Diablo® III

TL2 "more rewarding" drops: the lie

Sometimes you can read in critic reviews, internet forum etc, that TL2 is better then D3 because of his "better rewarding drop rates".

Well, this is a lie, a big lie.
I have unpacked TL2 files and i have discovered some interesting value for drop rates. I will give you few intro information to better understand the maths part.

-In TL2 legendaries are something like "a very good" legendary in D3.
-I actually have an embermage level 63 with 19 hours of gameplay.

Now listen the fun part. The chance to find a legendaries is 1/2500 from champions mob.
I have killed 308 of them after 19 hours of gameplay.
That means you need around 160 hours of gameplay to find 1 legendaries.
But since there are 60 legendaries and their item level spread from 60 to 100 and there are 4 classes with very different stats and needs, you have a ridicolous low chance to find exactly what you want when you need.
So this means "rewarding" as they say?
Well there are also boss drops and special chest, but the chance doesn't put the numbers so high.
Unique chance rates are bit better, indeed i have found a lot of them, even if only 1 has been equipped by my character.

The true is that TL2 is exactly the same as D3. When you hit level 100 you have to grind like hell in order to find the uber equip you want.
Itemization is just better, with way more affixes diversity.

But drops. Drops are just the same !@#$.
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So, the item drop rates are similar but the items themselves are better. So the drop rate of decent items is better. Where is the lie again?

Oh, you're talking about the best of the best gear which is very rare and requires tons of farming to obtain. So what? The better and more rewarding drop rates would be referring to the other 99.9% of the items in the game. Since, you know, itemization isn't garbage in TL2 and finding good gear actually happens regularly.

So yes, drop rates are better and more rewarding in TL2. Taking a fraction of a percent of the items that can drop and pointing out how much grinding it requires to obtain said items doesn't negate the better and more rewarding drop rates of the other 99.9% of the items. That is what people refer to with better and more rewarding drops.
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I try to make new example: in TL2 there is 1 legendary 1hand axe level 100.
If i kill 2500 champions i have theoretically a chance that 1 legendaries drops. But there are 1/60 chance to find exactly that axe.
1/60 of 1/2500 to find what i want. Thousand of hours.

Again, is it rewarding?
Edited by ILGiudice#2597 on 1/19/2013 4:51 PM PST
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01/19/2013 04:50 PMPosted by ILGiudice
Again, is it rewarding?


01/19/2013 04:37 PMPosted by Ringo
Taking a fraction of a percent of the items that can drop and pointing out how much grinding it requires to obtain said items doesn't negate the better and more rewarding drop rates of the other 99.9% of the items
Edited by Ringo#1617 on 1/19/2013 4:55 PM PST
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I was not aware legendary loot was the only loot that mattered.In terms off finding great loot in Torchlight 2 vs great loot in Diablo 3 it's a landslide victory to Torchlight 2.It also had gambling where the odds of finding a great item were pretty high.Titan Quest Immortal Throne also does a far better job in rewarding the player for playing,it's also got a far better and more robust class system.
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Legendary WEAPONS are hard to find in torchlight 2. There is no legendary armor etc. There are plenty of uniques and set items. The drops are far more rewarding considering you can transmute stuff you dont want to use. 4 uniques= 1 new unique, 2 set items=1 new set item etc. D3's loot and loot system has nothing on TL2's.

edit: Look for yourself at the range of gear in TL2. http://torchlight2armory.com/
Edited by Suedomsa#1857 on 1/19/2013 6:53 PM PST
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Itemization....

POE>TL2>Any other ARPG ever made besides D3>D3

Thats the way I see it
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01/19/2013 04:05 PMPosted by ILGiudice
Sometimes you can read in critic reviews, internet forum etc, that TL2 is better then D3 because of his "better rewarding drop rates".


01/19/2013 04:05 PMPosted by ILGiudice
Itemization is just better, with way more affixes diversity.


Drop rates is one thing.

TL2 has more items to look for and a better ladder when it comes to equipping upgrades.

The absolute BEST drop rates are really rare yes, but TL2 has more stages and tiers in itemization and, as you said far more diversity when it comes to affixes.

Now if only TL2 looked like D3 and had Diablo's story...
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During levelling a generic upgrade can be found exactly like in Diablo 3. But the "rewards" feeling ends in exactly the same way as in Diablo 3.
Getting all uniques in TL2 requires less time then clear inferno, and after that you haven't reasons to play.
In terms of longevity TL2 is ridicolous compared to Diablo 3.

People play Inferno for weeks and then TL2 for 2 days and say that it's more rewarding. Maybe playing in Inferno clear their memories and they forgot how much time was spent in levelling and upgrading gear.
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01/20/2013 04:46 PMPosted by ILGiudice
During levelling a generic upgrade can be found exactly like in Diablo 3. But the "rewards" feeling ends in exactly the same way as in Diablo 3.


LOL! No.

While leveling in D3, I was constantly using gear that was 5, 10, 15 or more levels behind me simply because nothing worth a damn dropped nor was there any way to obtain gear other than buying stuff from other players (vendor gear is crap for most of the game after the first few levels) or getting lucky with crafting (lol) and that's IF you could craft an item for the slot you needed..

While leveling in TL2 I found solid gear and kept my stuff fairly up to date through drops and occasional gambling. Great item already but want to add a little more to it? Enchanters all over that can give random buffs to gear for a price. Random buff sucked? No problem, do it again for another chance at a good buff.

What about all those useless sets and gems I found and don't want to wear? No big, can transmute that gear into another piece of gear and maybe the new piece will be better for you. Gems can be transmuted as well or just sold because you find plenty and they're locked to certain levels of gear.

Oh yeah, lets not forget gear has 2 requirements. A level one and a stat one. Be level 40 to use this awesome weapon OR have XX amount of a certain stat. Lets you use really strong gear much earlier but still makes it available for later if you aren't focusing on a certain stat.

01/20/2013 04:46 PMPosted by ILGiudice
Getting all uniques in TL2 requires less time then clear inferno, and after that you haven't reasons to play.


Fun factor. Seems to be something people don't care about these days, but I hold that in high regards. It's probably the reason I still play games from the 80s and 90s. I may have beaten them time and time again, but they're still fun to play.

You aren't convincing anyone of that junk in the OP so give it up.
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Yea in the end I would say Torchlight 2 has more options when it comes to the itemization.

Like I said before, both TL2 and D3 both have great aspects to show. If Diablo 3 had parts of TL2 in it I would be far more ecstatic over the game. Better itemization, far more enemies to kill, more ambushes/traps, good flowing combat, great look graphically, and complex boss fights with plenty of added minions flowing into the fight.
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deleted
Edited by Icon0clast#1542 on 1/21/2013 7:43 AM PST
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TL2 legendary drops are ALWAYS the best of the best for the requirements.

D3 legendary drops are 99% just another brimstone.

Getting a TL2 legendary, you will want to start a new character to use it.

Getting a D3 legendary thats actually not crap, you will drop it into AH.

So "more rewarding" is actually not a lie.
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I spent a decent amount of time playing D3. close to 700 hours, or so. I have never ever ever found a legendary item i can use. Yes, granted, i found a fair share of decent items, but nothing useful for my current toon.

I had spent, according to steam record, about 80 hours playing TL2. I have made 4 different characters (2 of them are outlanders, same class but with completely different play styles) with my highest level being around 78 Outlander that focuses on poison aoe attacks and summons a big hulking shadow giant tank think that jumps around, much fun, but i digress.

As far as loot goes, I have never found a red (legendary) item yet. I have found countless (serious, countless !) uniques (seriously, can be compared to D3's "legendaries" in their power output) that my character could equip. Also, you can "re-roll" a unique item into a new one (4 old ones to 1 new one). So you get a LOT of good loot, is what i am trying to say.

From what i saw, truly rare items in TL2 have no power equivalent in D3. It is an item, not only class specific, but build specific. (ex.: Dual pistol wielding outlander will not get great benefit from red shotgonne and vice versa.) Once i will get an item like that, i am almost guaranteed that, if it does not work with one of my already built characters, i will make one to use it. And since you cannot respec in TL2, you need to make a whole new character for it. D2 style.

So the loot IS indeed more rewarding. So much so, that a single drop can motivate you to spend hundred hours just to prepare yourself to use an that kind of awesome.
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01/21/2013 12:48 PMPosted by Vladis
about 80 hours playing TL2. I have made 4 different characters


01/21/2013 12:48 PMPosted by Vladis
amount of time playing D3. close to 700 hours


01/21/2013 12:48 PMPosted by Vladis
So the loot IS indeed more rewarding


Are you really comparing a 700 hours experience to a 80 one?

This is the main mistake you all commit.
It's pretty easy to say that is "more rewarding" after 1/10 of time played compared to Diablo 3.
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Are you really comparing a 700 hours experience to a 80 one?

This is the main mistake you all commit.
It's pretty easy to say that is "more rewarding" after 1/10 of time played compared to Diablo 3.


Well, i find that i did have more fun within 80 initial hours of TL2 compared to D3.
The game got plain to me during A3 normal. Boring by A3-4 hell, farmin azmo trying to break into inferno.

Realizing that end game is something that i have already experienced 3 times, with higher damage and HP, which would be mitigated by higher personal DPS and defense of my own, failing to see the difference between Hell and Inferno modes completely, if gear is taken out of equation. TL2 end game has modified dungeons and modding support to make endgame appealing and fresh even after NG+.

It is pretty easy cut out random sentences out of the quote, take it out of context, disregard the whole idea of the post and say "this is the main mistake we all commit"
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Are you really comparing a 700 hours experience to a 80 one?

This is the main mistake you all commit.
It's pretty easy to say that is "more rewarding" after 1/10 of time played compared to Diablo 3.


It doesn't matter how long you play the game. The loot is just flat out better.

YOUR mistake is that you look at an extremely small part of the loot and damn the rest of the loot based on that extremely small part. It's ridiculous, insultingly narrow minded and flat out wrong.
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01/21/2013 03:08 PMPosted by Ringo
It doesn't matter how long you play the game


It's not really objective to sentence in forums that TL2 is more rewarding only after few hours of gameplay.
It's not fair, and maybe it's wrong.

01/21/2013 01:30 PMPosted by Vladis
It is pretty easy cut out random sentences out of the quote, take it out of context, disregard the whole idea of the post and say "this is the main mistake we all commit"


It is pretty easy to cut all things about maths that i posted and sentence that TL2 is better even if end-game is completly unknow to all of you.
You can't just compare the "rewarding" system of two games considering D3 inferno after 600 hours and more of gameplay and TL2, for just the levelling part.
It's just fanboyism. Come on.
Edited by ILGiudice#2597 on 1/21/2013 3:43 PM PST
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