Diablo® III

Path of Exile Skill tree in Diablo 3

A lot of players don't really pay attention to what Blizzard has been saying when it comes to trees. People that constantly say 'WoW is dumb now that it doesn't have skill trees' don't realize that if you wanted to be competitive you had to take certain talents. Blizzard has taken that feeling away by making the required choices for you and simply giving you the free choices.


Well you guys are both comparing the passive skill tree in path of exile, to a skill tree in WoW or D2 where you aquire your actual skills through said skill tree.

The passive skill tree could add actual complexity to the game. There is no exact build like WoW or D2.
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PoE is still in Open Beta, things will change i'm sure. I can't comment on PoE as of yet, all I've done is download it last night but didn't get around to trying it yet. I can tell right from the get go with the massive skill tree that there are far more combinations on building your character than D3.. like far far more. Whether or not all of them will be useful is another story.

This is where the diversity comes in, how many times can I build a character until I find an elite one, unique one, and one that best suits my play style. Wish that was present in D3.

I havn't seen the combat yet, but I could care less if it's a step down from D3. I thought the combat system is WoW was a bit stupid, but that game kept me going for 5 years.
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01/24/2013 01:26 PMPosted by HamburgerBun
The skill tree in POE is horrible. It looks impressive but is pretty shallow.

The saying is "a mile wide and an inch deep".
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DUDE, i didnt ask´d for a change i asked about more variation and not a new gamechanging thing
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01/24/2013 01:27 PMPosted by IronKenichi
A lot of players don't really pay attention to what Blizzard has been saying when it comes to trees. People that constantly say 'WoW is dumb now that it doesn't have skill trees' don't realize that if you wanted to be competitive you had to take certain talents. Blizzard has taken that feeling away by making the required choices for you and simply giving you the free choices.


The passive skill tree could add actual complexity to the game. There is no exact build like WoW or D2.


If I give you a choice of 100 things and told everyone that they could have 20 of those things, eventually everyone will agree on which 20 things are the best out of the 100 and start picking just those things.

Welcome to theorycrafting.
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01/24/2013 01:33 PMPosted by Frostspark
If I give you a choice of 100 things and told everyone that they could have 20 of those things, eventually everyone will agree on which 20 things are the best out of the 100 and start picking just those things.


I disagree. I mean to maximize DPS you're right, there is a specific of combinations to get the maximum possible number, sure.

But people play the game differently. I personally wouldn't want to just get the maximum highest DPS. I want a more balanced character, I'd sacrifice a little of my DPS for more life or armor or evasion etc...

My point is that this freedom of choice is taken from you in D3.
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01/24/2013 11:39 AMPosted by StzA
I wouldnt complain about a skill tree for the paragon levels, things that really beef up your character. However I wouldnt want it to be like POE. That skill tree looks impressive, but youll quickly realize that most of it is just skill point allocation, such as +10 to stats. Nothin really too groundbreaking about it minus its scale.


This.

The skill gems are more interesting than the passive tree -- which is what it actually is. You go along getting tiny upgrades that don't really do much for your character until you get to that big passive that changes how you play your character, though in a relatively minor way.
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All this talk about the skill tree, when it's the gearing that makes the game. Off to play some PoE :)
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01/24/2013 01:33 PMPosted by Frostspark


The passive skill tree could add actual complexity to the game. There is no exact build like WoW or D2.


If I give you a choice of 100 things and told everyone that they could have 20 of those things, eventually everyone will agree on which 20 things are the best out of the 100 and start picking just those things.

Welcome to theorycrafting.


Not really no.

A bunch of people make take those best things to just have, but many more will take other things just for the sake of having them...

translated...

Suppose their is an optimal witch build in PoE for extreme devestation.. most everybody makes that build for farming or team play or whatever..

This next thing I can tell you with 100% certainty.. the vast majority of people who make those builds would NOT just stick to that build. There would be other characters/classes made that may be unique, goofy, ridiculous, or they might find a hidden gem. Fact is, they will be made.

So you can't sit there and say that everyone will agree on what 20 things are best, or what builds are best or whats optimal. Everybody has different flavors of play, and that will be exercised.. not like a linear path like D3.

You can't tell me that I would stick to a cookie cutter build (because I wont), you can't tell the next person they will too (because they probably won't). Hell, even yourself, how likely is it that your going to make and stick to only a cookie cutter build? Highly unlikely.

Complexity to the game
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Why is it either/or?

I think it would be cool if they let you allocate lvl 61-100 points aka paragon lvls.
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01/24/2013 01:40 PMPosted by Ignatius
I wouldnt complain about a skill tree for the paragon levels, things that really beef up your character.


Sort of sparked an idea.... what if every time you gained a paragon level, you could actually CHOOSE rather than being spoon fed X amount of dexterity, 3% magic find, X amount of vitalty etc...

You could choose each level where you wanted to allocate the points. Maybe go full into your primary stat and sacrifice your life a little bit for a few levels. I know sounds just like leveling up in D2, crazy huh
Edited by IronKenichi#1902 on 1/24/2013 1:51 PM PST
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I disagree. I mean to maximize DPS you're right, there is a specific of combinations to get the maximum possible number, sure.


Agreed.

01/24/2013 01:39 PMPosted by IronKenichi
But people play the game differently. I personally wouldn't want to just get the maximum highest DPS. I want a more balanced character, I'd sacrifice a little of my DPS for more life or armor or evasion etc...


And eventually you'd find the perfect balance and wonder why you ever thought any other combination of skills would work. If you ever wanted to have that blended survivability and damage ever again, you wouldn't think twice about using the same skills you once did because it provided you with the best results.

Optimal builds exist wherever there are options, no matter what game you're playing. There will always be a best build with a bit of playing room left over. Sure, you can choose not to use it, but then you're only hurting yourself and your progress by not doing so.


My point is that this freedom of choice is taken from you in D3.


You can sacrifice your offensive stats for defensive stats via your gear in D3. The choice is still there for you.
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01/24/2013 01:51 PMPosted by Frostspark
Optimal builds exist wherever there are options, no matter what game you're playing. There will always be a best build with a bit of playing room left over. Sure, you can choose not to use it, but then you're only hurting yourself and your progress by not doing so.


Do you remember in D2 (sorry to keep referencing it) - there were pure dex amazons, pure str barbs? They hit like a truck but could be taken down quite easily.

Maybe I'd want a total glass cannon DH, who is !@#$ for farming but is dialed in for PvP.

I understand what you're saying that the gear is there and I could just acquire an alternate set of PvP gear which focuses on Dex based items and no vitality - but isn't that just the same gear I already have minus the vitality?

It would be sweeter to be able to pump up my Dex to get to an ungodly amount of damage. Far beyond what anyone could get by using basically the same gear as everyone else plus or minus a few hundred primary stat points.
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Until an expansion drops skill trees of any kind won't be seen in Diablo III. Nor will stat allocation, additional character creation options or any option that has any permanency.

The game has been designed with one thought in mind the entire way: Simplicity. Everything from character creation to what stats to seek out on gear is excruciatingly simple. Adding layers of complexity and choice to this game would, to use a phrase popular with those from the south, be like putting ti*s on a bull.

It would accomplish exactly nothing. The bulk of the game is so simple and so straightforward that whatever choices you get to make would feel awkward and forced.

When an expansion comes down the pipe they'll have the opportunity to rethink their choices and possibly add/remove/tweak systems currently in place in favor of deeper, more thought provoking systems. Right now this game is the digital equivalent to walking up a flight of stairs.

Step 1 goes to Step 2 goes to Step 3 goes to 40 strength gets upgraded to 68 strength gets upgraded to 110 strength gets upgraded to 1.2% crit chance gets upgraded to 1.8% crit chance.

Blizzard has created a Fischer Price ARPG and taping a pair of batteries to it won't change a whole hell of a lot.
Edited by Igoz#1615 on 1/24/2013 1:59 PM PST
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01/24/2013 01:49 PMPosted by familia
All this talk about the skill tree, when it's the gearing that makes the game. Off to play some PoE :)


Played to level 14, but stopped picking up magic items. Scrolls of wisdom are hard to come by early game, which doesn't make the loot worth identifying. Itemization is only amusing because it's different, really.. Yellows and oranges are still hard to come by.
Although, the gem system is pretty cool. I'll have to keep going to see what improves.


For early game play, you only identify blue gear if they are what you really need (next tier of weapon or armor). Sell the rest (unidentified) blue and some trash yellow to the vendor for orbs (transmutation and alteration). Then if you are low on wisdom scrolls, sell some orbs to vendor for some extra wisdom scrolls (1 orb = 5 scrolls ratio I think). Once you reach higher level (30+), you'll have plenty trans and alter orbs to mess around.
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I'd rather see Diablo 3 implement something similar to Borderlands 2 "Badass Ranks". I made a thread about such a system and called it "Paragon Paths":

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592400435#5

At this point, adding such a huge passive skill tree to Diablo 3 would be dumb, because Diablo 3 wasn't built to support such a system. I think a system similar to what I put forth in my Paragon Path thread would be easier to implement, and more in line with current design decisions.
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I would rather have the Materia Gem system or upgradable items than a skill tree. The former are more compatible with D3 in its current form.
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