Diablo® III

EHP for PVP

So as acrimony likes to think EHP is huge for pvp.

I disagree with him simply because i feel "Effective" HP for duelling and PVP is different.

Things that need to be discounted from the normal EHP formula for duelling:

1)Block chance.(Completely discounted) block amount is too low to matter in PvP
2) dodge because of its inconsistency and sporadic use.
3) Reduced damage from melee attacks (since it only applies to phys damage.)
4) Reduced damage from ranged attacks ((since it only applies to phys damage.)
5) Reduced damage from elites ( PvP is about burst dmg and skill and movememnt) if you keep dodging and playing smart you'll be fine especially against ranged classes. That 7% wont help at all if a WD catches u with haunt/hex or a 400 unbuffed DH gets a few hits off on you)

SnB barbs are realizing this now the most.

Things to be given more importance:
1)Overall HP
2)All res ( simply because of its consistency and reliability)

Thoughts?
Edited by SoLiDAlvi#1156 on 1/21/2013 8:04 AM PST
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So as acrimony likes to think EHP is huge for pvp.

I disagree with him simply because i feel "Effective" HP for duelling and PVP is different.

Things that need to be discounted from the normal EHP formula for duelling:

1)Block chance.(Completely discounted) block amount is too low to matter in PvP
2) dodge because of its inconsistency and sporadic use.
3) Reduced damage from melee attacks (since it only applies to phys damage.)
4) Reduced damage from ranged attacks ((since it only applies to phys damage.)
5) Reduced damage from elites ( PvP is about burst dmg and skill and movememnt) if you keep dodging and playing smart you'll be fine especially against ranged classes. That 7% wont help at all if a WD catches u with haunt/hex or a 400 unbuffed DH gets a few hits off on you)

SnB barbs are realizing this now the most.

Things to be given more importance:
1)Overall HP
2)All res ( simply because of its consistency and reliability)

Thoughts?


I disagree.

After having watched Jook vs REVRAC.

>.<

EHP I feel, does matter. But it's benefit is too small to be measured unless you're comparing between someone with 5m EHP and someone with 1m EHP.

Remember how REVRAC was @!!#!!%#@% both of us and how Jook was able to tank all that?

Yeah. :/

Edit: Oh and I disagree with dodge as well. Yes it's not noticeable for players with lower non dodge EHP, i.e. you taking 3 hits without dying dodge isn't going to help you very much.

However, if you take 20+ hits before dying? Dodge is going to matter.
Edited by Uberjager#6563 on 1/21/2013 8:25 AM PST
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No wonder I can't sell my stormshield. =(
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Going to disagree. Some avoidance (dodge) mixed with mitigation (block mitigation, armor, resistance) makes a high health pool last longer. You can't discount them entirely, as it is what multiplies your EHP. Large VIT is good for inspiring presence returns, but it is a mix of mitigation and avoidance that multiplies your health pool. Block can also completely shield you from smaller, faster hits if your mitigation is high enough.
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the only thing im discounting completely is block. everything else im just saying is less important to EHP for PvP than it is currently thought to be.

Also uber let me import my new gear. I'm pretty sure i can take Revrac =D
Edited by SoLiDAlvi#1156 on 1/21/2013 8:35 AM PST
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Why are you discounting block? 34% is one-third of all hits.
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the only thing im discounting completely is block. everything else im just saying is less important to EHP for PvP than it is currently thought to be.

Also uber let me import my new gear. I'm pretty sure i can take Revrac =D


The set you have in your profile now?

If so... I have my reservations. :X

01/21/2013 08:42 AMPosted by Garthandal
Why are you discounting block? 34% is one-third of all hits.

Because blocking 4500 dmg when you have 100k life is peanuts unless its hitting you 20 times a second.


Doesn't mean it should be discounted either. Obviously you won't negate alot of damage from nukes. But from low damage/ fast attacks... why not?
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The key is low HP, much DR and huge lifereg. That results in the highest EHP/s ratio.
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01/21/2013 08:53 AMPosted by Quabbe
The key is low HP, much DR and huge lifereg. That results in the highest EHP/s ratio.


I... don't suppose you've fought 200k-300k monks/DHs/ Wizards before?

>.>
Edited by Uberjager#6563 on 1/21/2013 8:54 AM PST
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01/21/2013 09:04 AMPosted by Garthandal
Doesn't mean it should be discounted either. Obviously you won't negate alot of damage from nukes. But from low damage/ fast attacks... why not?

The only reason I would not is to use a 2 hander for more rend dps, but a good shield with the right stats( high life and str ect.) can help in certain situations or give you the ehp needed to survive a bit longer and sometimes that all you need. I was using a crappy Burning axe of Sankis and a shield and it upped my survivability but against an opponent with high life/regen it was pretty weak.


The reason why I never used a shield is because it would be too expensive and I'm well known for being a cheapskate.

._.
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The key is low HP, much DR and huge lifereg. That results in the highest EHP/s ratio.


I... don't suppose you've fought 200k-300k monks/DHs/ Wizards before?

>.>

A lot.

The thing is, I have 3 mil tEHP (~8 mil EHP with block / dodge), 110k HP and 4.3k lifereg. That means, I get 120k tEHP / 320k EHP per second. Any incoming dmg below this amount will be negated. Since the opponent usually runs around (Wiz / DH) and is not bursting constantly dmg, I don't fear 300k dps DHs or Wizards that much.

Versus monks I use a run and stun tactic. Leap -> Rend -> Sprint. Waiting for CD and again. If the monk comes to close -> Stomp -> Rend -> Sprint. Yeah, that's lame. But versus high dps monks it was the first thing I found out which works well. The direct confrontation was not very successful.
Edited by Quabbe#2336 on 1/21/2013 9:12 AM PST
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THe only thing i agree is the large HP. and huge life regen in a barb and a decent amount of REsistance. ANd quabble Low hp means 2 shot from 400k dps DH. I totally agree with uberjagger. nobdy would want a 50k hp when facerolling a wd and a DH with massive dps. I myself have 160k HP 5.5k life regen, 560 AR and 130k dps when dueling . I find it easy to kite and rend players. Still looking for a good IK iron though.
Edited by Raygorn#6762 on 1/21/2013 9:17 AM PST
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01/21/2013 08:53 AMPosted by Quabbe
The key is low HP, much DR and huge lifereg. That results in the highest EHP/s ratio.


lol you wouldn't last 2 secs vs. boro with that setup :/.

Boro is the ONLY monk that rips through my ignore pain + crushing adv (I know longer use crushing adv now vs. monks, used it in old build).. He can also kill Iria, but not as fast as my WoTB HoTA (obviously). The only way I can kill Boro is with WoTB (and it's consistent) because of the extra dodge.

Boro uses 3 regen resources then switches so, that's why he's able to 1-2-3 shot me. WoTB is fair under those circumstances :P.

Ambrosia is another monk that can one-shot me if I don't play careful, but I currently have the upper hand.

Once the PVP patch goes live and I hit P100 I doubt I can lose to 99% of monks ever again unless SoJ's are OP.
Edited by FeRMi#1453 on 1/21/2013 9:19 AM PST
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THe only thing i agree is the large HP. and huge life regen in a barb and a decent amount of REsistance. ANd garthandal Low hp means 2 shot from 400k dps DH. I totally agree with uberjagger. nobdy would want a 50k hp when facerolling a wd and a DH with massive dps. I myself have 160k HP 5.5k life regen, 560 AR and 130k dps when dueling . I find it easy to kite and rend players. Still looking for a good IK iron though.

Sure, I don't mean 20k HP or something like that with low HP. Of course we need our big HP pool. But if we can reach 4 mil EHP with 80k HP, that's much better as if we had 4 mil EHP with 120k HP - with the same lifereg. And with less HP-stats its easier to get more lifereg-stats.
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01/21/2013 09:20 AMPosted by Quabbe
THe only thing i agree is the large HP. and huge life regen in a barb and a decent amount of REsistance. ANd garthandal Low hp means 2 shot from 400k dps DH. I totally agree with uberjagger. nobdy would want a 50k hp when facerolling a wd and a DH with massive dps. I myself have 160k HP 5.5k life regen, 560 AR and 130k dps when dueling . I find it easy to kite and rend players. Still looking for a good IK iron though.

Sure, I don't mean 20k HP or something like that with low HP. Of course we need our big HP pool. But if we can reach 4 mil EHP with 80k HP, that's much better as if we had 4 mil EHP with 120k HP - with the same lifereg. And with less HP-stats its easier to get more lifereg-stats.


Life regen on gear usually takes up a more valuable roll. >.>

Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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the only thing im discounting completely is block. everything else im just saying is less important to EHP for PvP than it is currently thought to be.

Also uber let me import my new gear. I'm pretty sure i can take Revrac =D


The set you have in your profile now?

If so... I have my reservations. :X


lol. u know that aint it.

i feel this debate will only be settled through duelling. And uber you lost there =P
Edited by SoLiDAlvi#1156 on 1/21/2013 9:32 AM PST
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[quote="77083877598"]
On another note:
Is IAS a waste in PVP? Is it false DPS in this situation? Sure for smaller hits you will hit at a higher rate but for rend or other high dps hits would CD take the front seat?


yup it pretty much is. unless ure doing barb v barb. or running a frenzy build.
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