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Tbh and with all due respect I think the company is afraid to give us high monster density because that would be extremely "FUN".
Fyi, I dont want high density monster to farm exp or loot, but because I want the feeling of being immersed in a demon infested world. For god's sake this is Diablo
I think there are multiple reasons behind the desire for scaling monster density for the players who are asking for it. The first one that comes to mind is not the self-serving need to squeak out insane farming efficiency (there are some who seem to definitely want this), but the desire to feel that they are not losing efficiency when farming anything other than Act III. We definitely want people to farm multiple Acts, so we are discussing options to achieve that goal.
Two words that sum up my opinion.....EPIC BATTLES! I want to be in the middle of 2 or 3 packs of elite's with new waves of monsters pouring into the battle. I remember from Diablo 2 when someone would stir up all the cows in the cow level and all the cows would be waiting by the town portal, daring someone to enter. When I entered the portal it was complete madness!. I remember those epic battles and miss them dearly!
Edited by DrEvil#1428 on 1/24/2013 12:17 PM PST
I think there are multiple reasons behind the desire for scaling monster density for the players who are asking for it. The first one that comes to mind is not the self-serving need to squeak out insane farming efficiency (there are some who seem to definitely want this), but the desire to feel that they are not losing efficiency when farming anything other than Act III.
Why are there linked youtube videos on the diablo front page sanctioned by Blizzard promoting act 3 farming if that's the case
cmon, i think they can figure out how to make it even in all acts ....
Each act currently has an identity of sorts. Act 1 is a training grounds, Act 2 is a gear check, Act 3 is a farming zone, and Act 4 is an accomplishment.
It's good for each act to have its own identity, but all acts should be farming zones. Which means Act 3 needs a new identity, and the other acts need their farming buffed:
ACT 3: Epic Zone
Strangely enough, Act 3 has always been my favorite act, despite the hundreds of times I have run it. The first time I played through Act 3 was one of my top video game experiences ever. It really felt like a war zone with battle going on in every direction and tons of monsters. The huge Siegebreaker Assault Beast from the 2008 video was in the background trampling soldiers. Massive worms jumped up and spewed demons on top of me. Catapults, trebuchets and ballistas: all good things. Then arreat and the tower: it was nice to finally get some nudity (albeit barely noticeable) in a Diablo game, and Azmodan had creepy music that stuck in my head the next week. After beating the game in Normal, I couldn’t wait to return to Act 3 in Nightmare and Hell.
Once the other acts are eventually balanced for farming--whether through monster density or some other means--I think that time will eventually heal the hate/boredom that many players have for Act 3, and its identity will return as the Epic Zone: the climax of the game, the act that you do on the edge of your seat with your finger on shift at all times.
If anything, I think Act 3 needs more monster density and fewer interruptions to its epicness. For example, the first catapult feels like it takes FOREVER to raise: more monsters and a shorter timer are needed there. The ice cave and core of arreat need more monsters too (despite being good areas for elite packs). The quest where the shadow beasts attack Leah in the basement needs to last 10-20x longer. The super long ramps around Cydea/Azmodan need to be overflowing with succubi like a harem.
Fewer dead-ends would be helpful too, like the ones in Arreat 1. Circular maps (Keep 2, Tower 1) and linear maps (Rakkis, Skycrown) with no backtracking fit the theme of this act much better. Other interruptions like non-breakable doors in Keep 1 need to go as well.
And speaking of climaxes, Cydea should be lustier. I know she needs to please Azmodan (which has its anatomical challenges) but she should be enticing to nephalem as well. But I digress.
ACT 1: Training Grounds
Whether you are in Normal, Nightmare, Hell or Inferno, this act is about getting used to the current difficulty level. Monsters move relatively slow and use predictable attacks. This helps the player adjust to an additional affix on elite/champion packs each time they advance a difficulty level.
To keep with the training grounds theme but improve farming efficiency, I would suggest adding a MASSIVE amount of chests to Act 1. Maybe even a new class of chest that only exists in this act. All chests should give lots of xp too. Some chests could even become demonic machines that attack you when you try to open them (think mimic boxes from Secret of Mana). Overall, it will be more of a laid back act that is good for newbies gearing up, but just as profitable xp/loot wise as Act 3, so a nice detour for pros to get a sip of coffee/scotch in after 30 minutes of intense Act 3.
ACT 2: Gear Check
The Butcher’s enrage effect helps a player start thinking about their gear, because the first two monsters you meet in Act 2 are completely unlike anything you saw in Act 1: monkeys and wasps with projectiles that hit like trucks (with harmless looking graphics I might add). You also have several monsters that basically have an elite affix built in: serpents that go invisible (teleport), casters that create fire pools on the ground (desecrator), and lizards that burrow (shielding) so when you get an elite pack of these, it often creates unavoidable damage and thus, checks your gear. All of this culminates with Belial, the ultimate gear check. Originally it was about having enough DPS for phase 2 and having a good internet connection for phase 3, and then in 1.03 became about enough DPS for phase 3 combined with some luck during the bombs. This all prepared us for Act 3 and Whimseyshire: the zones we really wanted to be in (for ilvl 63 gear drops) but whose monsters have much more hit points and damage.
To keep with the gear check theme but improve farming efficiency, let’s add/improve some parts of the act to make gear checks fun:
-Add many more treasure goblins, even several at a time so you have to chase them into a corner and AOE them down.
-Add more shrines everywhere, and have a really hard event that gives you one of each shrine at the start.
-Add a “target dummy” event with a DPS meter and greater rewards for more damage done.
-Balance that with a separate tanking event continues to throw damage at you until you have 1 hp (without killing you, like the dueling system) and rewards you depending on how long you lived.
-Have events that give you a temporary godly weapon or armor piece at the start that you need to equip to beat the event.
-Fix the crumbling vault to be clearable with good gear, like adding to the timer when you kill an elite pack.
ACT 4: Accomplishment
This has always been the act that you do once (for the achievement / infernal machine plans / a sense of pride / etc) and never come back, largely because of NV problems, but also because of its superpowered monsters. Mallet Lords 1-shot many players (and pets with force armor I might add), Fallen Angels charge from off screen, demons debuff your healing; not to mention Rakanoth’s teleport, Izual’s freeze, big D’s prison, and shadow clones. All of this encourages slower, more technical metagame, where outsmarting enemies is just as important as overpowering them.
Keep with the accomplishment theme but improve farming efficiency: make these fights even more technical and add massive xp/loot rewards (more than double) so there is a sense of satisfaction with each kill.
Ultimately, Diablo should drop the most loot and coolest loot in the game. People have made several great suggestions in the forums. Higher tier gems. Low level legendaries like Leorics and Buriza. Blue items with super powerful affixes like Godly Plates of the Whale. Have Grizmart/Wirt type vendors afterward selling 7 or 8-affix rares, or who can re-roll the skill mod on your SOJ/Maras.
For examples of technicality, I would bring back Blood Knights from D1 (awesome graphics and sounds) have them be immune to CC, and have them do extra damage when they surround you, so you need to studder-step against a wall or funnel them into a choke point to survive.
Make encounters scary for geared players too, so give monsters percentage based attacks like crushing blow to even the odds. Add puzzles, labyrinths and super-dark areas. Have an event where you can mind control a massive demon and use its special skills.
In the end, increased monster density definitely needs to be improved, but for most players that will just be a band-aid. For a longer-term fix, these acts have some unique identity that the developers can leverage for a refreshingly varied gaming experience.
Edited by Dikembe#1368 on 1/24/2013 1:28 PM PST
The same can be said about monster power. the point is to make it not so much a gap so there's flexible options.
If you say act 3 is 150% more efficient for farming than A2 than I'll never see A2. If you say A3 is 5% more efficient for farming than A2 than I'll be more likely to hit up a2 to see if I can get different loot options and just to change things up.
Just like doing MP0 runs is 500% more effective than Mp5, but after patch only 5% (purely random numbers that don't mean anything just to prove a big gap to smaller gap).
exactly, some ppl want to kill lots of monsters everywhere, others prefer few tough monsters.
Really, the only downside I can see to such a feature would be if hugely dense amounts of monsters screws with peoples' graphics cards...
But if their machines can handle it, why not? Honestly, I'd rather have some controllable setting to raise monster density than some tacked on event or endless dungeon.
An endless dungeon idea is just ONE place, ONE event, ONE location "randomly" mixed up, etc. And it'd probably require some extra graphics or backgrounds or whatever.
Raising monster density means people can choose whatever Act they want to farm on, whatever locale they LIKE, as opposed to "just go to the endless dungeon" or "Alkaizer Run on a bun."
As an added bonus, over the whole "endless dungeon" thing...I like the fact that Monster Power 10 is considered the hardest, and that MP10 is kind of a goal for people working their way up. If Monster Density or "Monster Horde", or whatever it's called, has a similar scaling in levels from, say, 1-10, it's even easier to gauge just how much you can handle.
For instance, a character might be able to handle MP1 MH5, but not MP3 MH2. And so on.
I'm actually really hoping this gets put in now. These kinds of personal player controls alone would make this game's experience more customizable than D2.
Sorry but in my opinion solution is simple. You cant just double density all over the all acts, but You can do that in some parts. For example, You dont "farm" in all places in A3. That should be the same in A1 and A2. A2 is almost same efficient as A3. Just need one or two places with more density. A1 could have two more places where U dont have to cross during the Lore. For example You can double monsters in some additional cripts. One more thing. We dont need more density, we need better drop from monsters. If there would be same, efficient drop like in Keep Depths 1,2,3 in A3 (almost all skeletons drop something) then it would be fine. I trust Blizz, for sure they will figure out something^^
Lets further the ideas. Why not give us farm mode, a infinite levels dungeon which form randomly from all the in-game dungeons (the the ruins in act2, the keep in act3, etc). Doing a repeating routine again and again is boring; remake game again and again to just do a few zones in act3 is stupid.
Infinite Dungeon is simply a run away solution in which the problem itself isn't fixed.
I would like to see the normal game have increased monster density in the acts that are lacking, have more interesting AI scripting (such as patrolling mobs), have more varied monster randomization in which one part of act 1 could have scarce enemies one playthrough, multiple bunches of enemies, or a massive mob of enemies with small patrols around (wouldn't happen imo).
Otherwise Inferno should include chances of special cases in which monsters from all acts can be seen in all acts like Diablo 2. Or just allow this with elites, and have this as an option in the gameplay menu in which you choose to have this varied gameplay.
Also I think Inferno should have chances depending on monster power of mini bosses showing up around the game (totally random) in which the unique mini boss would have like 6-7 affixes and a small army of enemies that merely have increased health.
Admittedly I haven't read all 9 pages so not sure if anyone else pointed this out but...
What exactly is the matter with the "self-serving" desire to maximize farming efficiency.
I personally enjoy the game alot more when I'm killing massive crowds of mobs.
I'd love a wave event with ever increasing numbers of mobs. I personally find much more satisfcation from being death incarnate to a bunch of mobs than in trying to eek out a victory from some elite pack that is almost more than I can handle. This is a matter of personal preference yes. But, there are lots of players like that and it is very consistent with the tradition of Diablo.
The most boring time in the game is when I am running from one area of mobs to another area of mobs.
So, is it self-serving? Yes maybe so. Is that bad, absolutely not. As your customer and fan I am telling you want I want to enjoy the game and that shouldnt' be seen as negative.
Monster Density is going to be at it's max or up to what their computers can handle, because it's a little bit stupid, knowing the fact that everyone farms act III because of the higher density. If there could be an option that could also call for build diversity is, the less mobs, the more XP and Legendary chance you get from each one, and the most mobs, the lesser XP and Legendary Drop chance you get from each one, because, let's be honest: A WW barb owns at mob density, but a Single Opponent build one that just wants to have fun with his game at his own way (RIGHT?!), suffers because there are a ton of monsters coming his way.
tl;dr: (though I don't think you're lazy enough) The higher the MD is set, the less XP and Leg Drop Chance you get from each one.
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