Diablo® III

Path of Exile Skill tree in Diablo 3

01/24/2013 01:43 PMPosted by battletag
All this talk about the skill tree, when it's the gearing that makes the game. Off to play some PoE :)


Gearing, and skill gems.

The passive tree is only that massive because they put all the options in one place. Put all the D2 options for every class in one tree, and mix in the stat selection options as individual nodes, and you'd have a fairly large tree as well.

That's why the system ultimately works for this game - it's a lot less like going down a tree like you did in D2, TL2, or the old talent tree version in WoW, and more like putting together a deck like you would in Magic the Gathering.

Gear+Passive Tree+Skill Gems is your deck, and allows for quite a bit of customization. Section it off, like D2 did, and you'd have the exact same issue Blizzard had.
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Well beside all those things but only 4 skills 3 passivs and some runes are not the style of Blizzard .I miss a big thing from diablo 2 were you have the options to do soooo much different things ... I mean just take a look at the old Necromancer ^^
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100 Night Elf Hunter
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01/24/2013 02:44 PMPosted by Oneeyedwilly
No, the Blizzard fan bois would never ever EVER be able to understand this. It would confuse them to much, we can't have that.


No it wouldn't. The skill tree is very simple, at least in the beginning stages. Maybe that'll change in the upper levels, but right now there's nothing complicated about it at all.
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01/24/2013 03:56 PMPosted by Ryaskybird
No, the Blizzard fan bois would never ever EVER be able to understand this. It would confuse them to much, we can't have that.


No it wouldn't. The skill tree is very simple, at least in the beginning stages. Maybe that'll change in the upper levels, but right now there's nothing complicated about it at all.

Shhh... don't spoil their delusions. They've got this whole "complexity equals depth" thing going on.
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No it wouldn't. The skill tree is very simple, at least in the beginning stages. Maybe that'll change in the upper levels, but right now there's nothing complicated about it at all.

Shhh... don't spoil their delusions. They've got this whole "complexity equals depth" thing going on.


Obviously I'm a PoE fan, but I sorta agree...at least with the part about people having this whole "complexity equals depth" thing going on.

If you watch videos and read interviews with the devs, one thing you might notice is how little they talk about the passive tree. A lot of fans like to point at it and say "look, choices and complexity" when it is only 1/3 of character customization and, outside of the keystones, is more based around supporting the customization options of skill gems and gear.

Watch a video of Chris Wilson (Lead Producer) discussing the game, and he - especially lately - spends more time talking about the maps system and about combining skill gems, such as taking a simple fireball skill, and using 3 different support gems to turn it into a totem that spits multiple fireballs that split into even more fireballs when they hit a target. For the longer videos, he will usually also bring up the barter system, and how every item that drops has an additional use beyond just being currency, giving every item that drops an inherent value, and how you can upgrade gear with orbs, etc.

There are definitely plenty of choices available to players when it comes to building a character (and as I mentioned here and above, it's not just about the passive tree), and it's in having choices that a game creates depth.

Even Diablo 3 has quite a bit of depth when it comes to skill and skill rune choices; what it mostly lacks is a lot of choice when it comes to gear. There just aren't many options when it comes to choosing what stats you want on gear, nor are there really many interesting combinations/unusual builds made around stat/skill rune choices or legendary items. There are several builds in PoE that actually rely on having a specific unique - if there's an equivalent version in D3, I am not aware of it.

It also doesn't have that sense of character permanence that comes with creating a character built around a specific idea, but I don't think having it or not having it is a matter of being right or wrong...it's simply one valid playstyle (flexibility) versus another (greater degree of permanence). That's another rabbit hole, though...don't get me started on the debate on what makes a particular game mechanic "right" or "wrong" or "outdated."
Edited by Berethos#1965 on 1/24/2013 6:13 PM PST
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10 Human Rogue
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I'm downloading PoE right now to try it out. Can't say yet whether or not it's superior to D3 or if it's FFX SphereGrid-like system would work in D3 or not, but I'll say this: if the Duelist plays the way I'm hoping it does, that's a huge selling point for me, because I want a lithe dexterity-based melee combatant that uses a single sword, and in D3 I either get to choose the Barb (which is strength-based and lacks finesse) or the Monk (which is dex-based but hardly ever uses weapons).

So yeah, I'll let you know. ^_^
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I'm downloading PoE right now to try it out. Can't say yet whether or not it's superior to D3 or if it's FFX SphereGrid-like system would work in D3 or not, but I'll say this: if the Duelist plays the way I'm hoping it does, that's a huge selling point for me, because I want a lithe dexterity-based melee combatant that uses a single sword, and in D3 I either get to choose the Barb (which is strength-based and lacks finesse) or the Monk (which is dex-based but hardly ever uses weapons).

So yeah, I'll let you know. ^_^
There are no fixed "classes" in PoE. Individual classes only differ where they start on the passive skill tree. This means that you must stick to your starting area during the first couple of levels and then you can branch out anywhere. People create a character of a certain class not because it comes with a specific playstyle but because with that class it is the easiest to reach nodes they want to take.
Edited by Elexar#2219 on 1/25/2013 4:13 AM PST
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yeah and actually i see more variant build that in diablo 2


I still play d2. There really are only a handful of viable builds past level 80 if you want maximum efficiency. Sure you can pick some variant for fun, but again... the real end game to d2 or d3 for that matter is farming efficiency. So, again... illusion of diversity is not worthwhile.


idk, i have a barb n for low mp farming i use ww / over power but my friends remplace overpower by rend n my other friends gen fury with leap n charge we are all good n we farm fast its a fact not a ilusion
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01/24/2013 11:47 AMPosted by FooTWO
What is that crazy mess called a skill tree?


I agree with this. There are skill trees, and then there's the PoE version. Too many options, and none of them interesting. I'd love to see a skill tree in D3, but this one would be awful. A skill tree is supposed to have skills, not 100% passive abilities. Also using gems and sockets as the actual skill tree makes even less sense to me.
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70 Human Warrior
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01/24/2013 12:32 PMPosted by Midnite


pls tell me about the all the different builds in d3. I'll wait for it.


ww spec

sprint spec

bash spec

battle rage spec

war cry spec

wotb spec

there.


he asked for builds. not what skills you use on your bar.

You do remember what a build is right?
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70 Human Warrior
980
Posts: 87
What is that crazy mess called a skill tree?


I agree with this. There are skill trees, and then there's the PoE version. Too many options, and none of them interesting. I'd love to see a skill tree in D3, but this one would be awful. A skill tree is supposed to have skills, not 100% passive abilities. Also using gems and sockets as the actual skill tree makes even less sense to me.


thats because its not a SKILL tree. its a passive tree. Its for stats and character modifications based on what gear or lack of gear you have as well as what mobs you personally have a problem fightning or your personal weakness in the game.

Skills come from gems and support gems.

What doesnt make any sense to me, is to give every character every skill so that everyone is the same and all they have to do is sawp out whatever they want at any given time completlely destroying replayability.

I mean look how well diablo 3 is doing.....
Edited by madbrownkid#1134 on 1/28/2013 11:50 AM PST
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I'm confused here. People keep talking about skills in PoE, but then they refer to the passive tree. You choose your skills by chosing your weapons and gems. You choose your passives (base stats, attack speeds, cast speeds, crit chance, etc) from the passive tree.

The passive tree is complex. Does this add depth? To an extent. Does it equal depth? No. Does increasing monster health and damage accross 11 different levels and adding 100 paragon levels to farm add depth? To an extent. Does it equal depth? No.

At the end of the day someone will crunch the numbers on all the different possibilities and mathematically prove what starting class and passive spec comes out with the most effective farming build. The difference is that PoE pulled the majority of the passive stats off the items allowing players to customize their characters to a greater extent; without having to spend hundreds millions on the AH to experiment with different equipment combinations. Neither system is perfect. Personally I feel like D3 took away a lot of what I enjoyed about D1 and D2. PoE has tried to improve on what I enjoyed about D1 and D2; and so far I believe they did that.
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Ahhh, but Swagnificint, not everyone can use every Skill. Every Skill is tied to a stat (strength, dexterity, intelligence), and you need to meet that stat requirement. I play a Marauder focusing on strength. I basically cannot use any Skill outside of Strength based gems, because I simply don't meet the requirements. You can use the Passive Tree to get the stats you need, or you can use itemization to up your stats to get the stats you need. That's the beauty of the Passive Tree, the Skill gems, and the itemization - all three work WITH the player to allow for such a depth of customization.

Unlike Diablo 3 where every level 60 Barbarian is the same as every other level 60 Barbarian whom has access to the exact same skills, and focuses on pretty much the exact same stats.
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Bump! It is badly needed for build diversity.
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take my elegant minimal system and replace it with a coloring book mix and match 5 year old skill set? no tks. PoE is bad. You could put D3 skills in the same disorganized cool looking tree and it would be about the same. Sorry if I don't need some flashy chart to show me what to do.
Edited by darkthrone#1400 on 1/28/2013 9:20 PM PST
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