Diablo® III

EHP for PVP



just use a rare shield with same stats. but 200 more vit. would you rather take 200 more vit or 10% more chance to block?

400k crit after 70% reduction which most barbs have approx is 32k(not including inherent 30% less dmg taken). 7 percent of that is 2300 dmg approx.

I am not advocating giving up shield.
im advocating using a rare instead of SS


I can see your point, but I do think the 7% reduction is going to play out very well.

Both are great options IMO. I personally feel the dmg reduction is going to be big, especially coupled with the litany, where you can get 14% dmg reduction. On top of the dmg reduction already calculated that you mentioned above (Armor, AR, and 30% Reduction for being a barb).

Im not great at math, so take in my armor and AR values when I have way cry on.... and these are rough estimates with my current PVP set up (Using a SOJ and Havent found any Rare bracer yet.. keep that in mind)

13,041 Armor - 81.30 %
840 AR - 73.68
30% For being a Barb
14% DMG Reduce from SS and Litany

How much would say a 500K crit do against my barb? I have 23% Melee and 4% ranged reduce as well, so take you pick on if I am getting hit with a ranged or melee attack.

I am not trying to create an argument here, just trying to get some info out there and some help, since my math is just... ya.... not great!

Thanks!


nikeboy had 120k hp. and an insane amount of melee reduction. ofc the elite dmg reduction wasnt applying then. ask him what happened when i HOTA'd him. we were both SO surprised. well i less cuz ide done the same to other barbs with really high EHP.

when i crit for 2m with hota it doesnt really matter. all i need is 4 sec stun
with stomp. and 2 sec iwth leap. and ill get enough HOTA's off to destroy 50m EHP. this is without Ignore pain active ofcourse.

14% reduction can play a huge role though you are right. at 7 im not too convinced. we shall have to wait and see.
Reply Quote
01/21/2013 10:54 AMPosted by Garthandal
Here's my take on pvp gear. I have 112k hp, 10.7k armor, 69k dps, 31.5% dodge, 34% block, 4.2k life regen, 24% movement speed, Fury regen from 5 peice IK and unforgiving, 670 AR, 49.5% cc, 180% cd, 900 LoH, 14% reduced dmg from elites/players, -5 fury cost weapon throw.

69k dps is not gonna cut it, imagine going up against a barb with your EHP stats and 3 times your dps or better.


im sure ill change up my items/build vs a barb. it would still be a long !@# battle though.
Reply Quote
Since rend is the main attack, the stat on the shield trumps the stat on any OH weapon in pvp. Attack speed is close to worthless. To maximize the dps is to maximize the chance of generating a crit rend. The additional CC helps a lot more than the CD that comes with the OH weapon.
Reply Quote
01/21/2013 10:50 AMPosted by FeRMi
There are shields out there that can outperform SS for sure, check my profile as I was able to grab one. Rare Sacred can roll block% as well, granted not as high as a SS, but it's up there. The one I carry got 150str and 190vit, pretty sure from EHP perspective this is much better than a SS, and it does not lack in the damage department either.


Only is it better from an HP standpoint. Once elite % kicks in your shield will be outperformed unless you use inspiring presence and have massive life%.


Sort of, I did some calculations, it's performance without nerves of steel, and life % is almost exactly the same as SS With elite reduction plus melee reduction added together. However when life % is added on, let's say 30 life% from helm another 10% from shoulders you end up with quite a bit more life.
Reply Quote
01/21/2013 11:12 AMPosted by rickjames


Only is it better from an HP standpoint. Once elite % kicks in your shield will be outperformed unless you use inspiring presence and have massive life%.


Sort of, I did some calculations, it's performance without nerves of steel, and life % is almost exactly the same as SS With elite reduction plus melee reduction added together. However when life % is added on, let's say 30 life% from helm another 10% from shoulders you end up with quite a bit more life.


Yup exactly.
Reply Quote
I think people are forgetting that right now, we're still feeling each other out (and in some cases, copping feels like it's prom night). There are different strategies for different classes; it is starting to dawn on me how any build has a weakness to class specific advantages.

I know that if I am going up against a Demon Hunter and Monk, I would want to go sword and board because I need an ability to negate and mitigate the incoming damage; forcing players to use up their resources before I go all in on offense. I know that if I am facing the Witch Doctors or Wizards, I need to spec to my Throw Barbarian.

In every sense of the word, mitigating damage is supposed to be the Barbarian's top class utility. High vitality is one thing, high damage mitigation is another. When I could get my damage mitigation up into the +85%, I was nearly impossible to kill for monks and demon hunters. But it ties back into how you spec and how you approach the fight.

Going out into the open is just stupid -- many of you know that. Going out into the open against a top-tier Demon Hunter is suicide, you all know this. But EHP allows you take risks you wouldn't be able to otherwise. EHP gives you room to make mistakes. EHP allows you to wear the other player(s) down. EHP gives you the advantage against high damage classes because their EHP is an inflation of vitality; not armour, resistances, melee damage reduction, etc.

At the moment, all I know is that some of the unique affixes like bonus to elites damage aren't working as intended. I think we should avoid jumping to conclusions about the distinctions between a Sacred Shield and Stornshield before we dismiss either/or.
Reply Quote
I think people are forgetting that right now, we're still feeling each other out (and in some cases, copping feels like it's prom night). There are different strategies for different classes; it is starting to dawn on me how any build has a weakness to class specific advantages.

I know that if I am going up against a Demon Hunter and Monk, I would want to go sword and board because I need an ability to negate and mitigate the incoming damage; forcing players to use up their resources before I go all in on offense. I know that if I am facing the Witch Doctors or Wizards, I need to spec to my Throw Barbarian.

In every sense of the word, mitigating damage is supposed to be the Barbarian's top class utility. High vitality is one thing, high damage mitigation is another. When I could get my damage mitigation up into the +85%, I was nearly impossible to kill for monks and demon hunters. But it ties back into how you spec and how you approach the fight.

Going out into the open is just stupid -- many of you know that. Going out into the open against a top-tier Demon Hunter is suicide, you all know this. But EHP allows you take risks you wouldn't be able to otherwise. EHP gives you room to make mistakes. EHP allows you to wear the other player(s) down. EHP gives you the advantage against high damage classes because their EHP is an inflation of vitality; not armour, resistances, melee damage reduction, etc.

At the moment, all I know is that some of the unique affixes like bonus to elites damage aren't working as intended. I think we should avoid jumping to conclusions about the distinctions between a Sacred Shield and Stornshield before we dismiss either/or.


What conclusions?

Stormshield 34% w/ CC, Dodge & with Block:

Effective HP: 2178924
vs. Magic: 2178924
vs. Melee: 3567718
vs. Ranged: 2178924
vs. Elite: 2350479

Vs.

Sacred Shield 17% with CC, Dodge & with Block:
Effective HP: 2337005
vs. Magic: 2337005
vs. Melee: 3267848
vs. Ranged: 2337005
vs. Elite: 2337005

+ 400 regen from IP

When I hit paragon 100

with Dodge & with Block:
Effective HP: 2309720
vs. Magic: 2309720
vs. Melee: 3781882
vs. Ranged: 2309720
vs. Elite: 2491574

vs.

with Dodge & with Block:
Effective HP: 2463201
vs. Magic: 2463201
vs. Melee: 3444309
vs. Ranged: 2463201
vs. Elite: 2463201

+ 520 regen from IP
Edited by FeRMi#1453 on 1/21/2013 11:52 AM PST
Reply Quote
I think people are forgetting that right now, we're still feeling each other out (and in some cases, copping feels like it's prom night). There are different strategies for different classes; it is starting to dawn on me how any build has a weakness to class specific advantages.

I know that if I am going up against a Demon Hunter and Monk, I would want to go sword and board because I need an ability to negate and mitigate the incoming damage; forcing players to use up their resources before I go all in on offense. I know that if I am facing the Witch Doctors or Wizards, I need to spec to my Throw Barbarian.

In every sense of the word, mitigating damage is supposed to be the Barbarian's top class utility. High vitality is one thing, high damage mitigation is another. When I could get my damage mitigation up into the +85%, I was nearly impossible to kill for monks and demon hunters. But it ties back into how you spec and how you approach the fight.

Going out into the open is just stupid -- many of you know that. Going out into the open against a top-tier Demon Hunter is suicide, you all know this. But EHP allows you take risks you wouldn't be able to otherwise. EHP gives you room to make mistakes. EHP allows you to wear the other player(s) down. EHP gives you the advantage against high damage classes because their EHP is an inflation of vitality; not armour, resistances, melee damage reduction, etc.

At the moment, all I know is that some of the unique affixes like bonus to elites damage aren't working as intended. I think we should avoid jumping to conclusions about the distinctions between a Sacred Shield and Stornshield before we dismiss either/or.


What conclusions?

Stormshield 34% w/ CC, Dodge & with Block:

Effective HP: 2178924
vs. Magic: 2178924
vs. Melee: 3567718
vs. Ranged: 2178924
vs. Elite: 2350479

Vs.

Sacred Shield 17% with CC, Dodge & with Block:
Effective HP: 2337005
vs. Magic: 2337005
vs. Melee: 3267848
vs. Ranged: 2337005
vs. Elite: 2337005


I will agree that the affix rolls can be useful with the Sacred Shields, but apparently some of the affixes like melee damage reduction and reduction to elite damage isn't working as intended. I think it was someone I had some disagreements with who said that EHP can work to an extent, but if you inflate it with vitality, all you're doing is buying time, not mitigating damage.

On my Hardcore character, I tried a heavily affixed Sacred Shield with average block and Stormshield with Blackthorne's spurs before I started questing. The difference between the two shields is pretty large against elites, which is where the division lies right now.
Reply Quote
...


I will agree that the affix rolls can be useful with the Sacred Shields, but apparently some of the affixes like melee damage reduction and reduction to elite damage isn't working as intended. I think it was someone I had some disagreements with who said that EHP can work to an extent, but if you inflate it with vitality, all you're doing is buying time, not mitigating damage.

On my Hardcore character, I tried a heavily affixed Sacred Shield with average block and Stormshield with Blackthorne's spurs before I started questing. The difference between the two shields is pretty large against elites, which is where the division lies right now.


I edited my post to show that @ P100 a stormshield will never be better than my scared shield. Although everyone's condition like you say is different.
Edited by FeRMi#1453 on 1/21/2013 12:00 PM PST
Reply Quote
I just can't wait till I have the time to load the ptr and then walk into duels and stand there to see what happens.

Have you found that people simply have no regen other than their Life Steal or LoH? Does the damage you mitigate reduce the amount of Life they gain from LS, such as with health linked mobs?
Reply Quote
I just can't wait till I have the time to load the ptr and then walk into duels and stand there to see what happens.

Have you found that people simply have no regen other than their Life Steal or LoH? Does the damage you mitigate reduce the amount of Life they gain from LS, such as with health linked mobs?


Lifesteal gains are non-existent in PVP :P
Reply Quote
01/21/2013 11:56 AMPosted by FeRMi


I will agree that the affix rolls can be useful with the Sacred Shields, but apparently some of the affixes like melee damage reduction and reduction to elite damage isn't working as intended. I think it was someone I had some disagreements with who said that EHP can work to an extent, but if you inflate it with vitality, all you're doing is buying time, not mitigating damage.

On my Hardcore character, I tried a heavily affixed Sacred Shield with average block and Stormshield with Blackthorne's spurs before I started questing. The difference between the two shields is pretty large against elites, which is where the division lies right now.


I edited my post to show that @ P100 a stormshield will never be better than my scared shield. Although everyone's condition like you say is different.


As I said in my previous post, EHP needs a new definition because it doesn't truly show the mitigated damage; armour, resistances, damage reduction, high dodge, etc., does the mitigation. High vitality only leaves room to compensate for what your damage mitigation cannot reduce. Block amount, I'm starting to realise, won't do a lot of damage mitigation against high powered opponents, but it does stack over time if you can mitigate damage over time.

We're both in agreement about life-regeneration, life-on-hit, etc., but we aren't in agreement about the Stormshields vs. Sacred Shield. Until we can observe the damage reduction, I don't think it's possible to make any conclusions just yet. The PTR is very buggy right now.
Reply Quote
Some should test a high ehp thorns build, im sure the mitigation might make it ineffective but its somethin i've been pondering
Reply Quote
01/21/2013 11:56 AMPosted by FeRMi


I will agree that the affix rolls can be useful with the Sacred Shields, but apparently some of the affixes like melee damage reduction and reduction to elite damage isn't working as intended. I think it was someone I had some disagreements with who said that EHP can work to an extent, but if you inflate it with vitality, all you're doing is buying time, not mitigating damage.

On my Hardcore character, I tried a heavily affixed Sacred Shield with average block and Stormshield with Blackthorne's spurs before I started questing. The difference between the two shields is pretty large against elites, which is where the division lies right now.


I edited my post to show that @ P100 a stormshield will never be better than my scared shield. Although everyone's condition like you say is different.


Your EHP against elites is higher with your stormshield. Thats all that matters in PVP.
Reply Quote
hey guys obviously I'm not able to test this gear out, however, before I start gearing for damage again I want to make sure that the "one shot" issue is out of the door..Main stats other than life/allres/armor are life reg/block/elite dmge reduction..(player=elite)

just waiting to test this gear out..

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Acebomb-1572/hero/27729576
Reply Quote


I edited my post to show that @ P100 a stormshield will never be better than my scared shield. Although everyone's condition like you say is different.


Your EHP against elites is higher with your stormshield. Thats all that matters in PVP.


I'm inclined to agree. The numbers he posted reflects that, but it raises another problem because EHP needs to be redefined once again. I don't think high vitality is a good indication of a players ability to mitigate damage. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to kill Nikeboy or Joch or anyone else.
Reply Quote


Your EHP against elites is higher with your stormshield. Thats all that matters in PVP.


I'm inclined to agree. The numbers he posted reflects that, but it raises another problem because EHP needs to be redefined once again. I don't think high vitality is a good indication of a players ability to mitigate damage. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to kill Nikeboy or Joch or anyone else.


I just think that my barb, with a very poor build and not that much HP compared to a lot of the barbs I went against did very well, especially against other classes, because my mitigation is pretty good and this is without the elite reduction in play. Detox, who has very high mitigation did very well as well and his HP wasnt the highest I had seen either.

Basically my thoughts are that yeah HP is great, you did a little more regen from inspiring presence as well, but for regen to work better, you need more mitigation. When it comes down to it, in PVP, players are doing a TON of damage, so even 1% more reduction can be a lot. Think about a Hota crit for 1 mil... 1% is like 10K less damage. Much better than getting 500 more life regen per second. You guys see where I am going with this?
Reply Quote
BALLER!

YOU AND ME.

PVP.

LETS DO IT

=D
Reply Quote


I edited my post to show that @ P100 a stormshield will never be better than my scared shield. Although everyone's condition like you say is different.


Thats all that matters in PVP.


I disagree strongly because juggernaut gains are more life as well as more breathing room with relentless, and that's in addition to more life regen.
Reply Quote
BALLER!

YOU AND ME.

PVP.

LETS DO IT

=D


LOL but my damage reduce isnt working yet :) or is it?

Add me up.... Baller#1390

I should be on the PTR tonight.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]