Diablo® III

Monster density: Let's be honest

I would prefer a new area, like a arena or evan a few differnt ones about the sizes of the main boss's of each act, in which you fight white trash for 3 - 5 matchs and then on the 4th, 5th or 6th you get a blue or gold group, as you go up in matchs the amount of mobs slowly grows in number the blue and gold mobs get harder and so on, also when you get higher and higher up in rounds you might start getting 2 sets of blue or gold and as far as if you get past 100 matchs you might get 3 sets of either , they could also make it unlimited matchs, see how far people can really go, have it registed in the armory how many rounds people have be able to defeat on there characters. Completeing a match would grant a stack of valor or refresh your valor. Once you complete a round you get a 2 minute timer to bank and sell and what else you wish to do. They could also evan add specal items for making threw a certain amount of rounds, like patterns, 50 rounds you get say gloves, boots and braces patterns that make a set with a bonus, 100 rounds you get pants chest shoulders with a set bonus for those 3 items, 150 rounds you get helm ring neck, with a differnt set bonus again!

Anyways that just my idea instead of monster density!
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Act 2 Vault of Assassin is a good example of a preferable mob density. Though much more elites than other areas. Act 1 requires far too many way points to get your 5 stacks quickly. Act 4 too many big mobs not enough small ones.
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01/24/2013 11:03 PMPosted by Dangg
Act 2 Vault of Assassin is a good example of a preferable mob density. Though much more elites than other areas. Act 1 requires far too many way points to get your 5 stacks quickly. Act 4 too many big mobs not enough small ones.


but even in the vault you have periods, sometimes 1/3 of the map, with nothing!
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01/23/2013 08:26 AMPosted by ChemistCarl
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592581161?page=18#348


Excellent!

Correct me if I'm wrong (but I'm probably not, I played D2 for over a decade), but you'd RARELY walk more than a screen or two in Diablo 2 without seeing a bunch of monsters. Sometimes in D3 I don't even need to use my left hand.. cuz.. I'm just.. walking around with nothing to kill.. boring..
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I think there are multiple reasons behind the desire for scaling monster density for the players who are asking for it. The first one that comes to mind is not the self-serving need to squeak out insane farming efficiency (there are some who seem to definitely want this), but the desire to feel that they are not losing efficiency when farming anything other than Act III. We definitely want people to farm multiple Acts, so we are discussing options to achieve that goal.

Your ideas on the subject are certainly welcome (in fact, the question of "what mob density would you choose?" is a great one to debate) and we hope that you will continue post them.

Monster Density per act on 1-10 feels like

Act 1 --> 3
Act 2 --> 4 (8 in areas like Assassin's Vault)
Act 3 --> 7-8
Act 4 --> 6

It should be
Act 1 --> 3
Act 2 --> 4
Act 3 --> 5
Act 4 --> 6

MP 1
Act 1 --> 5
Act 2 --> 6
Act 3 --> 7
Act 4 --> 8

MP5
Act 1 --> 6
Act 2 --> 7
Act 3 --> 8
Act 4 --> 9

MP10
Act 1 --> 7
Act 2 --> 8
Act 3 --> 9
Act 4 --> 10
Edited by Zinqf#1619 on 1/25/2013 1:05 AM PST
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A4 really doesn't need more Monster Density. Well maybe a tiny tiny bit more. For the size of the act it has the most density I find(sure there may be afew area's in a3 that are denser) but a4 easily has the worst monsters. Terror Demon anyone? + Armadon & Oppressors... All the little legless dudes... Could be more oppressors and legless dudes, but Armadons are already dense enough. And the more monsters with them the more likely you die during their stun move.
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I think it's quite clearly both about farming efficiency and the desire to maintain certain powerful statuses like Archon, WOTB or Tempest Rush.

And increasing mob density is only one option. 2 other suggestions:

- increase run speed to cover more ground (this has been mentioned a lot of times).

- redesign the areas - I like the design of VOTA because the areas are all connected to one another so you won't get into a dead end (like the Arreat areas).
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Prepare for epic complaining if Act 2 wasps come in huge swarms, along with the invisibles and burrowers. Makes no difference to me one way or another.
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Honestly I've always felt that mob density has felt very sparse in D3. It seems to me that in most areas its kill three or four mobs and then move on to the next pack of three or four mobs. I like plowing through big packs, its fun. I wish there were more. I think its one thing that's added to the dullness I find myself experiencing lately in the game.
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Allowing NV stacks through acts is a stop-gap. It doesn't address the disparity between A3 and A4, and A4's unpopularity.

A long term solution is necessary.

Humble Suggestion:
In addition to adjusting mob density, allow NV stacks to build (slowly, kinda like a power meter) via trash mobs. Of course you tune it to whatever threshold suits your design vision best. At least it helps with the tunnel-vision-for-elites mentality. (somewhat).
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The problem with A1/2/4 is not just monster density (after all, Desolate Sands can have pretty high monster density), it's also monster types and level design.

The highly linear A3 levels are much easier to clear than the nonlinear A1/2 maps. The circular layout of Cathedral levels makes them particularly bad.

A3 has relatively few "annoying" or "difficult" monsters - Phasebeasts can be a pain for ranged and Succubi can be a pain for melee, but if you stick to the Ramparts and Keep you see neither.

On the other hand, A1/2/4 have a lot more troublesome monsters:
A1:
Ghosts (annoying going into walls and becoming unattackable)
Scavengers (annoying burrow and deadly movespeed)
Skeletal Summoners (summoning large numbers of non-loot/exp skeletons)
Wood Wraiths (highly damaging poison seeds that delay looting)
Charge Beasts (charge attack that one-shots most ranged classes)

A2:
Bees (long ranged, high damage, retreats)
Landsharks (unattackable most of the time)
Snakes (unattackable most of the time)
Lacuni (unattackable while leaping, and highly damaging)
Magewraiths (highly damaging and damage resistant while spinning)
Plague Mummies (highly damaging poison clouds that delay looting)
Spiders (webs slow you a TON)

A4:
Every single monster type in A4 is extremely lethal.
==================

IMO, Inferno difficulty should have more randomization of monster spawns like the Act 5 Guest Monsters in diablo 2. Let the Keep have unmatched monster density, but give it a chance to spawn Ghosts, Melee Snakes, Morlu Incinerators, Terror Demons, Phasebeasts and Succubi.
Edited by Palliation#1950 on 1/25/2013 7:43 AM PST
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I vote for a few things.

1. Increase the length of Act 4. I will never farm Act 4. Monster density is great there, but the act is very short and has 5 elites, I clear it in no time and the boss takes a while to kill with poor rewards.

2. Increase monster density in Act 1 in particular, or at least add some "stopper mobs" that slow me down so that the monsters that climb up the walls have a chance to get to me.

3. Monster Density in Act 2 is pretty good, maybe a few more monsters in each mob, but otherwise it seems pretty decent.

4. Bigger dungeons. The fact of the matter is that side dungeons, like the Frozen Caverns are only 2 levels deep and all follow the same scheme of walk half way around a circular hallway to the next level, walk to the end of that hallway, grab your chest and teleport back. If you would just make those dungeons 5 levels deep and significantly more complex and had a miniboss at the end of them that dropped something special, insert it into the quest line perhaps as a potential side quest (like Radament or Anya)
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ACT 3 is actually my least favorite of all the acts. It saddens me that it is currently, and has been for a while, the only act that I play. This is of course due to farming efficiency.

I much prefer act 1 and 2 to act 3, and would rather farm those areas... if I had the same density of monsters, and the equal ability to find great loot.

EDIT: I would like to see monster density to be used more thematically within the acts... here is an example of what I would consider an exciting experience. Let's take Lord of the Rings, Mines of Moria or... the goblin town inside the mountains in The Hobbit. These places are seemingly.... empty... areas of the world. However, when something stirs within the deep - the monsters just POUR out of every hole, every crevice. This creates a sense of panic, because the monsters just don't stop. I have never experienced something like this in diablo 3, and that deeply saddens me - because it is the perfect environment for such an experience.

I recall seeing the very first gameplay preview of d3 of the barbarian. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byy723gTSQQ) At around 1 minute, the monsters just don't seem to stop coming... and THIS. THIS. Is what I want to experience. Why have I never had this experience in diablo 3?


Act 3 is not my favourite too, the places are sometimes too dark or chaotic, like the bridge, and to some extent arreat crater, you may overlook some chests or even legs.
the blood clan occultists are also very annoying, one time an elite occultists were next to another elite pack, than of coz they were all mixed up, they had so many affixes and still have the freaking shield on, that's so hard to fight

i like act 2 the most except for the fire-spitting constructs and the flying mosquitoes, with affixes combination like molten, shielding, jailers, fast, they can be extremely deadly and tough to kill
the side quests in act 2 is also more fun, and vault of the assassins is my favourite place in D3, so many elite packs, and you can just go in circle to clear the entire map

act 1 is also very good, feel like D2 the most among all acts, the places are nice, but the density problem is really a big issue there, with the exception of festering wood

plz make density even on act 1/2 as act 3

I vote for a few things.

1. Increase the length of Act 4. I will never farm Act 4. Monster density is great there, but the act is very short and has 5 elites, I clear it in no time and the boss takes a while to kill with poor rewards.

4. Bigger dungeons. The fact of the matter is that side dungeons, like the Frozen Caverns are only 2 levels deep and all follow the same scheme of walk half way around a circular hallway to the next level, walk to the end of that hallway, grab your chest and teleport back. If you would just make those dungeons 5 levels deep and significantly more complex and had a miniboss at the end of them that dropped something special, insert it into the quest line perhaps as a potential side quest (like Radament or Anya)


i like these 2 ideas, but i think 5 lvls are too many, maybe 3, 4 at most, it is more important that the dungeons are completely random, so there won't be a same dungeon ever, than having many lvls
Edited by FrancisLi#3733 on 1/25/2013 8:01 AM PST
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I vote for more mobs in all acts except 3. I would love to fight massive hordes of hungry dead in act 1, or more spiders, etc. The spider cave in act 1 is so barren. It should be writhing with 8 legged monstrosities.
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01/25/2013 08:51 AMPosted by Zaxxon23
I doubt Blizzard set out to make this game exceedingly boring like that, but that's the final result whether they like it or not.


I think they just focused on the art too much and sacrificed the randomly-generated aspect. Sure the sewers and caves look cool but, if you beef up monster density you end up with a huge crowd that bunches up in the narrows and just becomes fodder.

Basically the only areas with replay value become the wide open areas with random dungeons and events in them - festering, fields, highlands, oasis, sands, battlefields, slaughter - and the keep.
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Kinda funny, I feel the game is really empty. Honestly id like too double or even triple
the amount of critters wondering around, im here to kill stuff, Thats why i enjoyed d2
and thought id see some major carnage, so this kind of change would be epic.. imagine
inferno mp 10 with 10x more critters wondering around..
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many ranged people arent going to farm act 2 until you do something to the serpents invisibility range
the fact that my Demon Hunter cant shoot them until they are in melee range and if i try to kite them they invisible again


Come on that's is something needed, forcing you to play as a true heros ! Legolas doesn't fear close combat, so you should not !


I agree. People are losing sight of the fact that changes to the game MUST be made to actually make the game more FUN, not easier to farm. Farming does not equal FUN in my book.
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How about more things to do than
01/23/2013 02:23 AMPosted by Miguelitro
more monster mean more gold, experience, gems, and a better chance to get a legendary (though it will suck anyway...).
that's quite boring to me now
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