Diablo® III

I'm now calculation confused with marquis Gem

After doing all different calculations I'm now finding myself 2nd-guessing my calculations and trying to figure out if my calculations are right or if what is being shown through the image captures from PTR is right.

My Weapon Information:
Calamity
DPS - 1174.6
DMG - 445-878
APS - 1.78
+MIN - 263
+MAX - 302
+DMG - 43%

I guess my question is how is the MARQUIS DMG added to the weapon.

Seeing some of the images it seems like it is perhaps doing the following:

MinDamge = (MinBase + MinDmgAffix + MarquisDmg) * DamagePercent (in my case it would be multiplied by 1.43)

This would give my weapon:

MinDamge = (48 + 263 + 150) * 1.43 = 659.23

MaxDamage = (MaxBase + MaxDmgAffix +MarquisDmg) * DamagePercent (in my case it would be multiplied by 1.43)

Since my adjusted Min Damage (Min Base Damage = 461) before multiplying it by the DamagePercent) > Normal Max Base of 275. The way it is currently is the MaxBase gets reset to Adjusted Min Damage +1.

So my MaxBase = 462

Using the above Formula: (462 + 302 + 150) * 1.43 = 1307.02

This now would give me a Damage Range of 659.23 - 1307.02 (rounded is 659-1307)

DPS = ((MinDamage + MaxDamage)/2)*WeaponAPS
DPS = ((659 + 1307) / 2) * 1.78 = 1749 dps.

This calculation seems to fall in line with the screen-shots I'm seeing. Where it is taking

(MinBase + MinDamageAffix +MinGemStr)

However it also seems many other calculating websites out there are doing it differently. Almost like they are calculating the ADJUSTED MIN damage. Then calculating the ADJUSTED MAX damage (as if there was no ruby gem in use) and then at the end just adding +150 to the adjusted min and +150 to the adjusted max (this is after the multiplication of the +dmg% modifier)

So which is it.... Gem DMG adds before the multiplication of the %dmg modifier or after the damage% modifier?
Edited by BubbaGump#1297 on 1/23/2013 11:27 AM PST
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I'm like really confused now as well :(

Feel free to help me out though if you think you understand how my Manticore issues work:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7708262628
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well... this is now why I'm confused and starting to 2nd-guess myself.

Many websites seem to be calculating the Min-Max damage of the weapon fully (adding the +dmg modifiers) and then multiplying it by the damage%. Once they come up with the new min and max numbers they then add +150 to each (marquis gem dmg number) and finally multiplying it by the weapon's APS.

but the in-game shots with the huge DPS number increases show the websites are not calculating it the same way.

Manticore is a little different of a weapon because it has the poison modifier on it which is tacked onto the end so the modifiers of %dmg like yours has of 50% and the STR Gem would be calculated on the "black damage" itself and those weapons non-black most likely won't see as much "bang for the buck" as black weapons.

But if I were to calculate your weapon under some website calculations your dps replacing a radiant star emerald with a marquis ruby would give you +9,906.35 dps increase and change your bow's dps from 1315.57 to 1647.72.

The website I'm lookinig at seems to support the formula I'm seeing from PTR Graphics and I believe your weapon would increase from 1315.57dps to the 1647.72dps. Since the manti's "extra damage" modifier is poison based it doesn't really fall as much into the same category as calamity as the calamity damage modifiers are black-weapon based and not elemental.
Edited by BubbaGump#1297 on 1/23/2013 12:41 PM PST
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You're right. I tried D3up.com. When I simulate two marquis rubies instead of my emeralds, I get -5,691.25 DPS. If I then remove the sockets and add +300 min and +300 max to jewelry, I get the same result, -5,691.25 DPS. The site does not seem to be calculating it correctly according to what people are showing in-game. It should be applied before the enhanced damage modifier and only affect the DPS of the weapon it's in.
Edited by Fatum#1415 on 1/23/2013 12:47 PM PST
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The website I'm lookinig at seems to support the formula I'm seeing from PTR Graphics and I believe your weapon would increase from 1315.57dps to the 1647.72dps. Since the manti's "extra damage" modifier is poison based it doesn't really fall as much into the same category as calamity as the calamity damage modifiers are black-weapon based and not elemental.


I was originally assuming it'd be:

1315.6 -> 1647.7 -> 2056.1

However, This also seems to assume that the min > max (assuming the manti would even consider poison ranges as min and max) isn't having any effect, since the min wouldn't be > max on this xbow like it is on the other xbow i tested on the PTR. Then it gets more confusing that the 2nd gems had a different effect from the first gem (which happens to be what I expected the first gem to do).

Right now plugging in the xbow I had into a spreadsheet seems to be giving me much better DPS (and space to work on improving DPS further) on 2 ruby then on 1/1 or 2 emeralds. The thing I'm probably most confused about at this point is why the 2nd gem give so much more of a boost then the first gem.
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I dont have any specific calculations, but I have made the marquis ruby's and they made my damage go up with my manticore. I was at ~177K dmg with archery, and with the two ruby's I was at ~194K dmg. I am not stacking any sort of attack speed except for the helm and the DML. I would be interested in seeing what the increase would be with closer to a 2.0 attack speed with a manticore.

I know my gear isnt anywhere near top of the line, but the gems made it go up.
Edited by Wildling#1941 on 1/23/2013 1:03 PM PST
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You're right. I tried D3up.com. When I simulate two marquis rubies instead of my emeralds, I get -5,691.25 DPS. If I then remove the sockets and add +300 min and +300 max to jewelry, I get the same result, -5,691.25 DPS. The site does not seem to be calculating it correctly according to what people are showing in-game. It should be applied before the enhanced damage modifier and only affect the DPS of the weapon it's in.


I simulated the proper calculation by removing the sockets and adjusting the min/max damage on the weapons. Revenge DPS went from 1033.2 to 1393.2. Spite DPS went from 1031.1 to 1359.2. Overall change was -15,149.7 DPS. The rubies don't help me, because much of my crit damage comes from my bow sockets. Whether rubies are helpful really depends on current gear.
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@fatum it isn't that simple. You are adding the min/max damage at the end as if it was elemental damage. That is NOT correct. You only now are recalculating the DPS based on a new damage range * Weapon APS.

Under several website calculations this would be somewhat "correct" in what you are looking at.

However I'm also looking at how PTR is showing the damage.

You would have much higher DPS based on the actual PTR calculations.

I've been looking at this trying to get my head wrapped around it and I think the websites are not calculating things the same way as the actual PTR Game is calculating it.

As a for instance:

My Calamity with a MARQUIS Gem in it based on website calculations I've done show my weapon DPS would increase from : 1174.6 to 1555.55 (Increase of 7,089 overall DPS based on my build)

However when I calculate it based on what I'm seeing from PTR Screen-shots my weapon DPS would go from 1174.6 to 1749.96 (increase of 39,042 overall dps based on my build)

So this is what is now getting very confusing to me.

I think in particular d3rawr.com is not recalculating the MaxBase Damage correctly to keep in sync with what PTR is showing. This is why there is this big difference between what I'm seeing in d3rawr website for a marquis gem compared to PTR itself.

the Min Damage is calculating correctly on that website but not the max. I think d3rawr is taking the (MinBase + MinDamageAffix) and then adjustinig the MaxBase based on that comparison where to keep things in sync they should be comparing MaxBase to (MinBase + MinDamageAffix + GemMinValue) and adjustinig from that point. This would make things all calculate correctly.
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Ok, then count me in on the calculation confused. Here's my current Revenge:

1033.2 DPS
384-908 Damage
1.60 Attacks per Second
+208 Minimum Damage
+330 Maximum Damage
+50% Damage

Base Min-Max on an Exorcist is 48-275.

So damage range of my Revenge is (48+208)*1.5 - (275+330)*1.5 = 384-907.5
DPS is (384+907.5)/2*1.6 = 1033.2 (which matches what is shown on character sheet)

With Marquis rubies:

Damage range is (48+208+150)*1.5 - (275+330+150)*1.5 = 609-1132.5
DPS is (609+1132.5)/2*1.6 = 1393.2

This matches what I simulated on D3up.com. Where did I go wrong?
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According to my calculations your bow = DPS 1551 and not your 1393 calculation. I will try and explain (please bear in mind I'm calculating based on how PTR is showing increase of damage)

MinBase = 48
MaxBase = 275

MinBaseAdjusted = (MinBase + MinDamageAffix + MinRubyDamage)
MinBaseAdjusted = 48 + 275 + 150 = 406
MinBaseTotal = MinBaseAdjusted * WeaponDamage%
MinBaseTotal = 406 * 1.5 = 609

So 609 is your MINIMUM damage
MaxDamage Base = 275. However Your Min Base of 406 is > standard Base of 275 This was about all the hoopla about black weapons being nerfed based on calculations...etc).

So what the system does is if the MinBaseTotal > MaxBase it takes MinBaseTotal + 1 and reassigns that to the new MaxBase

MaxBase = 407
MaxBaseAdjusted = MaxBase + MaxDamageAffix + MaxRuby Damage
MaxBaseAdjusted = 407 + 330 + 150 = 887
MaxBaseTotal = MaxBaseAdjusted * WeaponDamage%
MaxBaseTotal = 887 * 1.5 = 1330.5

Now you have a weapon range of 609-1330.5.

To get your actual weapon DPS you have to use the formula:

DPS = ((MinBaseTotal + MaxBaseTotal) / 2) * WeaponAPS
DPS = ((609 + 1330) / 2) * 1.6 = 1551.6

I'm not saying I'm right and d3up is wrong. I'm only showing how it appears PTR is calculating the DPS when adding Marquis Gems.

when the other sites are calculating the new MAX DAMAGE BASE they appear not to be comparing the 275 to (MinBase + MinDamageAffix + MinGemValue) and then adjusting. They appear to be comparing 275 to (MinBase + MinDamageAffix) only

so this is why there are funky calculations with funky results going on.
Edited by BubbaGump#1297 on 1/23/2013 2:39 PM PST
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You beat me to it. I realized later I didn't take into account the damage calculation bug. But it still turns out I'm better off with emeralds at least until I get more crit damage on other sources. Here are my calculations:

Danetta's Revenge
1033.2 DPS
384-908 Damage
1.60 Attacks per Second
+208 Minimum Damage
+330 Maximum Damage
+50% Damage

Base Min-Max on an Exorcist is 48-275.

So damage range of my Revenge is (48+208)*1.5 - (275+330)*1.5 = 384-907.5
DPS is (384+907.5)/2*1.6 = 1033.2 (which matches what is shown on character sheet)

With Marquis rubies:

New min damage before enhanced damage adjustment is (48+208+150)=406
406 > 275, new base max becomes 406 + 1 = 407

New damage range is (48+208+150)*1.5 - (407+330+150)*1.5 = 609-1330.5
DPS is (609+1330.5)/2*1.6 = 1551.6

Danetta's Spite
1031.3 DPS
440-850 Damage
1.60 Attacks per Second
+249 Minimum Damage
+276 Maximum Damage
+48% Damage

Min damage on Spite before enhanced damage adjust is (48+249) = 297
297 > 275, so base max becomes 297 + 1 = 298

So damage range of my Spite is (48+249)*1.48 - (298+276)*1.48 = 439.56-849.52
DPS is (439.56+849.52)/2*1.6 = 1031.264

With Marquis rubies:

New min damage before enhanced damage adjustment is (48+249+150)=447
447 > 275, so base max becomes 447 + 1 = 448

New damage range of my Spite is (48+249+150)*1.48 - (448+276+150)*1.48 = 661.56-1293.52
DPS is (661.56+1293.52)/2*1.6 = 1564.064

Two Marquis emeralds: +8,682.24 DPS
Marquis Ruby in Revenge, Marquis Emerald in Spite: +7,983.47 DPS
Two Marquis rubies: -2,520.26 DPS
Marquis Emerald in Revenge, Marquis Ruby in Spite: +8,627.29 DPS
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Quick update. It does appear D3up.com has made changes to the simulation and changing to a ruby gem using the simulation is now showing the right DPS Changes.
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I've confirmed this as well. D3up is now reporting the same results that I calculated for my Danetta's:

Two Marquis emeralds: +8,682.24 DPS
Marquis Ruby in Revenge, Marquis Emerald in Spite: +7,983.47 DPS
Two Marquis rubies: -2,520.26 DPS
Marquis Emerald in Revenge, Marquis Ruby in Spite: +8,627.29 DPS
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Yep Yep... thanks for verifying that Fatum. :)
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now all I need is a 2soc Calamity and I'll be happy :)
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^^^ This would be amazing
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