repositioning.

Sure, they're annoying as hell, but I have way more trouble with shield monks with 1 million EHP rather than 200K DPS WDs. If you position yourself properly without letting them hit you with the full brunt of Haunt, your Storm Armor will eventually kill them (Spirit Walk has a 13 second cooldown, if you take out the "empty" shell, that's even more vulnerability for the WD).
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01/22/2013 07:20 PMPosted by eric
I was getting pwned by a 80k DPS WD


exactly how it looks for me right now

Kill the "empty" shell left behind when he Spirit Walks.

Pre-emptively cast Mirror Image when you notice he Spirit Walked nearby. Use Slow Time to ruin his pathing


Im too slow to kill the shell with one shot if the wd has at least some ehp. To cast mirror image before getting feared seems to be a great idea though. Does the bubble even work when he is in spiritwalk?

Btw how are you performing against good geared barbs atm? And how to play against them?
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Bubble doesnt work when he is in spirit walk.

WD is just retardedly OP, there is just no consistent way to beat them unless you are using a DH.
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01/22/2013 09:43 PMPosted by TasteDeath
WD is just retardedly OP, there is just no consistent way to beat them unless you are using a DH.


This. Sad to say but our skills are just way underpowered for PVP.
My mediocre geared DH, Monk and WD are tearing it up in PVP.
I struggle with my Wiz every time. Storm Armor is the only skill that gets random kills sometimes and THAT got nerfed.
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I was getting pwned by a 80k DPS WD


exactly how it looks for me right now

Kill the "empty" shell left behind when he Spirit Walks.

Pre-emptively cast Mirror Image when you notice he Spirit Walked nearby. Use Slow Time to ruin his pathing


Im too slow to kill the shell with one shot if the wd has at least some ehp. To cast mirror image before getting feared seems to be a great idea though. Does the bubble even work when he is in spiritwalk?

Btw how are you performing against good geared barbs atm? And how to play against them?


Slow Time doesn't work while they're in Spirit Walk, but it forces them to position themselves outside of it so they don't get caught in the bubble when they appear. The key is all about positioning and that takes practice. I'm no pro yet, but I've been improving over the course of multiple sample matches with high-end characters.

As for barbs, they're still jokes. Even Weapon Throw + shield barbs can't match up because Slow Time holds off all their projectiles, Leap is incredibly easy to dodge—all you need to do is Teleport in the opposite direction and they'll stun nothing. Better yet, you see them Leap, drop a bubble, Teleport toward their launch point, and fire off your attacks while they're trapped. Don't get pulled into Ground Stomp, although all you need to do is pop Mirror Image.
Edited by Jaetch#1861 on 1/23/2013 8:35 AM PST
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01/23/2013 08:34 AMPosted by Jaetch
Slow Time doesn't work while they're in Spirit Walk, but it forces them to position themselves outside of it so they don't get caught in the bubble when they appear. The key is all about positioning and that takes practice. I'm no pro yet, but I've been improving over the course of multiple sample matches with high-end characters.


I still cant get the idea, what i should do with slow time. If you have some time left, i would be glad if you could make a pvp vid against a well geared wd.

From how it looks like atm:

- WDs with way lower dps and WAAAY lower ehp can bash me without any hesitation. So PvP dummy ranking doesnt apply for my gear range at all.
- I cant apply pressure on them, its just not possible (if he stands southly) The spiders have huge range and are ridiculously good when he plays on deffence.
- I cant destroy the shell instantly when i see them pop spiritwalk. And even if, he is insta in my face (i also have 300ms lag all the time). Mirror images before fear have saved my !@# like twice. Compared to countless times where the wd simply hit the right one for whatever reason.
- I see no chances in winning against a wd who camps at the southwest corner. Cant apply pressure, cant see him but he can see me (captain obvious).
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If there a WD, I try to use blizzard(stark winter) rather than slow time. I find that they're also having a hard time with blizz. It even kills them sometimes. Blizz them and teleport in their face with calamity(yuo have to make sure they used their SW already or pray that their spirit vessel is not up yet).

EDIT: you can also add arcane orb with orbit rune so when you tele in their face they kiss your spinning orbs too! :D
Edited by Japok#6223 on 1/23/2013 7:22 PM PST
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Cover the maps in blizzards and don't confront him head on. Hug a wall/statue. And cover the map in blizzards.

I've got 13 sec long blizzards and when there's nowhere for them to safely stand while being in range of me, they either back off or die.

+7sec to blizz+ tal 4 set + astral presence = Let it Snow build.
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The worst thing is, Wiz's don't have any single target dps skills, so they are very low on dps. A barb and dh's typically use 200+% dmg skills, I'm not sure of the witch doc. The only single target skill there is is missile seeker. Against wd is like useless cuz all the missiles just aim for his pets first... same again dh. but much more so on wd.

I dont see how wiz can match up to wd.
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http://youtu.be/svWVQnSbO_s

Near the end, there was a very, very well-geared WD (270K unbuffed DPS, 400K unbuffed EHP). He basically wiped everyone in the match. I believe I went 2-4 against him. However, those were the only two times he died the entire round.
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I don't think my Wiz can beat my WD. Spirit Barrage and Haunt with Pets and high regen, very tough to beat.
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@Jaetch very cool vid man... love the song thats a remix of Metallica's Seek & Destroy! Anyways, I really like your playstyle with the set of skills, it's extremely similar to mine except you use Magic Missle/Slow Time as where I have been using Lightning Hydra/Blizzard. I like your build because you are taking FULL advantage of illusionist and adding in Slow Time as well, which is something I've been trying to figure out. I've been using Mirror Image - Mocking Demise (50% Damage/50% Stun clones) and Teleport - Fracture to detonate the clones while kiting. Works pretty well against pesky melee opponents (AND WD's/ALL THEIR PETS >_<). After watching your video however I'm going to give your build a test today and try and do some seek/destroy myself :P.
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Cover the maps in blizzards and don't confront him head on. Hug a wall/statue. And cover the map in blizzards.

I've got 13 sec long blizzards and when there's nowhere for them to safely stand while being in range of me, they either back off or die.

+7sec to blizz+ tal 4 set + astral presence = Let it Snow build.


As a WD, I can tell you this is your best chance. I have to use pets to soak some of the SA hits... but a few blizzards will eat them up right quick. Also, your best counter to WD who SW up into your face is wave of force w/ stun rune, then drop another blizzard on him.
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i find good ehp is good vs wd as with it u can survive haunts, specially if u combine good mitigation + good hp with ds. also mirror images removes the haunt from you, problem is u can get rehaunted. what i do is keep mi for when im haunted or hexed i tele the !@#$ out and cast mi. if i do get haunted again i rely on ehp and ds to take it.

if they have pet armys i find blizzard to be most usefull, that way u can hurt him and his pets besides slowing them down.
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http://youtu.be/svWVQnSbO_s

Near the end, there was a very, very well-geared WD (270K unbuffed DPS, 400K unbuffed EHP). He basically wiped everyone in the match. I believe I went 2-4 against him. However, those were the only two times he died the entire round.


Well thing is he had way lower ehp than you (700kehp less?) and still could rock the house. Thats why i belive that WD are simply OP against Wiz.

Anyway great vid man, im sure i can learn a thing or two from it. Thanks for posting it. You !@#$ed all of them pretty badly ;D

Btw this build is what im using atm against barbs and monks:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#ZQlYkT!hdW!abZcab

Had no problems against them since im using this build.

The reversal Teleport is GREAT, could even be the best rune. Just look for long passages where you can always port back. Its even possible to dodge and troll barbs with sprint and zerker.

01/24/2013 10:28 AMPosted by ximae
i find good ehp is good vs wd as with it u can survive haunts, specially if u combine good mitigation + good hp


My gear isnt GREAT or something but my 730kehp are instantly gone if wd starts his voodoo crap on me...
Edited by Imperial#2358 on 1/24/2013 4:46 PM PST
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well it would depend on how much dps the wd has. maybe havent faced really high dps ones but with high mitigation ehp, ds does wonders at absorbing a ton of the damage.

edit: just calculated with the 21k extra hp from ds my ehp is somewhere near 950k predodge vs elites
Edited by ximae#1789 on 1/24/2013 11:23 AM PST
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well it would depend on how much dps the wd has. maybe havent faced really high dps ones but with high mitigation ehp, ds does wonders at absorbing a ton of the damage.

edit: just calculated with the 21k extra hp from ds my ehp is somewhere near 950k predodge vs elites


What DPS were the WD at?
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